Do you know the history of where you live?

Dear readers this discussion might be one of the spookiest ever on this forum if you follow this discussion as i post it over a period of days all will be revealed.I live in rural Middleton out side of Manchester.My house that i live in was a farmhouse it was built in 1860.My home and my land and the surrounding farms are built on a battle field from the civil war.The local farmers to this day still plough up cannon balls and find musket balls on their land.My house was built in 1860 on the spot of another farmhouse that was built in 1790 that farmhouse caught fire in 1858 killing all that lived there.In my home in 1877 there was a murder and suicide the farmer that lived there shot his wife and turn the gun on himself.Then in 1901 the next occupant of the farm murdered his wife and was hanged at HMP Manchester.I work at HMP Manchester that is my place of work.How many people do you know that live in a place where somebody committed a murder and work in the place they were executed in? My home stands on the site of an old farmhall that stood from 1430 until 1790 this place is steeped in history and i mean hitory.

Also from 1974-1982 i lived down Ancoates my old school every street was haunted well the play ground was.That was because in 1870 the river Medlock flooded due to heavy rain that went on for days and days.The river burst its banks and swept across Philips park cemetery a mile or so away from my old primary school.Bodies were up lifted from their graves and washed down river.On the corner of Every street where the river Medlock turns some of the bodies were thrown upwards on to a patch of land where every street primary school was built in 1874.Out of the 600 or so bodies that were washed from their graves only a handful were ever recovered to be re-buried.It was said that every time it was foggy you could see the ghosts of the long dead.We was never allowed to play out in the play ground when it was foggy.But at night it was said you could see strange whisps and Jack-o lanterns burning.

Katie: I hate to be a nuisance and was turning my comp. off when this topic and your name appeared. You know what pal- the name of the town I spent many of my teenage years in - Middleton, Nova Scotia, Canada . Your posts under another forum have referred to a Middleton in your area ! Incredible to me but that is where it ends. There are zillions of locations and trillions of posters but I am fascinated the only inter net acquaintance I have met for any length of time on this electronic thing refers to before unknown quantities such as "same name towns" and an interest in history as to" do you know....?" The "haunted thing"- no personal exp. yet but have friends who have told me plenty about what they have experienced in their old 20-50 room homes- not many folks seem interested but I sure enjoy the tales ! Gotta get outa town and mow some lawns !!

coyote wrote:

Katie: I hate to be a nuisance and was turning my comp. off when this topic and your name appeared. You know what pal- the name of the town I spent many of my teenage years in - Middleton, Nova Scotia, Canada . Your posts under another forum have referred to a Middleton in your area ! Incredible to me but that is where it ends. There are zillions of locations and trillions of posters but I am fascinated the only inter net acquaintance I have met for any length of time on this electronic thing refers to before unknown quantities such as "same name towns" and an interest in history as to" do you know....?" The "haunted thing"- no personal exp. yet but have friends who have told me plenty about what they have experienced in their old 20-50 room homes- not many folks seem interested but I sure enjoy the tales ! Gotta get outa town and mow some lawns !!

To Coyote hello it is a small world indeed Middleton is between the city of Manchester and the town of Rochdale.Coyote if you watch Coronation Street the accents the actors speak is a Rochdale accent it is not Mancunian accent.Coyote you to are the longest acquaintance on the internet that i have ever had.Coyote i will soon start my war memories thread soon you will be very interested in that one because i have a first hand account of one of histories first air raids see you later take care.

Today when my 5 year old daughter was playing out side she was poking around and digging in the soil when all of a sudden she came in the house with a dirty yellow disc.She wanted to know what she had found so i washed the thin yellow disc under the tap.Well what she had found was one of the most lovely coins ever minted in England she had found a gold angel coin from the reign of Henry VII who reigned from 1485-1509.This was a high face value coin its face value was 6 shillings 8 d or 6/8.Labourers and other workers would never have encountered this coin unless of course they found one.My home and land and the other farms a round here are on what was once a huge medieval estate owned by the Asheton family.This lovely old coin could have been dropped and lost by one of the members of the Asheton family only for my daughter to find it 500 years later.Dear readers to view this coin and to see how lovely it is check out Wikipedia old coins of England.In this country you never know what is under your feet.

