To the 'victim' norsuxcox-

momofgus wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry, but I just wanted to chime in really quick... To Wally: I have always thought of you as the Mr. Miyagi of the board :o)

Thank you, momofgus-san.

:o)

wouldratherdoit wrote:

It is the wheeling and dealing out in the open on Topix for the world to see that bothers me most. If a person came here for the first time without a clue of what is going on they would think it is basically a drug warehouse for illegal sales of narcotics. And they would be right. That is the picture being presented to the public by most of the posts here.
And that makes CPP's look bad, not to mention all the other problems caused by these activities.

What goes on here is the very thing that drives the DEA to do what they do and drives the doctors to do what they do or do not do for patients. Primary care doctors will not treat pain here anymore. Most of the pain doctors just flat out quit for fear of losing their licenses and going to jail. Gone, good bye and we will not see you later.

Thank you for that post. It's good to see you speaking from a more level-headed point-of-view.

To answer the first point that you highlighted...that's why there are so many good-hearted people here that are willing to warn off newcomers from the potential scammers. It happens every day. If someone truly took the time to read many of the threads, they would realize that most "sellers" here ARE scammers and would hopefully proceed with extreme caution before sending funds.

To answer your second point...don't you think it's just possible that it's the DEA that caused this problem. If doctors could freely prescribe for true CPP's then there wouldn't be a need for the "black market." And if there was, the prices would be so low as to make it not profitable.

So I guess it comes down to which came first...the chicken or the egg?

IWallysHO wrote:

<quoted text>
By the way...it's lose...not loose.
Like I said previously, most of what you're saying is actually correct.
Once again, it's the way you say it that is the problem.
And let's get one thing straight, if someone steals from someone, the person who steals is a thief, and the person that's stolen from is a victim.
An innocent victim, maybe not. But a victim never-the-less.
Stop trying to catergorize people that are just trying to get what they need "criminals." Are they doing something "illegal?" Sure. But doing something illegal doesn't always make you a real "criminal."
CPP's are victims. Victims of a medical system that doesn't prescribe what's necessary because of the fear of giving too much and losing their license. It's the system that's criminal.
If you're all hell-bent to really stop true crime, I'm sure that there are places other than here where your posts will be better appreciated. Like maybe a domestic abuse board.
Amen Wally!!!!!! God I love what you said here.
So perfectly worded. No wonder you do well respected. Thank U!

Amen Wally!! I love what you said here!! No wonder your so well respected! Thank YoU

wouldratherdoit wrote:

While doctor shopping has been cut down, the real dealers are still getting them from somewhere so most of the pills probably come from CPP's looking to make money.
You have to look at where the pills become available to the general public. That is when a person picks them up at the pharmacy. If not one of these people sold their pills, we would not be in this mess. It does not matter how many dealers or addicted people in the world there are, if the pills did not leave the possession of the person they were prescribed to, we wouldn't be where we are now, pill wise.
If I sold my pills tomorrow, I would be the first link in the problem CPP's are having today.
And you can't blame the doctors. You don't have someone from the federal government with the power of the DEA with the power to throw you in jail for a long time and can ruin your life forever standing over your head just watching for what he perceives is a punishable offense.
And State and local cops are on the hunt too.
No wonder the doctors are getting out.

Don't a lot come from overseas as well?

Desperate2 wrote:

<quoted text>
Amen Wally!! I love what you said here!! No wonder your so well respected! Thank YoU

By some...LOL.

Thanks for the support.

:o)

Well...guess what folks?

We're not going to solve the problem of the DEA, stingy doctors, CPP's who sometimes do and sometimes don't use their meds, addicts, etc...anytime soon.

We all have our opinions as to who's at fault. We're probably all a little right and all a little wrong.

But the fact remains...it is what it is.

There is a shortage of doctors who will prescribe true CPP's what they need.

As long as that's the case, there will be places like Topix where desperate folks will go to get what they need to get through the day.

Where there are desperate folks, the scammers are sure to follow.

We're all adults here. We decide who we decide to trust. Sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong. It's the nature of the business.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone coming on here and complaining that they were scammed. Those people aren't trying to "escape" their responsibility. They post in hopes of saving others from the same fate, and maybe shaming a scammer with a conscience into doing the right thing.

It's a pretty tried-and-true system here.

As long as certain rules are followed, generally speaking, no one will be scammed too badly.

IWHO.

