Westover is top choice in magnet school lottery

Interested Parent wrote:

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What is your take on moving the Rogers school into EMS? I have a feeling your were on the BOE when the EMS plan was developed and might have been a part of developing the plan and I'm wondering what your position is.

i think the board has to make that decision based on all the information before them. i am trying to clarify some issues and explain some background with some objectivity to reduce the level of anger and misinformation. If i take positions on specific issues, i lose that.

i will say that the BOE has received VERY mixed messages from the State Education dept. about several aspects of the EMS.

Publius wrote:

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i think the board has to make that decision based on all the information before them. i am trying to clarify some issues and explain some background with some objectivity to reduce the level of anger and misinformation. If i take positions on specific issues, i lose that.
i will say that the BOE has received VERY mixed messages from the State Education dept. about several aspects of the EMS.

I agree and that's why I asked you the question. I was at the meeting when Mr. Magnotta from State Dept of Ed spoke about what could and could not be done with EMS. Then, two months later Dr. Starr and the Mayor have a different take.

I understand the Meadowpark families didn't receive the list with their addresses until Saturday, 1/19 and they only had 3 days to pull something together over a long, Martin Luther King, weekend.

They had to ask the BoE for the information, it was not made public as if someone was trying to pull one over on them...

What a shame, they did a nice job of pulling the neighbhorhood together, you have to hand it to whom ever it was that did that...

Redistricted parent wrote:

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Curious...did you buy a home in the meadowpark area because of the school district?
By the way...on Jan 15, no one in the Meadowpark area knew. The BOE put together the resolution on Jan 16 without a public hearing and voted on it Jan 22. The Meadowpark families found out on the evening of Jan 18. FOUR days before the vote. We did our best to get the word out and get support but ultimately the BOE had made their decision before the first Meadowpark parent spoke.

Yes and let's not forget about overcrowding with out of districted kids. There should be no reason why anyone should not go to their own districted school. Under normal circumstances most wouldn't object but when it messes with the balance of the school and the schools become heavily out of balance then most would/should have a problem with out of district attending their schools.

The out of district kids should return to their own school, especially if the redistricted kids are being forced to change schools.

As far as the BoE redistricting, of course I realize it needs to be done but how about this suggestion, the BoE has a forum/meeting and says this school (Hart, Rogers, etc..) is over populated with "disadvantaged" and we need to increase the "advantaged", they could plug their program and then ask those interested in attending to sign up right there and then.

If that doesn't solve the problem then mention that the attendence zone needs to be expanded.

The way this redistricting has been going on is not right.......The Boe promises to be more transparent and that's great they should but what about the areas that have already been redistricted, there has been a lot said about how the badly handled it has been....

Let's reverse everything and start over with an open forum with everyone involved, it's only fair...

If the Boe is afraid of looking "undecisive" then that's their ego problem not a concern for the general public....

Publius wrote:

Nobody is being forced to do anything "against their will". Every community has to deal with assigning students to schools on some basis. The most common basis is by street. But when schools become unbalanced, whether racially or socio-economically in some communities, or just by student capacity in every community, a community has to take action to correct the situation.
Whenever a community, through its school board, acts to "redistrict" students, the parents of those redistricted students object, often vociferously. They have every right to object. But a BOE has a responsibility to redistrict to correct overcrowding or to correct poorly balanced populations. Stamford should not be solving overcrowding problems by continually adding portable classrooms top some schools, while other schools have plenty of room.
Almost every community has districted its schools to assign students by street. To cal that "forcing students to go to a school against their free will" would mean that over 90% of students in this country are going to a school against their free will.
Although there were times when i felt my parents were sending me to school against my free will, im not sure that is the same idea.

I know that now. My point is that I went to the open house for every magnet school, and never once was it mentioned that I would be locked out based on my current district. I think most people would agree that there is a lot of room for improvement in the communication of these critical points. Burying it two pages deep in the SPS website is not the way. Also, the website never listed which districts were locked out. That was not communicated to us until the day of the lottery, and that is too late.

Stamford parent wrote:

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If you think there is a lack of communication as far as the lottery goes you should have read about it on the SPS website:
http://stamfordpublicschools.org/content/64/1...

Hmmm wrote:

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Do you have a child in Newfield now?
Meadowpark is still fighting this...