Dear readers iam just following up on this thread my oldest son has a 6LB canon ball that a farmer gave him that was ploughed up the other day or so.I have told my children that they live on a civil war battle field people died here.....in more ways than one{my children do not know what went on in this house and to be honest iam not going to tell them-well not for a very long time that is.}

Katie: within 48 km of where I live are situated the maintained sites of the first French fortress' in NA plus the large fortress (built by French and taken over by the British) which is totally complete. One can read the histories of the French/ English wars and how they played out in the opening up of this area to the first white soldiers/settlers. The main fortress has cemeteries well preserved which contain tombstones going back to late 1600s into the 1700s which bear the names of many families which still reside in this area and background info is aplenty in the local shops. In my town there is a cemetery which is the final resting place for dozens of RAF pilot trainees who were being trained for RAF during the war years at a local large airbase which was constructed by Commonwealth. Each year the legion pays tribute to these sites but never hear of any official visitation of respect by the UK government. In another area of my province there are markers dedicated to U.S. soldiers/sailors who lost there lives in our vicinity during the war and the American gov't annually send reps to recognize the sacrifices and our legions are honored to participate. Anyway- I am most intrigued by visiting the first fortress' established by the French and English in NA and the sense of history felt when strolling among the remnants. These sites precede the Boston States and fortress Halifax or Louis burg. There are mineral water springs aplenty about 7 km from here in which British nobility used to come to bathe in for medicinal purposes but are now overgrown by forest although German interests have set up a bottling plant in the area but have not had much success in marketing the water.... neat stuff ! I live in a beautiful valley (about 200 km in length) and my grandmother (as a little girl) watched The Spirit of St. Louis fly overhead on the way for the first trans atlantic solo air crossing and it is acknowledged in the movie starring James Stewart..

coyote wrote:

Katie: within 48 km of where I live are situated the maintained sites of the first French fortress' in NA plus the large fortress (built by French and taken over by the British) which is totally complete. One can read the histories of the French/ English wars and how they played out in the opening up of this area to the first white soldiers/settlers. The main fortress has cemeteries well preserved which contain tombstones going back to late 1600s into the 1700s which bear the names of many families which still reside in this area and background info is aplenty in the local shops. In my town there is a cemetery which is the final resting place for dozens of RAF pilot trainees who were being trained for RAF during the war years at a local large airbase which was constructed by Commonwealth. Each year the legion pays tribute to these sites but never hear of any official visitation of respect by the UK government. In another area of my province there are markers dedicated to U.S. soldiers/sailors who lost there lives in our vicinity during the war and the American gov't annually send reps to recognize the sacrifices and our legions are honored to participate. Anyway- I am most intrigued by visiting the first fortress' established by the French and English in NA and the sense of history felt when strolling among the remnants. These sites precede the Boston States and fortress Halifax or Louis burg. There are mineral water springs aplenty about 7 km from here in which British nobility used to come to bathe in for medicinal purposes but are now overgrown by forest although German interests have set up a bottling plant in the area but have not had much success in marketing the water.... neat stuff ! I live in a beautiful valley (about 200 km in length) and my grandmother (as a little girl) watched The Spirit of St. Louis fly overhead on the way for the first trans atlantic solo air crossing and it is acknowledged in the movie starring James Stewart..

To Coyote hello what an interesting article i love the sentence about your gran watching the Spirit of St Louis flying over head(i use to have the Spirit of St Louis lego set when i was a young girl).I remember when Charles Linberg died he died in 1975.Here in Middleton we have a link to one of the most bloodiest battles ever fought in this country the Middleton archers they fought at the battle of flodden field in 1513.St Lenards church near the town centre has a stained glass window honouring the Middleton archers victory this is the worlds oldest war memorial.Also the church has groves cut into its stone work from the middleton archers when they use to sharpen their arrows before archery pratice on sunday.The Middleton archers still have desendants that live in and around Middleton to this day..I will type up an article on the middleton archers and the battle of Flodden field it will make grim reading.And when i have some time i will type up the history of Middleton it should be an interesting read.Takecare Coyote Katie.

