Man alleges police used excessive force in LoDo incident

Full story: Fox 31 KDVR

What started as a walk to the park ended with a trip to the hospital for a Denver dog owner.
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601 - 620 of 640 Comments Last updated Sep 5, 2010
Edson

Mansfield, OH

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#627
Aug 23, 2010
 
G-Rove wrote:
The report on this is extremely misleading and slanderous. I watched all 7 min. 29 sec. of the raw video and this is what I observed:
1. Police talk to man. Man seems agitated and evasive. Police appear to issue ticket/summons. Man pulls out cell phone camera. Police appear to give an order to put it away. Man continues to try to take photos. Police officer grabs man's arm and appears to be trying to escort him away. Man resists by pulling away.
2. Police attempt to restrain man's arms behind back in a control hold and place him in handcuffs. Man pulls away and continues to resist. Man appears to throw a punch at taller officer connecting at the chin. Then man grabs officer's shirt and refuses to let go. Officer repeatedly strikes man until man releases hold on officer.
3. When man releases hold, officer ceases striking man and attempts to gain control of arm. Officers turn man around and put him on the ground on his knees. Officers continue to struggle to gain control of man's arms. Officers finally handcuff man and allow him to sit up. First officer collects dogs and allows them to sit in man's lap. Officers and man resume talking.
Who initiated the violence?
Is the initiation of violence ever moral?

Since: Nov 07

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#629
Aug 23, 2010
 

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Edson wrote:
<quoted text>
Who initiated the violence?
Is the initiation of violence ever moral?
The drunken dog walker initiated the violence. This isnt his first run in either
Gerrilea

Buffalo, NY

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#630
Aug 23, 2010
 
Proud American wrote:
<quoted text>
how about taking all of that time that you obviously have and take a class in common sense and morals. It is easy to copy and paste stuff from the Internet but why haven't you stated what the original case was about?You have obviously been called out on one of your infamous cases and now magically it doesn't matter. Like I said you use and twist things about as good as the media. You are probably stating case law for an off duty officer and someone stealing a bag of potatoe chips.
And lies?? Common sense is not lying. Good job on trying to smere people on here tho. You remind me of the guy from good will hunting who tries to impress the female in the bar and gets called out on it. I am stating common sense in my posts. I know typing something into a search engine is easy but come up with your own thoughts. Analytical reading is important if you want to cite cases. Try that first or state some actual facts about the case in question, not just one justices opinion when we don't know what the question was.
"taking a class in common sense"? Your simply insulting and then accuse others of what you yourself do. Transference anyone?

Castle Rock vs. Gonzales is one of many cases that proved, even with a restraining order, the police have no obligation to enforce it or protect the individual whom holds said restraining order. Your previous posts discussed parts of the case that meant absolutely nothing. The facts remain, the police were called to enforce said restraining order, decided for themselves the person it was against was "non-violent" and left. That same person, then kidnapped 3 children and killed them and finally himself, "suicide by cop". Your rants that the police did all they could is misdirections and ignores the actual LEGAL OUTCOME of said case. Again, I'll spell it out for you. THE POLICE HAVE NO OBLIGATION ENFORCE A RESTRAINING ORDER. And your propaganda excuse was because the police are given "discretion" to decide for themselves what's more important and/or because there are so many restraining orders...Their "discretion" led to the deaths of 3 innocent children...

So, who protects us again?

As I've said numerous times, it's our personal responsibility to do so and always has been. You've then thrown insults implying "people like me are similar to Tim McVeigh or hide out in the mountains"...So who needs a class in common sense here? Certainly not me. Court after Court has said that the police are not obligated to protect the individual. So, stating these facts makes me like McVeigh or makes me into something else?

Your feeble strawman arguments and false logic are intended to misdirect these facts. Emotional attacks along with strawman comparisons are the trademarks of disinfo agents. People paid to make truth tellers out to be lunatics and part of some "fringe".

I was polite to you until your McVeigh comparison, sir!

And every case I've quoted can be researched by the willing. I've done the hard parts for them. How is it my responsibility to go any further? I've named the cases and pointed out those decisions pertinent points and presented what the courts actually said.

