Secularist Europe Silences Pro-Lifers and Creationists

us ourYF 22s wrote:

What about the fact that right now part of the national pride is a war museum in Aussie with Saddams goplden ak 47, which he should have used, on display there. It was recovered by the American 101st Airborne in Baghdad.

So? A war trophy-- so what?

It's paraded around like some head-on-a-pike, then?

Do we brag, that we ousted a tiny, ineffectual country, with overwhelming odds, with our superior technology and far, far better trained soldiers?

It's like bragging that you can run over a person on a bike, with your armored car....

us ourYF 22s wrote:

what about the blood thirsty M*******rs who cut head off ...that is our fault also huh?

Of course not. Look at the HISTORY of the place-- Bush doesn't BEGIN to comprehend them as a people. Neither do I.

But, I KNOW that I do not know-- which is FAR MORE than Bush demonstrates....

But-- your head-chopping-off example should ONLY serve to be a WARNING: these people are NOT LIKE US.

The do NOT WANT a democracy! They are happy with their Theocracy, their in-fighting, their ethnic cleansing.

Who are WE to infringe on 4,000+ years of Tradition?

Did they ASK us to "help"?

No-- they did not.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

Perhaps its the troops too coz they are the real source of pain

Please. The troops are only doing the job they LITERALLY SWORE to do.

They were ORDERED to do what they do, and I blame THEM not at all.

In fact, IN SPITE of them being in a situation for which THEY WERE NOT TRAINED,(police, and peace-keeping) they are doing very well. Our guys and gals were trained to OCCUPY and CONQUER the enemy.

They are Professional Soldiers-- not policemen!

And, in SPITE of that, they are doing as best as they can, with too -few numbers, inadequate supplies and other SHORTCOMINGS all DIRECTLY by the policy of BUSH.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

...and BTW who gives a good frig if tourism is down...in the arab world.

That is but a SYMPTOM of the larger picture-- and it'd down ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Because of the MUCH HIGHER threat of terrorism-- WORLD WIDE.

And, THAT is something to care about, indeed.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

Amman Jordan just announced a 20 bil dollar project, the Kurds have an int'l airport they didnt have....Kuwait and Kater are booming....watch Arabia business on the weekends.

So?

us ourYF 22s wrote:

You are sadly mistaken with your statement and it really infuriates me...had I not come to like you I would blast off but, I'll pass.

I don't THINK so.

I think you have been listening with your filters on, to too much right-wing propaganda.

Try the BBC, the Christian Science Monitor and NPR for awhile.

Read some NYT.

Open your eyes and ears-- we are NOT safer.

Not at all.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>
Good point. The Saudi women are very liberated--by Muslim standards at least.
For all that the Saudi's are a hotbed of terrorist support, at least they are progressive (relatively) about that.

Actually, at least in the larger urban areas, many Iranian women are quite progressive and modern as well...but not in public. An old boss and friend of mine is Iranian of origin and has many friends and some family still there. He said that in Tehran and other large cities, people are very Westernized in their homes and amongst friends, and then put on a different face in public. Up until the nutcase took over thanks to a wave of anti-Western sentiment, Iranian society was becoming quite moderate and the extremist mullahs were losing power in that country.

Dennis2 wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, at least in the larger urban areas, many Iranian women are quite progressive and modern as well...but not in public. An old boss and friend of mine is Iranian of origin and has many friends and some family still there. He said that in Tehran and other large cities, people are very Westernized in their homes and amongst friends, and then put on a different face in public. Up until the nutcase took over thanks to a wave of anti-Western sentiment, Iranian society was becoming quite moderate and the extremist mullahs were losing power in that country.

Yeah. Sad, isn't it?

Sometimes I think we are our OWN worst enemies.....

Dennis2 wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, at least in the larger urban areas, many Iranian women are quite progressive and modern as well...but not in public. An old boss and friend of mine is Iranian of origin and has many friends and some family still there. He said that in Tehran and other large cities, people are very Westernized in their homes and amongst friends, and then put on a different face in public. Up until the nutcase took over thanks to a wave of anti-Western sentiment, Iranian society was becoming quite moderate and the extremist mullahs were losing power in that country.

I have been following Irsha Amnji's website and Queen Abdullahs site for some time now. Both are dojng asmazing things and need to get more media attention. Theres also a powerful woman in the Afghan Parlaiment who was in the news. The west doesnt cover much of this stuff because it isnt sensational.

Manji stated this past week at a book signing what she thought was a good approach.

First thing is Islam looks at the Koran and Mohammads life in literal terms. Mohammads wife was the bread winner and therfore she said that any Muslim female could go into business and hence become educated.
Also, it is the women who have the least to lose and the most to gain in breaking away from fundamentlist islamic fanatics.

