Education Etc.
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SP Thinker
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Clarification - STOP holding boys the same academic standards, should have said, "behavioral and academic" standards. Of course girls are typically better behaved in school. DUH!!!
Boys like to run, play tag, throw things, jump around, build and then tear apart.....
And the worse part about this...is after dealing with this c.r.a.p. for SIX or SEVEN hours a day, they are sent home with TWO HOURS OF HOMEWORK. Bravo!!!
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really
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SP Thinker wrote: Well let's see...where to begin.
STOP telling parents/kids these boys have ADD/ADHD and medicating them beginning in the 1st grade! Boys are more restless than girls, have more energy and in general need to move around more and not be confined to a seat for 6 hours a day.
STOP letting girls wear whatever the h.e.l.l. they want (i.e. scantily clad clothes) to school, where these poor boys are being bombarded with "sex" in an environment where they are supposed to LEARN...and then they are constantly told to suppress their own sexuality.
HIRE more men teachers, so these boys actually have men to ineract with, hopefully men who understand what it means to be a boy or young man.....and then perhaps can be a role model to them. Many of the boys in the failing schools have no father at home..and being around nothing but women all day long IS NOT healthy for them.
STOP holding boys to the same academic standard for girls, particularly in the area of language arts. In general, boys will NOT develop their social skills, writing and reading skills as fast as girls. Boys and their parents are told from a very early age they are falling behind...and then the extra homework, after school tutoring and summer school starts...poor kids. I'd be sick of school too by the 10th grade if I had it crammed down my throat like that.
START developing classes that are more appealing to boys. Stop making them dance and recite frickin poetry about "feelings".
CREATE all boy classes, if necessary, where the pressures of girls and what they look like, or how "stupid" a boy might feel if he speaks out and is wrong in front of a girl aren't there. This would help girls too!
STOP canceling boys programs (a direct result of Title IX!) These boys NEED their sports programs and NEED time to be just around BOYS...and there is NO reason why a program can't be developed just because it isn't available for girls. Yes, boys need it FAR more than girls and I couldn't care any less about disagreers.
Wake up PEOPLE! If girls were dropping out at the rate of boys, it would be considered the great school crisis since segregation and it would make the FRONT page of EVERY newspaper until someone stood up and did something about it!
My caveat - CLEARLY a strong family is paramount to a child's success in school - but these efforts would certainly help!
<quoted text> Hey, there is nothing wrong with poetry. Some of our greatest poets were men. Boys should not be taught that poetry or songwriting, which is just poetry set to music, is not manly enough. And lay off the dancing, too. Dancing is great for fitness and teaches cordination, balance and flexibilty. Many professional athletes also dance, they just don't talk about it much because people will say it's not masculine. I agree with you that what some of these girls wear is just scary, but I have news, the mothers are involved, too. I have worked in a retail environment that will go unnamed and heard teens and preteens object to short skirts and showing too much skin, only to hear their mothers say "But, honey, it's so cute!" Boys do develop some language skills later and that's something that absolutely needs to be considered, but that's no reason to let them off the hook. The younger you are when you acquire language, especially a second language, the easier it is because that's the way human brains are wired. Regardless of sex, different people learn best with different methods. If schools had classes that were a reasonable size, teachers could accomodate that. Unfortunately when you are faced with 35 kids and mandatory state testing there's only so much that can be done.
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really
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And you're also right that there are WAY too many kids that are medicated for what's actually normal kid behavior.
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Katie
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SP Thinker wrote: Well let's see...where to begin.
STOP telling parents/kids these boys have ADD/ADHD and medicating them beginning in the 1st grade! Boys are more restless than girls, have more energy and in general need to move around more and not be confined to a seat for 6 hours a day.
STOP letting girls wear whatever the h.e.l.l. they want (i.e. scantily clad clothes) to school, where these poor boys are being bombarded with "sex" in an environment where they are supposed to LEARN...and then they are constantly told to suppress their own sexuality.