It's gun grabbers like you that want the American people disarmed and helpless with no way of self defense so that our "uniformed thugs" can do whatever they so desire!

And when the facts are presented in a Public Forum, you attack the messenger and make wild accusations against anyone and everyone. I'm not the only person you've accused and attacked here.

Again, people like you are a danger to this Country and our Constitutional Republic. In my humble opinion, you're traitors! Disinfo agents that have been brainwashed into believing "up is down" and "left is right".
jeremy

Sanger, CA

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#631
Aug 23, 2010
 
Im going through the police academy and it enrages me to see this. Cops like the two of them give cops all over the United States a bad name. First off there is nothing wrong with a civilian coming up and talking with an officer yet they say he was disrupting their stop. If a cop is doing something unlawful i think its great that someone holds them accountable. This whole senario was the cops under color of authority, and they have earned the right to get fired.
Edwin

Bowersville, GA

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#632
Aug 24, 2010
 
I see this as the standing army the founding fathers did not want in our America. So what if the driver didn't stop at the stop sign, was anybody injured as the result besides the innocent witness and his dogs? This kind of police brutality is happening all over America now and I'm ready to help my fellow American citizens put a stop to it.
Johnny Rotten

Denver, CO

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#633
Aug 24, 2010
 
Gerrilea wrote:
<quoted text>
What facts could possibly come out here? The taller thug did violate the 4th & 5th Amendments when he took it upon himself to illegally search the victims cellphone. Then the same taller thug violated the 8th Amendment when the victim was handcuffed behind his back sitting on the ground by grinding his head into the cement with his knee.
Let's not forget those same thugs did first detain the victim for not apparent cause, illegally & unconstitutionally demanding identification. See my previous posts about the rights we have to Constitutionally and by decided Case Law to refuse any orders of these "uniformed thugs".
See this:
Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest
constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm
You failed to answer my question yesterday and I wanted to make sure you didn't forget. I was just curious. It seems you have done your research on this topic. I will ask you another question about this particular stop, and hopefully you will answer my other question as well. I understand there is freedom of speech and they cannot detain someone for no reason. Let's make a hypothetical situation. There is no audio to accompany the video everyone has been watching. They both seemed to react pretty quickly when the dog man said something. What if he threatened their lives? Is that not a reason to take him down. Obviously a boozed up guy with 2 dogs isn't much of a threat, but still. Its like that old saying goes about having the right to free speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater.
Mike

Denver, CO

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#634
Aug 24, 2010
 
PigBeater wrote:
How did those two gimps get badges anyway? The idiot responsible for that should be reprimanded with a strong arm, and fist. Then the pedestrians dogs should be allowed to butt f#ck these two pigs until it can be assured that they will be $hitting canine semen for the rest of 2010. I suppose we could let them pay their own legal defense with a video we can call "Two Dogs, Two Hogs, One Cup".
Another tough talking college kid with a paintball gun.
Gerrilea

Buffalo, NY

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#635
Aug 24, 2010
 
Johnny Rotten wrote:
<quoted text>You failed to answer my question yesterday and I wanted to make sure you didn't forget. I was just curious. It seems you have done your research on this topic. I will ask you another question about this particular stop, and hopefully you will answer my other question as well. I understand there is freedom of speech and they cannot detain someone for no reason. Let's make a hypothetical situation. There is no audio to accompany the video everyone has been watching. They both seemed to react pretty quickly when the dog man said something. What if he threatened their lives? Is that not a reason to take him down. Obviously a boozed up guy with 2 dogs isn't much of a threat, but still. Its like that old saying goes about having the right to free speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater.
Sorry, I missed your first question, could you re-post it? I can concede your hypothetical points here but that's all we have. Agreed, we don't know what was actually said, without sound. The "dog man" could have called them assholes too. But where in the Constitution does it allow or grant our created gov't the authority to subdue and incarcerate someone for being an a-hole? Even if he threatened them, why did they feel it necessary to abuse their authorities. We can't have it both ways here, if you are disrespectful to cops, you'll get illegally arrested and beaten up. Yet they don't have to protect you when you may need it, because as someone mentioned, they have "discretion". Why didn't they use their discretion here and just ignore him? Because they've gotten too big for their britches!