And my kids will graduate form Newfield unless the National Guard comes to move them. I had never even been to Adams Street until I attend a very nice open house at Hart. I was lovely but I after attend BOE meeting down there I NOT sending my 5 year old there ON AN UNNECESSARY BUS!\

Duped wrote:

I know that now. My point is that I went to the open house for every magnet school, and never once was it mentioned that I would be locked out based on my current district. I think most people would agree that there is a lot of room for improvement in the communication of these critical points. Burying it two pages deep in the SPS website is not the way. Also, the website never listed which districts were locked out. That was not communicated to us until the day of the lottery, and that is too late.
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Duped you are right. The site does not list which school districts would be locked out and I've attened every redistricting meeting in 08 and heard brief mention of the lock out not specifics.

Yes wrote:

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And my kids will graduate form Newfield unless the National Guard comes to move them. I had never even been to Adams Street until I attend a very nice open house at Hart. I was lovely but I after attend BOE meeting down there I NOT sending my 5 year old there ON AN UNNECESSARY BUS!\

Amen. I hope that you are with the Meadowpark group and attend the meetings with us. If not, please come, we need all the voices we can.

interested wrote:

Yes and let's not forget about overcrowding with out of districted kids. There should be no reason why anyone should not go to their own districted school. Under normal circumstances most wouldn't object but when it messes with the balance of the school and the schools become heavily out of balance then most would/should have a problem with out of district attending their schools.

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Actually, there are many reasons why children might not go to their neighborhood school. Here are a few: special programs not offered at their neighborhood school; family moved mid year or just before 5th grade; special facilities available; child care arrangements; individual social conflicts at their neighborhood school. All Stamford schools have some students that are districted to another school. The idea is that the child's welfare comes first, and accommodations are made for individuals.

That does not mean that some parents don't manipulate the system by falsifiying information to get their child into a "better" or more convenient school, but that is hard to prove. IF all the schools were more balanced, and were perceived to be of equal quality, that might happen less. e.g., there is NO empirical evidence whatever that Newfield is a "better" school than Stark; the widespread perception appears to be related solely to the racial and socio-economic makeup of the two schools.

The important point, though, is that the receiving school has a choice and in most cases can refuse a child from another district if the receiving school is overcrowded or imbalanced. If a principal feels "flattered" by transfer requests and accepts them all, that may create a problem.

Publius wrote:

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..........there is NO empirical evidence whatever that Newfield is a "better" school than Stark; the widespread perception appears to be related solely to the racial and socio-economic makeup of the two schools..........

FINALLY, I have been waiting for this statement from you. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!! Trust this statement please. He knows of what he speaks.

Publius wrote:

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And although any individual child, no matter how poor, can accomplish great things, and no matter how rich can do poorly in school, the FACTS are clear: there is a very high correlation between poverty and poor performance in school, and between not speaking English at home, and poor performance in school. And concentrating all the poor or non-english speaking children in a few schools, and all the children with financially strong well-educated families in a few other schools, will generally yield uneven results.
We certainly hear plenty from parents whose children may be redistricted to "downtown" schools about their objections to that.

Pubilius how do you figure that Newfield with a mostly advantaged school population actually did very poorly on the 2007 CMT results? They were place 11 on 5th grade overall math scores, place 6th in writing and place 10 in reading. Their 2006 test scores didn't look that much better either. And they have a pretty low number of kids in the advanced category. About half the number for example than Northeast has.

redistricting soap opera wrote:

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Pubilius how do you figure that Newfield with a mostly advantaged school population actually did very poorly on the 2007 CMT results? They were place 11 on 5th grade overall math scores, place 6th in writing and place 10 in reading. Their 2006 test scores didn't look that much better either. And they have a pretty low number of kids in the advanced category. About half the number for example than Northeast has.

Precisely why it seemed so unfair that Stark should be the school to close. Similar test scores with VASTLY different populations. Hmmmmmmmm whattup Newfield?

Forgive me for sounding so heartless but why does someone else's childcare problems become my problem or the school's problem?

My districted school is overcrowded and primarily "advantaged" and others are allowed in simply by filling out an application. What heartless Principal would say no to that? None I'm sure.

Then one applicatant turns into 2 and then 4, etc...and before you know it there's a problem and then neighborhoods are redistricted because of the overcrowding...

