Coumadin to ICU - Internal Bleeding

My dad has been taking Coumadin for 10 years, as he has multiple mechanical heart valves. He recently has been diagnosed with internal bleeding in his thoracic area, but they can't figure out from where, which I think means that there are multiple leakage points, and they can't fix it all. His body is constantly fighting the new plasma that is given him, so his blood count always drops, his platelets drop - He has been off Coumadin for 4 weeks, and he's still in ICU, on and off ventilator...Any ideas?

my mother died on dec7th from internal bleeding. She was on coumadin too. This drug is so very dangerous. I read that it causes 8,000 deaths a year from bleeding. Also numerous trips to the er especially from people over 65. They are putting a new warning on the box. IT use to say may cause hemmorage. NOW it will be a black box warning stating can cause major or fatal bleeding". How do they expect an elderly person to be aware of the dangers.My mom was being monitored every month but it certianly was not enough. A law suit is definalty in order for all of us who have lost someone to this dangerous drug.

we all have very sad stories regarding this coumedan drug. please go to the web site medicine. net. Also google to: mayo clinic and look for coumedan. I am trying to get a lawyer for my mothers case related to coumedan. I also think we shold somehow be going after the drug company that manufactures this horrible drug. Which by the way was used as a rat poison originally.

My Nana was on Coumadin because she had congestive heart failure and has been in A fib. Her doctor upped her dosage of Coumadin for no apparent reason and she soon thereafter developed a GI bleed. Instead of taking her dosage down they took her completely off and she had a massive stroke 5 days later.... Coumadin is risky...but the alternatives can be even riskier.

If any one wants to join in I am going to contact dateline nbc. As i stated in another email.
This is the advice i was given by a lawyer. After contacting numerous lawyers non of which is willing to take my case because they say not enough pain and suffering. To compensate.
no lost wages. etc. I do want to get the word out about how devestating this drug is and how hard it is to control in your system to be safe, so anyone who is interested in persuing some kind of action again bristol meyers squibb who manufacturer it
by getting the word out can email me at cathygaf57@verizon.net... also the fda needs to be held responsible as well, I have information on how they do business as well.
I am open to any suggestions as well...
lets get together on this one and tell our stories.
in the name of our loved ones, and just maybe we can help save some other lives.
god bless..

I do agree. Coumadin saves lives and certainly has saved mine, and continues to save mine. I do not wish any lawsuits against the drugmakers, nor do I want for my lifesaver to be banished from the market.

I think doctors and nurses need to make sure patients are well educated and continue to educate and work with them, no matter how much time that takes.

And patients need to stick to whatever their doctor and nurses tell them and if they develop problems, to speak up and head for the ER.

And unfortunately, occasionally things do go wrong, but they do that with any drug. I am very sorry for those that have to go through this kind of thing, and my heart breaks for those that have lost a loved one this way.

But please, don't fight to get this drug off the market, because for so many of us, it's the only thing we've got. Please understand our position too.

As for Manhattanite, I understand your feelings (well, I think I do) but can we please keep our language on this forum clean. I think many of us agree with what you are saying, but it would be better you didn't swear......

Thanks all and Happy New Year!

This medication will never be removed from the market due to the Lives it SAVES. If you want to make a lawsuit against any medication you will find the same circumstance - people die from medications everyday. It is however, very difficult to only relate the death to a particular drug and not other underlying problems. Many people tend to point a finger at Coumadin for "bleeding" issues. The fact is, there are many issues that can CAUSE the bleed - but Coumadin can enhance it. Be careful what you pursue - I understand the loss of a loved one can make you think one sided - but the truth is, there are alot of sides. Aspirin alone has caused bleeds and has many adverse side effects that people are unaware of. I hope this didnt sound cold - but I do think people are so quick sometimes to sue. I agree that if their was negligence in caring for your loved one - you could file suit against the doctor, hospital etc - a drug is not responsible. I would agree that many "managing doctors, nurses etc" make bad judgement calls at times. Keep this in mind.

Currently taking coumadin for three years now. Had a stroke at the age of 39 which in turn caused heart failure. The mix between the drugs and the coumadin is something you have to really watch what you eat, what you drink, taking any over the counter drugs or alcohol, even if its a dinner wine once a week. Every person has a different tolerance level. The safest drug of choice is tylenol. There have been a few times I took just one advil to relieve my headache and it thins my blood too much. This can lead to internal bleeding or bruising. I hate having to take coumadin, but when I think of the alternative and another stroke, I say keep coumadin and live with the downside and be very aware of what you do.

manhattanite wrote:

you fcuking idiot, the drug is designed to save people who are already very sick and probably wouldnt die pretty quickly if it weren't for this prescription only drug. it is used for a heart condition that requires it. without the drug, the patient would die of a blood clot.
you idiotic staten islanders piss me off.