HIRE more men teachers, so these boys actually have men to ineract with, hopefully men who understand what it means to be a boy or young man.....and then perhaps can be a role model to them. Many of the boys in the failing schools have no father at home..and being around nothing but women all day long IS NOT healthy for them.
STOP holding boys to the same academic standard for girls, particularly in the area of language arts. In general, boys will NOT develop their social skills, writing and reading skills as fast as girls. Boys and their parents are told from a very early age they are falling behind...and then the extra homework, after school tutoring and summer school starts...poor kids. I'd be sick of school too by the 10th grade if I had it crammed down my throat like that.
START developing classes that are more appealing to boys. Stop making them dance and recite frickin poetry about "feelings".
CREATE all boy classes, if necessary, where the pressures of girls and what they look like, or how "stupid" a boy might feel if he speaks out and is wrong in front of a girl aren't there. This would help girls too!
STOP canceling boys programs (a direct result of Title IX!) These boys NEED their sports programs and NEED time to be just around BOYS...and there is NO reason why a program can't be developed just because it isn't available for girls. Yes, boys need it FAR more than girls and I couldn't care any less about disagreers.
Wake up PEOPLE! If girls were dropping out at the rate of boys, it would be considered the great school crisis since segregation and it would make the FRONT page of EVERY newspaper until someone stood up and did something about it!
My caveat - CLEARLY a strong family is paramount to a child's success in school - but these efforts would certainly help!
<quoted text> With all that in mind, I would TOTALLY support an "all boys" and "all girls" school within LAUSD. Where and when can I sign the petition?
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SP Thinker
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Thank you! One day I hope to be able to do something! Katie wrote: <quoted text>
With all that in mind, I would TOTALLY support an "all boys" and "all girls" school within LAUSD. Where and when can I sign the petition?
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SP Thinker
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Welcome Back! Yes, I agree there is nothing wrong with poetry, but do you realize how agonizing it is for most boys to have to recite poems about "feelings" or beauty of a "sunset" or watching a flower grow? I mean, why not make girls recite poems about the fears and realities of war or the greatness of tackle football? I absolutely believe they should be exposed to poetry, albeit, exposure is a lot different than treating it as an actual academic curriculum. And you are right, there is nothing wrong with dancing either...something else boys should be exposed too and perhaps I should have left that out...maybe it was a poor example. I loved the square dancing as a kid. However, it is by and large mostly enjoyed by girls, unless of course, your boy is quite the "ladies" man or class clown with a volunteer of partners. There is nothing wrong with football either, or boxing - but we don't force girls to do these things. On the clothing issue - you are right, unfortunately mothers (and fathers) play a role. But the school can enforce dress codes. There should not be cleavage, thong exposure, and short miniskirts in schools. And, boys should not be let off the hook with language arts (which I'm sure you know doesn't mean speaking a language, but the writing, spelling and reading thereof).....I just don't think they should be held to the same standard as girls. At least three of my son's teachers tried telling me that "he wasn't reading so many words per minute, but look, our highest reader in the class is at "so many". Much to their surprise that I would ask, is it a girl? In fact, I would ask if the top 5 or 10 in the class were girls? And in fact, I was correct. Then, his handwriting - "look at how neat this paper is"..or "look at this spelling", etc. And again, examples from girls. And the one example that came from a boy, was the exception. Come to find out my son was average or above average for boys. And it wasn't just me...my nephew, my son's friends, my neighbors......most every parent of boy heard this speech at some time or another. I'm glad we agree on the overdiagnosing and medicating of children. What amazes me is the parents that go along with it - perhaps it makes their job easier too...just give him a pill and he won't be such a handful. I know the teachers love it....don't have to deal with the natural energy of boys. Too bad really. really wrote: <quoted text>
Unfortunately when you are faced with 35 kids and mandatory state testing there's only so much that can be done.
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really
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SP Thinker wrote: Welcome Back!
Yes, I agree there is nothing wrong with poetry, but do you realize how agonizing it is for most boys to have to recite poems about "feelings" or beauty of a "sunset" or watching a flower grow?