If you look at history the impact of women who started large sweeping womens, the list is very lengthy. Start with Florence Nightingale, pioneer of modern nursing. Mother Teresa, Susan B. Anthony, Indira Gandhi...the list goes on and on.

Irshad Manji has begun an important refusenik movement. She calls herself a dissedent and not a reformer. She says others will come to reform she is just a voice and looks for more.

"Because someone had to do it"
"Because I have hopes for my people, for my country, and I have supporters around the world, and I am happy that at least I am not alone," she explains. "And I trust my people and I believe in democracy, women's rights and human rights and I believe this isn't something that's given and we must make sacrifices."

Joya is visiting New York this week in conjunction with screenings of Enemies of Happiness, an hour-long film about her 2003 run for Afghan public office, playing at the Human Rights Watch International Film Festival. The documentary has won multiple awards at international film festivals, including Human Rights Watch's Nestor Almendros Prize for courage in filmmaking.

http://www.malalaijoya.com/index800.htm

Irshad Manji...faith without fear
http://irshadmanji.com/
A Muslim woman author, once described as Osama bin Laden's worst nightmare, is to call for the setting up of an Islamic reform movement to press for a change in the faith's attitudes towards human rights, women and pluralist societies at a public meeting this week.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story...

PBS's left wing agenda banned the airing of Muslims against jihad and in doing so kept an important story of a group of women and men who live in Europe who are fighting Jihad from airing in Americas. PBS gets public funding and should sanctioned or at least an email bombardment for doing this. I saw the video , it was not slanted and it did show what is going on in Europe. Public broadcasting doesn't stop Democracy Now from airing their agenda driven news show.

Christiane Amanpour aired her show on the UK and its extremist problem. Evidence sufacing of the same as I write this with car bombs planted in downtown London.

[QUOTE who=" us ourYF 22s.
Christiane Amanpour aired her show on the UK and its extremist problem. Evidence sufacing of the same as I write this with car bombs planted in downtown London.[/QUOTE]

A Happy 4th of July to you my dear friend. Because i have been associated with Islam since early childhood, i am able to agree with you on just about all you have written about the dangers of Islam. My youngest son, even has close relatives on the Iranian/Iraqi border. So I do just keep my eyes open so far so good, at least as the government and news media goes hmmm...

us ourYF 22s wrote:

PBS's left wing agenda...

LOL!!!

If you don't LIKE it-- watch Faux News, then!

LOL!!!!

"left wing agenda".... what a laugh.

It's sad, when someone is SO FAR to the right, that they look at the MIDDLE and say, "That is LEFT-WING".....

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>
It's sad, when someone is SO FAR to the right, that they look at the MIDDLE and say, "That is LEFT-WING".....

Brilliantly humourous, yet a very interesting perspective...as usual, Bob!

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>
Try the BBC, the Christian Science Monitor and NPR for awhile.
Read some NYT.
Open your eyes and ears-- we are NOT safer.
Not at all.

you know what Bob...you are now the straw that broke my back...I've had enough of you and those like you putting me and other good christians in the same group as those who are ignnorant....as if I am part of some vengful blind torch bearer....I'm retiring from this bullshit...for now..or maybe for good.....it does me no real good to read the same old dumb accusations and BTW...I log more hours watching the left wing BBC every day...

And if you think we arent safer you are sadly mistaken...take a good look at what has happened to the Brits since they announced they're leaving Iraq...you would have our kids get shot as they retrat...

Do you know how Democrat babies are born???? with their hands UP!!!!.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

Do you know how Democrat babies are born???? with their hands UP!!!!.

I wouldn't know, I'm a libertarian.

On the other hand, I could make some republican-baby jokes-- but it'd be too close to the truth, so I won't.

Sekhmet wrote:

<quoted text>
A Happy 4th of July to you my dear friend. Because i have been associated with Islam since early childhood, i am able to agree with you on just about all you have written about the dangers of Islam. My youngest son, even has close relatives on the Iranian/Iraqi border. So I do just keep my eyes open so far so good, at least as the government and news media goes hmmm...

And Happy Fourth to you also Sekhmet. And many thanks for being so Christian-like in your understanding....

Hey, I saw a guy who wrote a book, a former Islamist. He lives in the UK and his book is tiled "The Islamist". I'm am going to get it and this coming week heading to the beach. Sun, surf a book and the sound of the ocean crashing ought to do my soul some good. Some think that Christians should make themselves a doormat and forgive the same people over and over...I don't prescribe to the notion of making myself available to be walked on over and over. I hope I haven't offended your feminine sensibilities with regards to Hillary. Had she been my daughter, I would advise her to leave him long ago but then, I'm old fashioned like that...expecting people to keep their vows.