You post like that and have the NERVE to call someone else an idiot? Coumadin saves lives, it also kills lives....8,000 a year to be exact. If it isn't you or someone you love I guess it is easy not to give a rat's butt (or should I say rat poison)....but I sat watching my dad in ICU on a respirator the other night and at the time you couldlln't convince me that coumadin ssaved his life, it almost killed him

Oh and the borough you live in is no indication if you have a brain or not, you are a perfect example.

Hello,

the whole coumadin issue is a very delicate one. On the one hand, it definitely saves and extends lives and improves the quality of lives. Such as mine, for example.

On the other hand, if not properly managed by qualified doctors and/or nurses, it can turn out disastrous.

I do believe the problem is not the drug itself, but how it is managed. Patients and their families need to be educated about it thoroughly and they need to keep doctors and lab appointments religiously. It takes patient education, patient cooperation, and a good doctor/nurse/lab team to make it work.

I always check when i get a new prescription as to what I can, can't, should, shouldn't be doing. If I don't understand it I call the doctor. If it's something new I have never heard of, I either call my doctor or ask the pharmacist.

And no, it's not your fault if you get a prescription and you or your loved one(s) have a problem with it. I am merely suggesting that if we get anything new - not just coumadin - but any new prescription - let's educate ourselves about it and learn as much as we can, to avoid complications.

Hope this helps...

Angela wrote:

Hello,
the whole coumadin issue is a very delicate one. On the one hand, it definitely saves and extends lives and improves the quality of lives. Such as mine, for example.
On the other hand, if not properly managed by qualified doctors and/or nurses, it can turn out disastrous.
I do believe the problem is not the drug itself, but how it is managed. Patients and their families need to be educated about it thoroughly and they need to keep doctors and lab appointments religiously. It takes patient education, patient cooperation, and a good doctor/nurse/lab team to make it work.
I always check when i get a new prescription as to what I can, can't, should, shouldn't be doing. If I don't understand it I call the doctor. If it's something new I have never heard of, I either call my doctor or ask the pharmacist.
And no, it's not your fault if you get a prescription and you or your loved one(s) have a problem with it. I am merely suggesting that if we get anything new - not just coumadin - but any new prescription - let's educate ourselves about it and learn as much as we can, to avoid complications.

Hope this helps...

It doesnt help me. The pain and suffering my family has been through since my dads death from bills and bills upon bills and his social security cut in half for my mom..his pension cut for her...the massive paperwork needed. She had to get a lawyer to keep the house..and we MISS our dad! He did not have enough info to make his own choice of whether he wanted to take asperin or rat poison...knowing my dad..he would choose asperin. he had atrial fib. which you can live with as long as you dont get a clot in your heart. Well he got a clot in his leg! while on coumadin...how did that happen! Apparently it doesnt prevent all clots. since he had coumadin in his system ..the rupture in his brain artery basically made him bleed to death too fast. He needed new blood to help clot the artery..but it was too late. This drug helps people but also doesnt help. They might has well lay people in the sun and say ..its a great vitamin d helper..but you can die from skin cancer.. it saves lives but to hell for the rest of the people who it doesnt. 50 deaths..that might be ok..but hundreds! im so happy for the ones who have lived! Just because it helps people doesnt make it a great drug. An over-abundance of deaths is aweful!

I totally agree Michelle. I am a researcher so if anyone knows how to do research on a drug it is me. There are cases of A-fib that can be treated with aspirin but coumadin means more visits to the doctor for follow up and more money. It prevents clotting better, but it also causes more deaths. Was my dad mismanaged? Quite definitely. That is why I'm suing his doctors, not the company taht makes coumadin. He was never told it had a black label, never told what symptoms of internal bleeding to look out for. After his first bleed he was put on too high a dosage and never referred to a coumadin clinic for better management. Why? Because the prick doctor didn't want to lose his patient to the coumadin clinic, why not have hte INR done in the office so he can bill.(the doctor owns his own lab one the premises). There are too many mistakes that i can list here..the point is that 8000 people a year die because of coumadin. And even when they are getting their INR's tested on a regular basis (twice a week) that does no good to someone like my father, who is super sensitive to it. I think EVERY patient should be gentotyped before being put on coumadin so you know who is going to be super sensitive to it. But again, that means medicare has to pay for it and genetic testing is expensive.