These Meadowpark/Stillmeadow families bought homes in a very nice neighbhorhood so they could attend a nice neighbhorhood school. That was their choice and privelage.

Why should that neighbhorhood or any other have to suffer from redistricting for something they had nothing to do with?

Shouldn't those out of district families be asked to leave first before any districted families are shipped off to other schools? That makes sense to me OR does out of district status carry more weight than a districted family??? Does the principal's signature on a piece of paper carry more weight?

Please help me understand this, I'm confused...

Publius wrote:

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Actually, there are many reasons why children might not go to their neighborhood school. Here are a few: special programs not offered at their neighborhood school; family moved mid year or just before 5th grade; special facilities available; child care arrangements; individual social conflicts at their neighborhood school. All Stamford schools have some students that are districted to another school. The idea is that the child's welfare comes first, and accommodations are made for individuals.
That does not mean that some parents don't manipulate the system by falsifiying information to get their child into a "better" or more convenient school, but that is hard to prove. IF all the schools were more balanced, and were perceived to be of equal quality, that might happen less. e.g., there is NO empirical evidence whatever that Newfield is a "better" school than Stark; the widespread perception appears to be related solely to the racial and socio-economic makeup of the two schools.
The important point, though, is that the receiving school has a choice and in most cases can refuse a child from another district if the receiving school is overcrowded or imbalanced. If a principal feels "flattered" by transfer requests and accepts them all, that may create a problem.

Interested, as you said of the Meadowpark/Stillmeadow families, we all bought our homes in "very nice neighborhoods" so our children "could attend very nice neighborhood schools". However, some of these neighborhoods have changed or been developed over the years, bringing new populations with different backgrounds, skills, parental involvement, etc., into our schools. So no neighborhood should, as you said "suffer from redistricting for something they had nothing to do with." But redistricting has been talked about for at least the past ten years. When I first started looking to move out of NYC in 1998, long before I was even thinking about having children, I learned then that redistricting was on the table in Stamford, so this really can not come as a shock to any of us.

The fact is, we all bought our homes in the district of the STAMFORD PUBLIC SCHOOLS. My taxes do not only go to fund the education for my children, they go to pay for the education of ALL the children of Stamford: yours, your neighbors, my neighbors, children on my kids soccer team or your child's baseball team, the autistic boy down the block, the child with such severe health issues he cannot be left unattended ever, etc. We do not pay simply for the Newfield school district, or the Northeast school district, nor can we separate out paying just for children who don't need extra help because their parents don't speak English at home, or children who are learning-disabled, or autistic, or have special health needs. We are residents of Stamford, not of one particular elementary school.

Another SPS parent wrote:

Interested, as you said of the Meadowpark/Stillmeadow families, we all bought our homes in "very nice neighborhoods" so our children "could attend very nice neighborhood schools". However, some of these neighborhoods have changed or been developed over the years, bringing new populations with different backgrounds, skills, parental involvement, etc., into our schools. So no neighborhood should, as you said "suffer from redistricting for something they had nothing to do with." But redistricting has been talked about for at least the past ten years. When I first started looking to move out of NYC in 1998, long before I was even thinking about having children, I learned then that redistricting was on the table in Stamford, so this really can not come as a shock to any of us.
The fact is, we all bought our homes in the district of the STAMFORD PUBLIC SCHOOLS. My taxes do not only go to fund the education for my children, they go to pay for the education of ALL the children of Stamford: yours, your neighbors, my neighbors, children on my kids soccer team or your child's baseball team, the autistic boy down the block, the child with such severe health issues he cannot be left unattended ever, etc. We do not pay simply for the Newfield school district, or the Northeast school district, nor can we separate out paying just for children who don't need extra help because their parents don't speak English at home, or children who are learning-disabled, or autistic, or have special health needs. We are residents of Stamford, not of one particular elementary school.

Gee, you expressed that well. "Redistricting" occurs occasionally in almost every school district with multiple schools at a level. Just a few years ago, New Canaan went through an elementary redistricting process, and it generated just as much anger and emotion as Stamford's do. And most of the same arguments.

Your point is well taken. Children in Stamford are entitled to an education within Stamford. Nobody "owns" a right to attend the school they personally select just because it is close or was once districted for their street.