I mean, why not make girls recite poems about the fears and realities of war or the greatness of tackle football?
I absolutely believe they should be exposed to poetry, albeit, exposure is a lot different than treating it as an actual academic curriculum.
And you are right, there is nothing wrong with dancing either...something else boys should be exposed too and perhaps I should have left that out...maybe it was a poor example. I loved the square dancing as a kid.
However, it is by and large mostly enjoyed by girls, unless of course, your boy is quite the "ladies" man or class clown with a volunteer of partners. There is nothing wrong with football either, or boxing - but we don't force girls to do these things.
On the clothing issue - you are right, unfortunately mothers (and fathers) play a role. But the school can enforce dress codes. There should not be cleavage, thong exposure, and short miniskirts in schools.
And, boys should not be let off the hook with language arts (which I'm sure you know doesn't mean speaking a language, but the writing, spelling and reading thereof).....I just don't think they should be held to the same standard as girls. At least three of my son's teachers tried telling me that "he wasn't reading so many words per minute, but look, our highest reader in the class is at "so many". Much to their surprise that I would ask, is it a girl? In fact, I would ask if the top 5 or 10 in the class were girls? And in fact, I was correct.
Then, his handwriting - "look at how neat this paper is"..or "look at this spelling", etc. And again, examples from girls. And the one example that came from a boy, was the exception. Come to find out my son was average or above average for boys. And it wasn't just me...my nephew, my son's friends, my neighbors......most every parent of boy heard this speech at some time or another.
I'm glad we agree on the overdiagnosing and medicating of children. What amazes me is the parents that go along with it - perhaps it makes their job easier too...just give him a pill and he won't be such a handful. I know the teachers love it....don't have to deal with the natural energy of boys.
Too bad really.
<quoted text> Oh, there's lot's of war poetry in the schools and novels, too. Red Badge of Courage is still required reading. Love poetry (and songs) may be a bit much for the lower grades, but it's certianly applicable to middle schoolers and high schools.Are you suggesting we teach boys to stifle and deny feelings? Besides, poetry is an excellent teaching tool in that it is highly disciplined and structured, unlike prose where you can pretty much do as you like as long as your syntax works. Poetry requires analysis to be fully understood because it is, by nature, compact and indirect, a code, if you will. I would think it would appeal to boys on that level, even if you insist they have no appreciation for beauty. Yes, I know what you meant by the language arts, my point is that even the basics of the written ones are best reinforced at as early an age as is practical, when the brain is most plastic in those areas. Writing skills improve over time, but getting the basics in early is key. If your teacher was telling you your boys were behind because the girls were doing better in early grades at penmanship and reading then that teacher wasn't doing the job right. Maybe things are different now, but I recall being forced to participate in organized sports and played flag football in PE. I am all about schoool uniforms, frankly. Solves a lot of issues.
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really
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One more thing,regardless of content, most KIDS find it agonizing to have to recite anything in front of their peers. It has nothing to do with flowers and sunsets and everything to do with your classmates and teacher watching you.
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SP Thinker
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I don't think we should teach boys to deny their feelings, but force it out of them?...well, I say no to that too.
I'll say this about poetry - it is just one aspect of the whole environment. So, isolated, maybe it wouldn't seem like such a big deal, you certainly have valid points,....but poetry combined with everything else, just makes the whole environment seem anti-boy.
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really
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SP Thinker wrote: I don't think we should teach boys to deny their feelings, but force it out of them?...well, I say no to that too.
I'll say this about poetry - it is just one aspect of the whole environment. So, isolated, maybe it wouldn't seem like such a big deal, you certainly have valid points,....but poetry combined with everything else, just makes the whole environment seem anti-boy. Oh I think force is an awfully strong word. Let's face it, kids don't like to do a lot of things. They don't want to go to school or do their homework, brush their teeth, take a bath, eat vegetables, comb their hair, wear shoes, share their toys or be prevented from picking their noses in public. We make them do these things. We make them study math and learn to read because it is good for them. We make them stand up in front of their class and recite because public speaking is a good skill. It won't kill boys to work harder at reading and take home ec. and it won't kill girls to work harder at math and take woodshop. It's good for them.