I'd suggest you read the free online book "Would the Real First Amendment Stand Up", by Krusch.

Here's the link:

http://www.krusch.com/books/Real.pdf

After reading this short 140 ppg book, get back to me. See how the flaws in logic and reasoning have lead to the lies we now must live with caused by bad Supreme Court rulings!

Free speech, shall not be infringed...Period. Very clear language.

We are hardly free today. Only free to buy but not own anything. Check out who actually holds the title to your land or car or even your computer! If you continually pay taxes on something, you don't actually own it. You're leasing it!
Chad

United States

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#636
Aug 24, 2010
 

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When are we going to start putting these jackboot thugs in prison!??..Like they would of me, if I beat someone who didn't say what I liked.
Johnny Rotten

Denver, CO

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#637
Aug 24, 2010
 
Gerrilea wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, I missed your first question, could you re-post it? I can concede your hypothetical points here but that's all we have. Agreed, we don't know what was actually said, without sound. The "dog man" could have called them assholes too. But where in the Constitution does it allow or grant our created gov't the authority to subdue and incarcerate someone for being an a-hole? Even if he threatened them, why did they feel it necessary to abuse their authorities. We can't have it both ways here, if you are disrespectful to cops, you'll get illegally arrested and beaten up. Yet they don't have to protect you when you may need it, because as someone mentioned, they have "discretion". Why didn't they use their discretion here and just ignore him? Because they've gotten too big for their britches!
I'd suggest you read the free online book "Would the Real First Amendment Stand Up", by Krusch.
Here's the link:
http://www.krusch.com/books/Real.pdf
After reading this short 140 ppg book, get back to me. See how the flaws in logic and reasoning have lead to the lies we now must live with caused by bad Supreme Court rulings!
Free speech, shall not be infringed...Period. Very clear language.
We are hardly free today. Only free to buy but not own anything. Check out who actually holds the title to your land or car or even your computer! If you continually pay taxes on something, you don't actually own it. You're leasing it!
You had commented that you manage a group of employees. Something like that. Anyway, I was asking if you have ever had a customer complaint where it looked as though your employee had screwed up, only to later find that the employee did what they were supposed to. That wasn't to pick a fight with you, or to declare the officers innocence. I simply asked that because there have been a lot of extreme viewpoints in these forums, ones who haven't bothered to view the whole video or bothered to keep an open mind as to what happened. I doubt the dog man threatened anyone, but had he made a threat, that would probably change this whole story, no?
Gerrilea

Buffalo, NY

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#638
Aug 24, 2010
 
Johnny Rotten wrote:
<quoted text>You had commented that you manage a group of employees. Something like that. Anyway, I was asking if you have ever had a customer complaint where it looked as though your employee had screwed up, only to later find that the employee did what they were supposed to. That wasn't to pick a fight with you, or to declare the officers innocence. I simply asked that because there have been a lot of extreme viewpoints in these forums, ones who haven't bothered to view the whole video or bothered to keep an open mind as to what happened. I doubt the dog man threatened anyone, but had he made a threat, that would probably change this whole story, no?
OH, sorry, I missed your question. No, I've never had an employee accused by a customer. I personally was in that situation with a customer, but alas, I had video in all parts of my Store that showed the interactions, proving my innocence. My Regional laughed about it though. You get a tough skin to the "whinning public" and if you can't then you shouldn't be serving them.

I could tell stories of how I've been yelled at, threatened, spit on and had my windshield broken, by CUSTOMERS, no less. And because I was the Store Manager, you know what my Company's position was? If you can't control the situation, then we don't need you. You learn quickly to deescalate rude or obnoxious customers. It's truly easier than one thinks. Be nice, polite and respectful. Wins them over almost every time. Take an attitude and it's over. But with that said, our paid public servants need to be retrained.

Even if the "dog man" was rude, obnoxious or even threatening, why didn't they just ignore him and walk away? It was, from what I saw, all about power, an authoritarian power struggle.

It's not me against them, or us against them, never has been, and if people keep seeing it in only those terms, we all lose. Our paid public servants have contempt and vile hatred for those they are hired to serve.