Noone should lose a loved one because of coumadin. New anticoagulants are being tested now and being used in Europe and Canada. We may have antoher anticoagulant option in a few years and it can't come soon enough. I guess the coumadin clinics will have to close down, what a pity.

My Grandmother is in ICU right now. She was put on Coumadin last night and has already developed internal bleeding. Her stomach looks likeshe is 9 months pregnant and she has gone through 6 pints of blood just today. Im not against the drug because i dont understand exactly what it does, but i do know that Grandma was better yesterday than today. I dont want her to die. I wish there were alternative medications.

EdfromNJtoAZ wrote:

My dad has been taking Coumadin for 10 years, as he has multiple mechanical heart valves. He recently has been diagnosed with internal bleeding in his thoracic area, but they can't figure out from where, which I think means that there are multiple leakage points, and they can't fix it all. His body is constantly fighting the new plasma that is given him, so his blood count always drops, his platelets drop - He has been off Coumadin for 4 weeks, and he's still in ICU, on and off ventilator...Any ideas?

My mother has been battling the same problem. She had a Mitro Valve put in aroung 1994 and has been on Coumadin ever since. About 2 months ago she went in for 4 pints of blood. Now, every 2 weeks she goes into the hospital for about 3 pints of blood. Each time it takes its toll on her. We have seen many doctors and are so confused. The gastro doctor said she needs to have a pig valve put in vs the mechanical valve. then they can take her off the drug. Her cardiologist says that she has too much damage to her heart and is not a canidate for the pig valve. I guess we have to keep on searching.

I cannot say anything bad about coumadin. On one hand, I have my father who is a stroke victom. He is on coumadin for about 18 years and never had to change dosages. On the other hand, I have my mother, who had a mitro valve put in in 1994. Her levels have not stabalized ever. And that could be why she is bleeding internally. If not for the surgery and the medicine, we probably would have lost her in 1994. So I have to be gratefull. But, I still need to get her off the medacine now. Has anyone heard of an alternate equivalent? Or, Does anyone know of a specialist in NYC?

TJ4esta....there is a neurologist at Columbia Presbyterian called Dr Jay Mohr. He is a coumadin specialist, in fact he lectures all over the world about it and when Coumadin makes the news he is usually quoted somewhere. Getting an appt with him isn't easy but I would try anyway. My father cannot take coumadin, he almost bled to death twice in one month and now is disabled because of it. I am in the process of finding out what our other options are , other than heperin shots.

you can email me if you would like to discuss this furher and I can give you some more names of specialists. b.afrodite@yahoo.com

My husband has been taking Coumadin and has had two blood transfusions in the last few months, he's also in Afib and they are sure he is bleeding somewhere but don't know where. He's been cutting down his pills every other day as he knows himself that the coumadin isn't doing him any good. You think the drs would know how bad this drug is. Was reading that there is pomagrant extract that stops clotting anyone ever hear anything about that? We're at wits end.

Georgie, is your husband always in Afib - or just sometimes? He may not need to be on Coumadin if he isnt in it all the time. How long has he been on coumadin? Why do they think he is bleeding from some where -- does he have any bleeding in his urine or stool? Is he having pain anywhere? Have they done a CT of his head?

Laurie wrote:

Georgie, is your husband always in Afib - or just sometimes? He may not need to be on Coumadin if he isnt in it all the time. How long has he been on coumadin? Why do they think he is bleeding from some where -- does he have any bleeding in his urine or stool? Is he having pain anywhere? Have they done a CT of his head?

I though an afib diagnosis automatically meant being put on coumadin Laurie, it is interesting that you bring this up. I know youd idn't direct this comment to me but I just had to interject. I think my question would be how bad does the afib have to be to warrant the use of anticoagulant therapy? I guess that is for a cardiologist to decide. I'm wondering if my dad needed to be on it at all. He just had his third hospital admission due to the effects of the bleed outs that he had and again the doctors said that he should be on coumadin. Does ablation stop the need for coumadin?

Delilah, some people go in and out of Afib - if a doctor finds that most of the time they are NOT in Afib - sometimes after an amount of time specified by the doctor - they take them off and keep them on ASA. If they go back and forth more frequently then yes they normally will keep them on it. If the ablation worked and your dad is not in Afib anymore and has no other risk factors - he also may not need to continue on Coumadin. Hope this answered your question a little - in my past experience some of my Cardiologists always kept them on Coumadin but it wasnt until I had been regulating coumadin for awhile that a couple of my doctors would switch the patients txmnt based on the fact that the majority of the time they werent in afib. Sorry to hear your dad has had so many problems.