Looking back on where I live: Katie- next time I visit the main British fortress I will pay special attention to the English names and see if there is a Mellish but also record some others and pass along as these were folks direct from UK to the "new land". I admit I am overstepping my boundaries by trying to interest you in the British takeover of the the "new continent" but I am able to trace my ancestors from U.K. and Germany to these awesome shores and that is where my interest begins. I have a letter from an ancestor who was a decorated British soldier from European theaters and was sent to subdue the French in this venue. The French were defeated and living conditions for the soldiers were harsh so desertion became popular. His letter describes the hardships and to escape the army seemed like a reasonable direction. Anyway- as time passed the British authority decided to pardon any deserters who had eked a living from the forests, became leaders in their community and so on. His letter describes the burial site of his wife and how he had planted a tree next to her headstone. I have visited the location and his own headstone is on the opposite side of the "stump from the tree" of his beloved. It Is a "Little House On The Prairie" scene and is a surreal feeling to visit. It seems in his younger days in England he had been one of Queen Victoria"s Royal Guards but I have never checked the years etc. Although my ancestors obviously lived in the era you describe I tend to focus on their arrival in NA. You would have a great time seeing first hand what the Brits and French encountered in the efforts to habitat a "new land" and the eventual heights reached. In Canada we do revere our natives despite such things as the tourist monument at "Bloody Creek" which commemorates a British supply troop being ambushed by the natives of the area. I am interested (by your comments) of pre NA history but find it easier to read about the interaction here and hope you can be drawn to an interest into how your forefathers overcame obstacles to habitat what is now Canada, U.S.A. and Mexico- sorry for rambling...

sorry- dble post- Irene (hurricane) has increased anxieties- she has gone !!!

coyote wrote:

Looking back on where I live: Katie- next time I visit the main British fortress I will pay special attention to the English names and see if there is a Mellish but also record some others and pass along as these were folks direct from UK to the "new land". I admit I am overstepping my boundaries by trying to interest you in the British takeover of the the "new continent" but I am able to trace my ancestors from U.K. and Germany to these awesome shores and that is where my interest begins. I have a letter from an ancestor who was a decorated British soldier from European theaters and was sent to subdue the French in this venue. The French were defeated and living conditions for the soldiers were harsh so desertion became popular. His letter describes the hardships and to escape the army seemed like a reasonable direction. Anyway- as time passed the British authority decided to pardon any deserters who had eked a living from the forests, became leaders in their community and so on. His letter describes the burial site of his wife and how he had planted a tree next to her headstone. I have visited the location and his own headstone is on the opposite side of the "stump from the tree" of his beloved. It Is a "Little House On The Prairie" scene and is a surreal feeling to visit. It seems in his younger days in England he had been one of Queen Victoria"s Royal Guards but I have never checked the years etc. Although my ancestors obviously lived in the era you describe I tend to focus on their arrival in NA. You would have a great time seeing first hand what the Brits and French encountered in the efforts to habitat a "new land" and the eventual heights reached. In Canada we do revere our natives despite such things as the tourist monument at "Bloody Creek" which commemorates a British supply troop being ambushed by the natives of the area. I am interested (by your comments) of pre NA history but find it easier to read about the interaction here and hope you can be drawn to an interest into how your forefathers overcame obstacles to habitat what is now Canada, U.S.A. and Mexico- sorry for rambling...