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SP Thinker
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It's not the public speaking being "forced" that I was talking about, that I agree with...it is uncomfortable, yet necessary, for all kids...so why make it worse by having them talk about (or recite) things that make them more uncomfortable....again, particularly boys. I just can't imagine having girls stand up there and talk about their menstrual cycle in front of a class, and yes, for someone boys, being forced to recite certain "feelings, lovey, feel-good" based poetry is just as bad.....and oh my goodness, imagine once they are laughed at!!!! And the examples you quote are necessary for all kids (hygiene, bedtime, etc.), yes, we as their parents know what is best for them...but you must take the position that all things a teacher does in the classroom is best for all kids. I don't take that position, and therein lies our difference. And finally, whether someone kills my kid or not, is not the problem. We here in California cram the most work down these children's throats and have the worse results, you'd think someone would catch on. Something isn't working. it's a combination of things, no doubt....but too much homework just deteriorates my family time. I for one, enjoy playing monopoly or reading with my kid, and I resent 2-3 hours of homework, that even if I dont' help him with, certainly ties up his time so he can't spend time with his family, which I feel is FAR more important than any homework assignment. But, I would like to say that you can make someone "work harder" at anything you want, but if they aren't ready, they aren't ready. Period.... and I would ask, "why the rush". it's crazy to take 35 different kids (or millions on a national level) and expect them to learn things at the same time. really wrote: <quoted text>
Oh I think force is an awfully strong word. Let's face it, kids don't like to do a lot of things. They don't want to go to school or do their homework, brush their teeth, take a bath, eat vegetables, comb their hair, wear shoes, share their toys or be prevented from picking their noses in public. We make them do these things. We make them study math and learn to read because it is good for them. We make them stand up in front of their class and recite because public speaking is a good skill. It won't kill boys to work harder at reading and take home ec. and it won't kill girls to work harder at math and take woodshop. It's good for them.
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SP Thinker
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clarification...I meant "something kills", not someone kills. ;-(
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really
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SP Thinker wrote: clarification...I meant "something kills", not someone kills. ;-( Yeah, I figured that.:) The crux of the problem here is the class size. Smaller classes means more individal attention and more talioring to individual learning needs, sex-related or not. The truth is that while you can generalize about boys are better at this and girls are better at that, that's exactly the kind of generalization that causes problems, ie your observation that teachers are using what you consider a girl-centered curriculum. That's one learning style imposed on a whole group when you should be able to tailor things more, because individual kids are not expressions of generalities. They are individuals. Okay, girls don't have to recite poetry about their cycle (is there any?) but hey, it is equally humiliating to do those Presidential physical fitness trails. Girls run crying to the bathroom after utterly failing at the pullup, a test of upper body strength that's totally inappropriate for young girls, especially as they start to develop breasts. Hey girls, you are just starting to show, lets have you put you hands over your head and try to pull up your body weight while the class watches you, waiting for their turn. This on top of the normal shaming associated with team sports and being told, often by your teachers, that girls aren't good at science or math. See? A special humiliation for both sexes. And yes, 3 hours of homework is excessive and it's a product of the incredibly misguided and ironically named no child left behind program, possibly the single worst idea in education since "whole word" reading.