Here's a site I been reading. For some unknown reason, the Saudis aren't being called on the carpet for their part in all this mess with Islam. It is the Madrassa schools which begin the indoctrination. It's so bad that they even get people who have these grand education's...you know...intellectuals don't like to admit that knowledge is not a vaccination against extremism. Just about every one of the terror bombers and 9/11 hijackers had initials behind their names. So much for education as a cure huh?

This sarcasm is for your enjoyment and not meant AT YOU...hehe

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printabl...
"The Roots of Terror are in Saudi Arabia."
By MEMRI
MEMRI.org | June 20, 2003

Following the bombings in Riyadh on May 12, 2003, the deputy editor of the independent Egyptian weekly Roz Al-Yousef, Wael Al-Abrashi, who is also an expert on Sunni terrorist movements, wrote several articles on Saudi Wahhabism and the development of Islamist terror. The following are excerpts from Al-Abrashi's article:

A Wahhabi World View

In an article published on May 31, 2003 in Roz Al-Yousef, Al-Abrashi wrote: "A Wahhabi Saudi sheikh warned young people not to speak English and not to try to study it. He swallowed his saliva, wet his lips, and screamed:'This is the language of the infidels, to the point where it has the word 'blease'['please'], which is derived from iblis [Satan]. This is the language of the devil…'"

Sekhmet wrote:

<quoted text>
A Happy 4th of July to you my dear friend. Because i have been associated with Islam since early childhood, i am able to agree with you on just about all you have written about the dangers of Islam. My youngest son, even has close relatives on the Iranian/Iraqi border. So I do just keep my eyes open so far so good, at least as the government and news media goes hmmm...

National Geographic is airing the search for lost Treasure from Iraq. Some of it went missing after the first Gulf War. Beautiful precious stuff. Golden adornments that date before Cleopatra....150 pounds of Gold....wow.....thats is alot of big macs and fries...
"Iraq Museum Database
No other museum can rival the collections of Mesopotamian artifacts in the Iraq Museum. Spanning a time from before 9,000 B.C. well into to the Islamic period, the Iraq Museum's collections includes some of the earliest tools man ever made, painted polychrome ceramics from the 6th millennium B.C., a relief-decorated cult vase from Uruk, famous gold treasures from the Royal Cemetery at Ur, Sumerian votive statues from Tell Asmar, Assyrian reliefs and bull figures from the Assyrian capitals of Nimrud, Nineveh, and Khorsabad, and Islamic pottery and coins--an unrivaled treasure not only for Iraq, but for all mankind"
http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/IRAQ/dbfiles/Iraqda...
Sekhmet...you know those "evil" american soldiers....hehe read on. Typical left wing press picked on the wrong person,. I would have loved to have access to those things , how about you?
Monday November 21, 2005
The Guardian
On April 15, 2003, in the Iraqi city of Basra, an enraged British journalist whose name has been lost to history stormed up to a US marine colonel and his men and denounced them as "macho assholes". The colonel had been looking for weapons and cash left behind by the ousted Iraqi regime, but this reporter believed fiercely that he should be more concerned that "the finest museum in the world has just been looted".

PART TWO
I suppose this soldier was to sacrifice his men to save an art treasure. Americans didnt loot it...the Iraqia, who have no sense of self did.
"By a peculiar turn of fate, she had stumbled on the one person in the whole of modern Mesopotamia who both cared deeply about the cultural calamity at Baghdad's Iraq museum and possessed the expertise, determination and clout to do something about it. His name was Matthew Bogdanos - a Greek-American classics scholar and a New York prosecutor, whose toughness and tenacity had earned him the nickname "pit bull" even before he went off to fight the "war on terror".
Colonel Bogdanos cannot remember the name of the reporter who vented her frustration at him, but she appears to have set off an extraordinary train of events. Five days after the encounter, he had overcome the objections of his superior officers and was at the gates of the Baghdad museum, heading a mixed bag of volunteer soldiers and investigators, ready to hunt down Iraq's lost legacy.

What followed over the next two years was an epic feat of wartime sleuthing which took Bogdanos along a trail from pitch-black underground chambers and submerged bank vaults in Baghdad to the sleek antiquity dealerships of Madison Avenue, in pursuit of lost treasures with Harry Potterish names, such as the Sacred Vase of Warka. Along the way, more than 5,000 artworks, including unique pieces from the first fluttering of civilisation, were recovered. Bogdanos left active duty in the marines last month, but he is still on the hunt for the thousands of objects still unaccounted for. When he returns to the Manhattan district attorney's office, where he worked before the September 11 attacks, he has permission, he says, to set up a new arts and antiquities "
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/baghdadmuseum/stor...

us ourYF 22s wrote:

...expecting people to keep their vows.

Yessss.. And LEAVING/DIVORCE is SUCH a fine, fine example of KEEPING them, too.....