Most Americans are feeling helpless and impotent...we have lost control of our own government....I don't want or need my gov't to tell me what I can and can't do, from what vaccines I must take to the GMO foods that we're forced into eating. I don't want the "nanny state", never did. If someone wants to drive without a seat belt let them, when they die during an accident, that would be "survival of the fittest"...or if they want to do drugs until the have a heart attack, let them...as long as their actions don't interfere with my freedoms, I don't care...and neither should our gov't...

And finally, if our paid servants don't "get it", they need to go back into the private sector. Let them find out how the real world is. They truly have it easy...
CopCastrater

Denver, CO

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#639
Aug 24, 2010
 

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Mike wrote:
<quoted text>Another tough talking college kid with a paintball gun.
You can be in the porno too. I'll make you the star of the bukkake segment.

“It's pronounced DAG-uth.”

Since: Jun 07

Windsor, CO

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#640
Aug 24, 2010
 
I realize you can't give cops immunity, but have you watched "Cops" or "Wildest Police Videos" lately?

Every one of those idiots they have to deal with need to be shot and disposed of. Kill 'em all!
Cop Luvr

Brighton, CO

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#641
Aug 24, 2010
 

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These guys are great, They need raises! Its clear in the 12 min video the dog walker totally raised his voice at officer O'mali.Causing him to get really angry, and notice the other fellow. He's not having it either.Both of them have to react now and possibly restrain him from him taking a picture of the officers."Good work boys Job well done! " ASK BEFORE YOU TAKE SOMEONES PICTURE DOGWALKER! your lucky they didn't shoot you in the back as you walked off.I hear that happens here in ole Denver.
Gerrilea

Buffalo, NY

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#642
Aug 24, 2010
 

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Cop Luvr wrote:
These guys are great, They need raises! Its clear in the 12 min video the dog walker totally raised his voice at officer O'mali.Causing him to get really angry, and notice the other fellow. He's not having it either.Both of them have to react now and possibly restrain him from him taking a picture of the officers."Good work boys Job well done! " ASK BEFORE YOU TAKE SOMEONES PICTURE DOGWALKER! your lucky they didn't shoot you in the back as you walked off.I hear that happens here in ole Denver.
So, forget our Constitution, let these uniformed thugs become, judge, juror and executioner? Paid public servants, while on duty, have no expectation of privacy, especially when they are on public streets.

We The People have no expectation of privacy when we are on public streets, hence the cameras everywhere. If my created gov't wants to become like China or the Former Soviet Union...then we have a problem.

And clearly so do you if you really believe that anyone can do what they want, then "the law" means nothing...

“Holding Their Feet To The Fire”

Since: Aug 07

United States of America

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#643
Aug 24, 2010
 

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jeremy wrote:
Im going through the police academy and it enrages me to see this. Cops like the two of them give cops all over the United States a bad name.
Actually, Jeremy, the "good" cops, as well as the police culture are responsible for bad cops continuing to wreak mayhem on the American public.

Because it's the good cops who keep their mouths shut and look the other way while the bad cops commit their crimes and violate people's civil rights.

Though it is difficult to blame the good cops for keeping their mouth shut when they witness bad cops screwing over the public. Why, you ask?

Because in my experience the good cops are severely outnumbered by the bad cops. If a good cop opens his mouth and tells the truth about what he witnessed another cop doing wrong, the bad cops will make his life a living hell. I've seen a few good cops step forward and do the right thing when they witnessed a bad cop(s) in action. The bad cop's reaction to a good cop doing the right thing is pretty much the same way a father would react if he caught a stranger molesting one of his children. Believe me, it ain't pretty.

70% of all cops I have ever worked with in my 23 years were no better than John Gotti and his family of criminal creeps.

Sadly, the system and the officials ELECTED to run the system protects bad cops. Why, I don't know.

Over my way a cop committed perjury in front of a grand jury.
A sharp defense attorney caught him in his lies. The cop was arrested and charged with felony perjury. The system allowed the cop to plead guilty to a misdemeanor AND keep his job. The system even gave the cop a conditional discharge that allowed the convicted cop to expunge the conviction from his record after two years.

Like I said, the people we elect to office allow bad cops to exist.