Nobody can count on their home staying forever in the same school district. And anyone who buys a home expecting never to be redistricted is foolish.

so right wrote:

<quoted text>Especially when you realize the cold hard fact that 16 outta 20 Stamford schools are quote-unquote "failing". Get over it. A smart kid is a smart kid ANYWHERE you put him/her. It all begins at home. Being involved at your child's school is the single best thing you can do for them. Not filling out a lottery application.

No one is saying one school is better than another My children would do just as well at Northeast, Stark, Hart,Westover..... Like you said almost all the schools are failing but I can tell you from experience it is much easier to be involved in your school if you're not 4+ miles away. Not saying that you wouldn't be involved but if definitely makes it more difficult.

Well, yes, it does make it more difficult to be involved if you live far away from your child's school. Sad, then, that the people who tend to bear the brunt of long bus rides out of their neighborhoods are the poor and/or minority children who live in neighborhoods whose schools were closed years ago.

And yes, possibly some of the longest bus rides are suffered by the extreme North Stamford kids to their North Stamford schools, but remember, their parents chose to live way up there near Pound Ridge and presumably like the isolation in that neck of the woods. Plus, they probably all have cars and $$ for gas to get to and from their schools. They don't have to rely on an inadequate public bus system.

SPS parent wrote:

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No one is saying one school is better than another My children would do just as well at Northeast, Stark, Hart,Westover..... Like you said almost all the schools are failing but I can tell you from experience it is much easier to be involved in your school if you're not 4+ miles away. Not saying that you wouldn't be involved but if definitely makes it more difficult.

Point well taken, thank you. I do feel for your concerns here because I personally wanted as close a school as possible to avoid the bus and be able to get to the school in five minutes. Yes, it has been a blessing (think bomb threats and bloody noses). I have no data but assume that distance will dictate precious time spent getting involved at the school, especially if you have an employer breathing down your neck!

interested wrote:

These Meadowpark/Stillmeadow families bought homes in a very nice neighbhorhood so they could attend a nice neighbhorhood school. That was their choice and privelage.
Why should that neighbhorhood or any other have to suffer from redistricting for something they had nothing to do with?
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Here's the thing. Stamford is made up of several nice neighborhoods. I lived in Hubbard Heights for quite a while and it's adorable, safe and indeed a "nice neighborhood." It's also districted to Hart.
Meadow Park seems to be a neighborhood on the verge of renewal, which is good for everyone. But it doesn't strike me as any nicer or any worse than half a dozen other "nice neighborhoods" within a 5 mile radius.
I get it that the Meadow Park families are in limbo and want to have decisions. But I am getting tired of reading dumb rhetoric on these message boards.

Yes, you are correct there are many very nice/desirable neighbhorhoods over Stamford, yours, ours and others...

We all make a choice to live somewhere, some put much thought while others land where they land and are blessed or angered by their decision.

Not the case with Meadowpark as I'm sure it's the same with you and your neighbhorhood.

All I can say is that perhaps your neighborhood has not been effected by redistricing yet or perhaps it may never be, the hurtful part about this whole mess is that it has to be done and a lot of innocent victims, the children, will have to suffer by changing schools.

I have spoken to many long time Stamfordites, if I may call them that and everyone has a tale to tell how they were "victims, they were yanked" from their beloved school and placed somewhere else.....no one says oh yes, I didn't mind switching schools, please!!!

I feel that with the current type of redistricting, and the way in which it was done, remember there has been a lot said about how this was handled, it does nothing but harbor hositlity.........

Perhaps the current BoE could again reconsidering stopping the current redistricting process and start over by closing a school in 60 days as is the new plan and then redistricting the neighbhorhoods with input from all.

Just a suggestion.

many good neighborhoods wrote:

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Here's the thing. Stamford is made up of several nice neighborhoods. I lived in Hubbard Heights for quite a while and it's adorable, safe and indeed a "nice neighborhood." It's also districted to Hart.
Meadow Park seems to be a neighborhood on the verge of renewal, which is good for everyone. But it doesn't strike me as any nicer or any worse than half a dozen other "nice neighborhoods" within a 5 mile radius.
I get it that the Meadow Park families are in limbo and want to have decisions. But I am getting tired of reading dumb rhetoric on these message boards.