To Coyote hello you are not overstepping your boundaries by trying to interest me in the British take over of the New World because iam interested in the history of the Americas.The area where you live or live near sounds an interesting and historical place to live or to visit.Coyote you mention having a letter from one of your ancestors what is the date on the letter?Iam intereated in the Indian wars of Canada and the United states just as iam interested in the civil war.Well Coyote my oldest son loves that canon ball one of the farmers ploughed up,he was washing it again today and polishing it.Coyote i must try and find some good books on the civil war for my children to read and study.Either this year or next year i think we will start to visit Civil war battle fields.Manchester would be a good starting point that is where the civil war kicked off,then theres Preston moore.But one place i want to visit is Edgehill i will take my children there.Coyote the Levellers were here during the civil war they used a pub called the Old Boars Head they used it for their headquarters this pub dates from the 1500s.Now iam rambling on takecare Katie.

Pubs!!!! for sure....many of the huge mansions in the town around the fortress are described as having housed pubs in their histories. Not difficult to know the Brits liked their ale !! Apologies for being repetitive but when my 35 yr. old son served as an exchange student (1st Canadian at the school( at a college in Lincoln he was a bit of a novelty and treated very well. He was employed at a local pub in the town and taught how to put "head" on the servings for regular customers. He was certainly impressed at how serious the Brits were about such matters. must ask him if he ever ran across "pear cider". He is now a Commander in the navy so spends much time at sea and when ashore I do not see him as he spends the precious time with his wife, daughter and my ex.He did serve as liason with the Japanese navy when they sent a flotilla to visit our shores and the humorous stories are incredible.... take care

coyote wrote:

Pubs!!!! for sure....many of the huge mansions in the town around the fortress are described as having housed pubs in their histories. Not difficult to know the Brits liked their ale !! Apologies for being repetitive but when my 35 yr. old son served as an exchange student (1st Canadian at the school( at a college in Lincoln he was a bit of a novelty and treated very well. He was employed at a local pub in the town and taught how to put "head" on the servings for regular customers. He was certainly impressed at how serious the Brits were about such matters. must ask him if he ever ran across "pear cider". He is now a Commander in the navy so spends much time at sea and when ashore I do not see him as he spends the precious time with his wife, daughter and my ex.He did serve as liason with the Japanese navy when they sent a flotilla to visit our shores and the humorous stories are incredible.... take care

To Coyote hello talking about pubs there was this pub on Oldham Road,Newtonheath called the Prince of Wales it was known to the people around Newtonheath and Miles platting as the DEAD HOUSE-WHY? Because anybody mainly children that drowned in the Rochdale canal nearby were laid out in that pub and the Coroners inquest was held into the death in that pub.(Coroners inquests were held in public buildings pubs,church halls and Masonic halls until coroners courts were established after world war two)Infact that pub kept a coffin in the vault(for American readers a vault in a British pub is a male only drinking room where you can play darts,gamble,watch television and swear ect)The Prince of Wales aka the dead house was closed and demolished circa 1986 and with it went the local history of that area.Pubs in this country do have histories and some of those histories might just be a bit grim.

In history- I expect the pubs were regularly visited by the "press gangs" when looking for "volunteers" for the navy- suppose !!

I read on another forum you are possibly not able to secure a passport permitting entry into USA or Canada. I expect there is a time frame which has been served or an avenue to seek a gratis pardon (assume the incident(s) created a criminal record. Certainly your interest in history would be well served if you take the op to visit these shores. Obviously a tourist from here can spend an eternity in London alone visiting historical venues and encounter the history from our school days. When I backpacked around Central London my feet blistered as since you folks drive on the "wrong" side of the road I did not rent a car until I reached Calais. Have you folks decided to drive on the right side of the street/road yet ?

coyote wrote:

I read on another forum you are possibly not able to secure a passport permitting entry into USA or Canada. I expect there is a time frame which has been served or an avenue to seek a gratis pardon (assume the incident(s) created a criminal record. Certainly your interest in history would be well served if you take the op to visit these shores. Obviously a tourist from here can spend an eternity in London alone visiting historical venues and encounter the history from our school days. When I backpacked around Central London my feet blistered as since you folks drive on the "wrong" side of the road I did not rent a car until I reached Calais. Have you folks decided to drive on the right side of the street/road yet ?