I loved police work, but hated many of the people I worked for and with. They were no better than scum you wipe off your shoes after walking through a gutter.
Denver Resident

AOL

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#644
Aug 26, 2010
 
Detective Dick wrote:
<quoted text>Though it is difficult to blame the good cops for keeping their mouth shut when they witness bad cops screwing over the public. Why, you ask?
Because in my experience the good cops are severely outnumbered by the bad cops. If a good cop opens his mouth and tells the truth about what he witnessed another cop doing wrong, the bad cops will make his life a living hell. I've seen a few good cops step forward and do the right thing when they witnessed a bad cop(s) in action. The bad cop's reaction to a good cop doing the right thing is pretty much the same way a father would react if he caught a stranger molesting one of his children. Believe me, it ain't pretty.
A former police chief once compared the police blue wall of silence to the mafia's code of Omerta. Here's just one example of how childish and vengeful cops are to another cop that tells on them. This guy found a mousetrap with his name on it and had to transfer departments out of fear. What's the difference between the police and any street gang??

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/02/24/20...
Denver Resident

AOL

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#645
Aug 26, 2010
 

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Gerrilea wrote:
<quoted text>It's not me against them, or us against them, never has been, and if people keep seeing it in only those terms, we all lose. Our paid public servants have contempt and vile hatred for those they are hired to serve.
Most Americans are feeling helpless and impotent...
With cops like this all over the country, we should feel a little helpless. But it's partially our own fault. Our apathy and the "every public servant is a hero" mantra we were forced to chant after 9-11 has helped to create this mess. Add their unions to the mix, and police became a protected class. One that's full of bullies, dummies, and outright criminals that would never make much of themselves in the private sector. It's not just the ones with the bad attitudes we have to fear:

http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/...

http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/...
Toz

Los Angeles, CA

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#647
Sep 1, 2010
 

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police one wrote:
you know maybe people should have to see things from the cops point of view. They deal with people day in and day out that they have to fight because people cant mind their own business. If this guy would have done what he was told he wouldnt be in the situtition he was in. Also the word is beat not beach pd dpd.
So are you a police officer? Mind there own buisness? we have rights to speak to anyone.
First, speak to your city attorney for advice instead of "cops for dummies". If a witness comes forward and offers to testify in court( offers a opinion on a traffic stop), a peace officer that rights a ticket deter, or disuades that witness from coming forward, is suppressing evidence ( a crime).
If thats the way you operate turn in your badge. You are a corrupt cop.
So they compounded the FIRST crime ( suppressing evidence) with the second crime of assault. They beat the guy in the face for no reason.
Toz

Los Angeles, CA

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#648
Sep 1, 2010
 
G-Rove wrote:
The report on this is extremely misleading and slanderous. I watched all 7 min. 29 sec. of the raw video and this is what I observed:
1. Police talk to man. Man seems agitated and evasive. Police appear to issue ticket/summons. Man pulls out cell phone camera. Police appear to give an order to put it away. Man continues to try to take photos. Police officer grabs man's arm and appears to be trying to escort him away. Man resists by pulling away.
2. Police attempt to restrain man's arms behind back in a control hold and place him in handcuffs. Man pulls away and continues to resist. Man appears to throw a punch at taller officer connecting at the chin. Then man grabs officer's shirt and refuses to let go. Officer repeatedly strikes man until man releases hold on officer.
3. When man releases hold, officer ceases striking man and attempts to gain control of arm. Officers turn man around and put him on the ground on his knees. Officers continue to struggle to gain control of man's arms. Officers finally handcuff man and allow him to sit up. First officer collects dogs and allows them to sit in man's lap. Officers and man resume talking.
Your account is wrong and leaves out the fact that the man obviously set out and was unrelated to the person on traffic stop.

1) writing a ticket to dissuade a witness of a crime from testifying is obstruction of justice.
2) police holds up book to not be photographed.( not a crime to take a picture)
3) man has 2 dogs, from the film is in no position to throw punches.
4) at least 4 strikes even when man is overwhelmed and subdued, he doesnt resist.( police may only use reasonable force to subdue someone.) I would like to see the cross examination of that police officers when knee kicks to the abdomen are in the manual.

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