I think everyone has a valid point in this discussion. A combination of the CPPs selling there drugs to be able to eat dinner and the crooked DRs prescribing as much as they possibly can to make that BMW payment and then finally the DEA stepping in and making ridiculous changes and arresting whoever they feel prescribed a little too much that month. This is all bullshit and our federal government is only making things worse. Unfortunately this will not end till scientists develops a new drug that will not be addicting and relieve CPPs of there pain. To be honest with everyone the way our technology is exploding I don't think we have to wait to much longer. Then this 3 ring circus will end.

I just googled it and found this article for a drug that relieves severe pain but has chemicals in it to stop the high so it is non addictive. Happy reading.
Unlike the heroin-specific vaccine we covered last year, an international team of scientists from the University of Adelaide in Australia and the University of Colorado Boulder has now found a way to block addiction to various opioid drugs, including heroin and morphine. Importantly, the new approach doesn’t negatively affect the pain-relieving properties of these drugs.
The central nervous system and the immune system both play important roles in the development of an addiction, with opioid drugs such as heroin and morphine binding to an immune receptor known as Toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4) in a similar way to the normal immune response to bacteria. Dr. Mark Hutchinson, ARC Research Fellow in the University of Adelaide’s School of Medical Sciences says,“The problem is that TLR4 then acts as an amplifier for addiction.”
In studies on rats using (+)-naloxone, a drug that automatically shuts down the opioid addiction by altering brain chemistry to stop production of the feel-good chemical dopamine, the researchers found that blocking the immune response is all that is required to prevent cravings for opioid drugs.
“Our studies have shown conclusively that we can block addiction via the immune system of the brain, without targeting the brain’s wiring,” said Hutchinson, who was lead author of the study.
“This work fundamentally changes what we understand about opioids, reward and addiction,” adds senior author Professor Linda Watkins, from the Center for Neuroscience at CU-Boulder.“We’ve suspected for some years that TLR4 may be the key to blocking opioid addiction, but now we have the proof.
“The drug that we’ve used to block addiction,(+)-naloxone, is a non-opioid mirror-image drug that was created by Dr. Kenner Rice in the 1970s,” Watkins said.“We believe this will prove extremely useful as a co-formulated drug with morphine, so that patients who require relief for severe pain will not become addicted but still receive pain relief. This has the potential to lead to major advances in patient and palliative care.”
The researchers say clinical trials may be possible within the next 18 months.
The results of their study are being published in the August 15 edition of the Journal of Neuroscience.

Honey_1 wrote:

It sure would be nice if it worked out that way....help your pain but not addicting. Be worth its weight in gold.....

Reminds me of when Tramadol first came out. It was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Non narcotic, not addicting but handles severe pain.

Ended up being non narcotic, somewhat addicting, potential to cause seizures and handles very little pain.

wouldratherdoit wrote:

<quoted text>
I really don't have answers here for you.
My family has had to have sit downs, let bygones be bygones and wipe it aside. I was raised that family is everything and I am seeing that my time is getting shorter.
Guilt is a very strong emotion to overcome and I don't know how to tell you to find peace but I hope you do.
Now, if it was my money you were spending I would have to cut you off.
No more than two bits at a time. That's $.25 for you kids.
JK
Seriously, if you were my partner and I was forced to choose between seeing you in pain or seeing the disappointment after you got scammed, it would probably f'ng kill me. But I can't tell you what I would do because I haven't faced that situation. Your hubby must be a great guy.
As a friend I could only try to convince you to not do it but it is your money.
The only sure way to not lose money on Topix is to not try to buy here. Even when you have or think you have a "legit" the probability of getting scammed is always great, here on Topix it seems.
I say we get out the wheelchairs and wheel on Washington for better care. I've been looking for a reason to mount a small block Chevy 350 on a wheelchair for quite some time now.

Find The Dirty Mexican - I have every reason to believe that Frank will not scam you... There I've said it...

Honey_1 wrote:

<quoted text>
It sure would be nice if it worked out that way....help your pain but not addicting. Be worth its weight in gold.....
Reminds me of when Tramadol first came out. It was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Non narcotic, not addicting but handles severe pain.

It would still be addictive...kind of.

If you're a true CPP, you would take it all the time because it relieves your pain. That's addictive.

What it would really do is to stop the true "addict" who is just seeking the "high" and then becomes addicted to that feeling.

It would "unlock the handcuffs" that many physicians currently have on them to prescribe adequate amounts of pain meds.

Hopefully, if it works for the rats, it'll work for the humans.

But I also wonder if there will be the same issue with tolerance. Where over time, you would need to take more and more to acheive the same effect. Back to the old "addictive" ways.

If clinical trials don't start for 18 months, it'll be at least 3-5 years before there is anything on the market.