Such strength of character---not.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

We are so powerful now that we have have adopted the term of self-deterance. We have either a too small or too large footprint.
Hypersonics might change that. When Clinton fired on Afghanistan it took hours to arrive and Binladin knew he had something coming and thus moved. He or anyone who is an imminent danger can be hit within minutes, anywhere.
I saw where Smart Bullets are in the making.
People say we arent safer now, which I say is not true. I notice all these threats are on foreign soils. What the news people wont let us see is the real face of islam here. Moyers and PBS shelved the show that Fox picked up saying it wasnt balanced.....as if we are going after muslim males between 17-40 out of unfounded fears.....show me one act of terror or a beheading not done by this group.

Do you hold Bush responsible for not getting Bin Laden when he had the chance?

us ourYF 22s wrote:

PART TWO
I suppose this soldier was to sacrifice his men to save an art treasure. Americans didnt loot it...the Iraqia, who have no sense of self did.
"By a peculiar turn of fate, she had stumbled on the one person in the whole of modern Mesopotamia who both cared deeply about the cultural calamity at Baghdad's Iraq museum and possessed the expertise, determination and clout to do something about it. His name was Matthew Bogdanos - a Greek-American classics scholar and a New York prosecutor, whose toughness and tenacity had earned him the nickname "pit bull" even before he went off to fight the "war on terror".
Colonel Bogdanos cannot remember the name of the reporter who vented her frustration at him, but she appears to have set off an extraordinary train of events. Five days after the encounter, he had overcome the objections of his superior officers and was at the gates of the Baghdad museum, heading a mixed bag of volunteer soldiers and investigators, ready to hunt down Iraq's lost legacy.
What followed over the next two years was an epic feat of wartime sleuthing which took Bogdanos along a trail from pitch-black underground chambers and submerged bank vaults in Baghdad to the sleek antiquity dealerships of Madison Avenue, in pursuit of lost treasures with Harry Potterish names, such as the Sacred Vase of Warka. Along the way, more than 5,000 artworks, including unique pieces from the first fluttering of civilisation, were recovered. Bogdanos left active duty in the marines last month, but he is still on the hunt for the thousands of objects still unaccounted for. When he returns to the Manhattan district attorney's office, where he worked before the September 11 attacks, he has permission, he says, to set up a new arts and antiquities "
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/baghdadmuseum/stor...

I suppose it was worth risking American lives to protect the oil ministry at the same time that a countries cultural heritage was being gutted.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

<quoted text>you know what Bob...you are now the straw that broke my back...I've had enough of you and those like you putting me and other good christians in the same group as those who are ignnorant....as if I am part of some vengful blind torch bearer....I'm retiring from this bullshit...for now..or maybe for good.....it does me no real good to read the same old dumb accusations and BTW...I log more hours watching the left wing BBC every day...
And if you think we arent safer you are sadly mistaken...take a good look at what has happened to the Brits since they announced they're leaving Iraq...you would have our kids get shot as they retrat...
Do you know how Democrat babies are born???? with their hands UP!!!!.

I would be very surprised if your family had more soldiers participate in and die in American wars than the long line of Democrats who have served our country from my family.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>
Yessss.. And LEAVING/DIVORCE is SUCH a fine, fine example of KEEPING them, too.....
Such strength of character---not.

Strength of character does not equal does not require one to become a doormat.

us ourYF 22s wrote:

<quoted text>Strength of character does not equal does not require one to become a doormat.

Whatever, Ray. Your obvious hatred for the Clintons blinds you to anything anyone could possibly say in their defense.

left of Limbaugh wrote:

<quoted text>
I would be very surprised if your family had more soldiers participate in and die in American wars than the long line of Democrats who have served our country from my family.

I would be surprised if that empty space between your ears was any smaller than your huge unfounded EGO.

First of all, how is there a way for me to know....Half of my family is from Greece and England....think of those possibilities. The Greek bloodline goes back for hundreds of yrs before this country was even a dream of the Fathers....so????

The other half that carried my last name is listed on the Mayflower, It's unique and is a synonym for minister.

I have met one other person my whole life who carries that name. My sister checked it out and said this person had no family but, apparently they got here somehow. I traced it backed to mid 1800's and have no clue as to service. I don't think it would matter much anyway.

Even if your Uncle served in WW2, which is highly possible as mine did, how would that reflect on you? How does that put points in your small world really?
My Uncle came home with some sort of skin disorder from the Pacific from defolliage. It was ugly and it doesnt mean a thing, not no-thing with regards to me....

I would not disparage any of my relatives by trying to sit on top of their sacrifices for my own glory...its foolish and selfish. However, carry on "Soldier"

Besides that, what difference is there between a guy who planted the Flag on some Japanese Island and someone who carried ammunition to a battery? Every GOOD soldier is expected to do his/her duty.(Paraphrased from Lord Nelson.)