To Coyote hello on what forum did you read that rubbish that has to be a TROLL post.Coyote we still drive on the opposite side of the road to the Americans/Canadians and the Europeans.There is an old reason for this most British are right handed and most Europeans are left handed.It goes back to the days of the knight on horse back,in the days of old a persons right hand in this country was their sword hand(also it is because the British are right handed that is why we made the best archers you cannot fire a bow and arrow with any effect if you are left handed because of the draw on the bow aross your body and line of sight.

OK- I'll buy the esp. re driving of left side of the road and the archery scenario. For sure it must have been a troll posting the rubbish about the drug experience. Had lunch this a.m. with a fellow from London who is over here doing research on our old rail system. His career was in the hi-speed train services in UK so he is having a great time locating museums etc. relating to the old steam engine era. He is enjoying the tranquility of the area and looking to by a small inactive farm to have for a place to visit and spend time at- very nice fellow- seems he met a girl from who was working in London and decided to visit the area.

coyote wrote:

In history- I expect the pubs were regularly visited by the "press gangs" when looking for "volunteers" for the navy- suppose !!

To Coyote yes there are some interesting pubs here in Machester alone.The Berwick near HMP Manchester is where the hangmen use to have a last pint before going on duty the day before a hanging.Then you have the Britons protection in Castlefield so called because it was used to recruit men by the army in the Boer war.And the Marble Arch that was built out of stolen material from the building of Victoria train station in the city centre.Even the ceilling of the Marble Arch has rail tracks supporting it.Everything that pub was built from was stolen from the construction site of Victoria station,bricks and cement,wood,glass and marble.Even the tiles on the wall and the slate on the roof were all stolen.Then there are the haunted pubs where a murder or suicide happened.There are three pubs in Manchester city centre that are over 500 years old now they have very interesting histories indeed but i will save that for another night.

coyote wrote:

OK- I'll buy the esp. re driving of left side of the road and the archery scenario. For sure it must have been a troll posting the rubbish about the drug experience. Had lunch this a.m. with a fellow from London who is over here doing research on our old rail system. His career was in the hi-speed train services in UK so he is having a great time locating museums etc. relating to the old steam engine era. He is enjoying the tranquility of the area and looking to by a small inactive farm to have for a place to visit and spend time at- very nice fellow- seems he met a girl from who was working in London and decided to visit the area.

To Coyote hello here in Manchester we have loads of museums even specialist ones like your new found friend was looking for.We have Manchester museum which is part of UMIST.We have the science and technology museum in Castlefield.We have John Rylands library which specialises in old documents and books many dating back to the middle ages.John Rylands library belongs to UMIST as well and is based in an old Gothic building on Deansgate(where most of the rioting/looting took place in city centre Manchester)Then in Catlefield we have the railway museum complete with the worlds first and worlds oldest railway station(Stevensons rocket pulled in here after the first rail passenger journey in history)Then in Cheethamhill we have the Jewish museum on Cheethamhill road.Also in Cheethamhill we have the bus and transport museum on Queens road.Also in the city centre there is URBIS which is a museum as to how people lived.Then in the docklands we have the war museum and the Lowery centre.And in higher Blackley we have the tram museum.Plus the many art galleries we have in Manchester.I nearly forgot the police museum on Newton street again city centre Manchester.Coyote you could spend a week just visiting the museums in the city centre alone.Ilove museums i can wander around them all day.Oh i nearly forgot the costume museum at Heaton Hall in Heaton Park Blackley.

OK Katie: I will meet him at a seminar in the a.m. and get his responses re Manchester. Actually- we are working on a computer course for advanced techniques and he is almost an instructor as he finds their use by average citizen in UK is much more common than this rural area so he is enjoying that status. Will forward any info- did your place of employment "fill up" as result of the riots? Tomorrow we will be getting some insight into how surveillance cameras many miles away can be utilized from a computer and viewed on the monitor. The operator of the cameras has all downloaded and able to supply data to authorities for apprehension. I know in UK these are very commonplace but apparently are more numerous around here than I realized.