Considering the epidemic that pain pills have caused...you'd think maybe they could put a "RUSH" on it.

IWallysHO wrote:

<quoted text>It would still be addictive...kind of.

If you're a true CPP, you would take it all the time because it relieves your pain. That's addictive.

What it would really do is to stop the true "addict" who is just seeking the "high" and then becomes addicted to that feeling.

It would "unlock the handcuffs" that many physicians currently have on them to prescribe adequate amounts of pain meds.

Hopefully, if it works for the rats, it'll work for the humans.

But I also wonder if there will be the same issue with tolerance. Where over time, you would need to take more and more to acheive the same effect. Back to the old "addictive" ways.

If clinical trials don't start for 18 months, it'll be at least 3-5 years before there is anything on the market.

Considering the epidemic that pain pills have caused...you'd think maybe they could put a "RUSH" on it.

So in reality there would be no market for this type of drug for addicts. The CPPs would finally find a way to get help and the drug pushers could not use this to their advantage. I really hope they move forward quickly with this new medication.

MustangManiac wrote:

<quoted text>
So in reality there would be no market for this type of drug for addicts. The CPPs would finally find a way to get help and the drug pushers could not use this to their advantage. I really hope they move forward quickly with this new medication.

Too many variables to even know if this ever makes it to market.

Side effects, etc...

You can also bet that the big opiate producers will do everything they can to throw a "wrench into thw works."

IWallysHO wrote:

<quoted text>
Too many variables to even know if this ever makes it to market.
Side effects, etc...
You can also bet that the big opiate producers will do everything they can to throw a "wrench into thw works."

what a great thread this ended up being. Also loved "for all of us that live in shades of grey". A friend of mine is pharmaceutical drug rep and he told me "any drug that blocks the addictive qualities won't be in big pharms best interest. They count on that so they can make billions". Kinda interesting take. So refreshing to read this thread and hear all the diff viewpoints. I asked my pain doc yesterday "are u ever worried about the dea shutting u down or other issues like that?". He paused and said "yes and no...I follow the rules meticuously. I document everything. I eliminate drug seekers for diversion and I pay out my ass for an excellent attorney to protect me and my cpps". I busted out laughing. He's not a pill mill by any means but he believes that pain that is uncontrolled is like living "a half life". He told me once "I use my intellect to be a doctor...my empathy to understand and my gut to protect my practice".

pelvicpainfor2yrs wrote:

<quoted text> what a great thread this ended up being. Also loved "for all of us that live in shades of grey". A friend of mine is pharmaceutical drug rep and he told me "any drug that blocks the addictive qualities won't be in big pharms best interest. They count on that so they can make billions". Kinda interesting take. So refreshing to read this thread and hear all the diff viewpoints. I asked my pain doc yesterday "are u ever worried about the dea shutting u down or other issues like that?". He paused and said "yes and no...I follow the rules meticuously. I document everything. I eliminate drug seekers for diversion and I pay out my ass for an excellent attorney to protect me and my cpps". I busted out laughing. He's not a pill mill by any means but he believes that pain that is uncontrolled is like living "a half life". He told me once "I use my intellect to be a doctor...my empathy to understand and my gut to protect my practice".

Billions - It's hard to argue with that... Watson or whoever gets their cut on every pill that anyone takes...

The higher the demand (no pun intended) and the longer they can sustain the demand the better the business model. I'm surprised that they didn't drag their feet longer on those plastic oxys...

Does the same company that makes subs make opiate pain killers?

Honey_1 wrote:

Please forgive my ignorance....what's a plastic oxy?
I am new to so much of this terminology.

They changed the formula on the Oxy's to make them tamperproof. The new ones can't be crushed and snorted or injected. People call the new ones plastic because they are like plastic pills.

Honey_1 wrote:

Please forgive my ignorance....what's a plastic oxy?

I am new to so much of this terminology.

I'm not 100% sure but when they reformulated the oxys to be crush proof I think they actually formulated it with some kind of plastic like coating to prevent the crushing ability. If I read that wrong then a quick facepalm in advance for the misinformation.

John wrote:

<quoted text>I'm not 100% sure but when they reformulated the oxys to be crush proof I think they actually formulated it with some kind of plastic like coating to prevent the crushing ability. If I read that wrong then a quick facepalm in advance for the misinformation.

The true junkies have already defeated the plastic pills. There is a certain method they developed to get rid of the plastic. I know I've read that on the oxy forum.

MustangManiac wrote:

<quoted text>
The true junkies have already defeated the plastic pills. There is a certain method they developed to get rid of the plastic. I know I've read that on the oxy forum.

Where there's a will..........