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SP Thinker
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I agree with you completely on the crux of the problem......and I would add that all boy and all girl classes is a good idea too, particularly for some subjects. The p.e. thing - that's true. I remember that.... ...boys have a hard time with that too though - because of the "posturing" boys do in front of other boys. But no doubt that for many girls, puberty is a time where embarrassment comes easy.....remember snapping bras. i'll admit however, many girls enjoyed the sudden attention from boys, including myself. i may not have completely understood it, but i certainly enjoyed having more attention, even sometimes, yes, snap my bra.... For the record, I don't think teachers should tell students that one sex or another is better at specific subject persay (I say persay to leave room for exceptions), but, I just think teachers should acknowledge the differences and keep it in the back of their heads and grade/coach/tutor/encourage accordingly. There is a real problem with the education administrators too..and the unions (a whole 'nuther topic).....I do think that teachers are not given much control over their own classrooms. no child left behind - i think we had problems long before then....standardized testing, national comparisons, quotas, etc...those things hurt our teachers abilities to teach effectively...... the control needs to be strongest at the school level, and trickle, i mean, trickle up and end perhaps at a district or worse, state level.....but federally? the dept. of ed - HUGE waste of money. does absolutely no good whatsoever... really wrote: <quoted text>
Yeah, I figured that.:)
The crux of the problem here is the class size. Smaller classes means more individal attention and more talioring to individual learning needs, sex-related or not. The truth is that while you can generalize about boys are better at this and girls are better at that, that's exactly the kind of generalization that causes problems, ie your observation that teachers are using what you consider a girl-centered curriculum. That's one learning style imposed on a whole group when you should be able to tailor things more, because individual kids are not expressions of generalities. They are individuals.
Okay, girls don't have to recite poetry about their cycle (is there any?) but hey, it is equally humiliating to do those Presidential physical fitness trails. Girls run crying to the bathroom after utterly failing at the pullup, a test of upper body strength that's totally inappropriate for young girls, especially as they start to develop breasts. Hey girls, you are just starting to show, lets have you put you hands over your head and try to pull up your body weight while the class watches you, waiting for their turn. This on top of the normal shaming associated with team sports and being told, often by your teachers, that girls aren't good at science or math. See? A special humiliation for both sexes.
And yes, 3 hours of homework is excessive and it's a product of the incredibly misguided and ironically named no child left behind program, possibly the single worst idea in education since "whole word" reading.
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really
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SP Thinker wrote: I agree with you completely on the crux of the problem......and I would add that all boy and all girl classes is a good idea too, particularly for some subjects.
The p.e. thing - that's true. I remember that....
...boys have a hard time with that too though - because of the "posturing" boys do in front of other boys.
But no doubt that for many girls, puberty is a time where embarrassment comes easy.....remember snapping bras. i'll admit however, many girls enjoyed the sudden attention from boys, including myself. i may not have completely understood it, but i certainly enjoyed having more attention, even sometimes, yes, snap my bra....
For the record, I don't think teachers should tell students that one sex or another is better at specific subject persay (I say persay to leave room for exceptions), but, I just think teachers should acknowledge the differences and keep it in the back of their heads and grade/coach/tutor/encourage accordingly.
There is a real problem with the education administrators too..and the unions (a whole 'nuther topic).....I do think that teachers are not given much control over their own classrooms.
no child left behind - i think we had problems long before then....standardized testing, national comparisons, quotas, etc...those things hurt our teachers abilities to teach effectively......
the control needs to be strongest at the school level, and trickle, i mean, trickle up and end perhaps at a district or worse, state level.....but federally?
the dept. of ed - HUGE waste of money. does absolutely no good whatsoever...
<quoted text> Okay, we,ve now reached common ground and total agreement. See you on the next board! ;)
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really
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Except for the snapping the bra thing. I hated that.
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Suppress
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Katie wrote: I have an idea ... how about sending the "Anchor Babies" and their parents back to their countries of origin. That would reduce the overcrowding in the existing schools.
Why is the LAUSD wasting money attempting to educate kids who will end up dropping out of school anyway? The money should be spent on kids who value education. The money should be spent on kids who will grow up to contribute to society. The money should NOT be spent on kids who will end up shooting eachother and/or dropping out of school. What a waste!!! Just tell us all how you know who will or will not shoot each other, or who will or will not value education?? I did not drop out of school, and I grew up in a bad neighborhood. Wouldn't the world be great if we can know everyone? Well I can't and neither can you......Your one of the biggest idiots ever, I have read stupid comments, but this is just WACK!
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Judge it!
Gemini
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