UCI says USADA has yet to supply information in Lance Armstrong case

Sep 15, 2012 Full story: Velonews 22

The Union Cycliste Internationale said Saturday it was still awaiting a report from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency explaining its disciplinary actions against Lance Armstrong.

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Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#1 Sep 15, 2012
WHAT FINDINGS? please show and let the World know what you have,or rather,what you HAVEN'T!
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#4 Sep 16, 2012
Wang Im sure you appreciate this is not a simple did he or didnt he it goes wider deeper and further than that.

The longer USADA take on this the worse it gets for them. The Federal Judge already said their evidence was so slim they had no idea what case they believed they had to present and he also chastised them for not issuing it to Armstrong who he said had a charge sheet that could not be substantiated with the evidence supplied. It wasnt a hearing on the case but a temporary retraining order on jurisdiction.

If this was a Legal case again it would end up like the last one, in the bin.

That doesnt say he did or did not dope it says they cant prove it to the satisfaction of a Court of Law.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#5 Sep 18, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
Wang Im sure you appreciate this is not a simple did he or didnt he it goes wider deeper and further than that.
The longer USADA take on this the worse it gets for them. The Federal Judge already said their evidence was so slim they had no idea what case they believed they had to present and he also chastised them for not issuing it to Armstrong who he said had a charge sheet that could not be substantiated with the evidence supplied. It wasnt a hearing on the case but a temporary retraining order on jurisdiction.
If this was a Legal case again it would end up like the last one, in the bin.
That doesnt say he did or did not dope it says they cant prove it to the satisfaction of a Court of Law.
I am sorry if this looks like i am trying to question what you are saying GeeMan, but it is clear that what you imply is incorrect. Also as you are well aware the USADA are not bringing a legal case to be tried in the USA courts of law so please stop muddying the waters by comparing the two (they are not the same and should not be viewed in anyway of being so) Also the temporary restraining order on jurisdiction was applied for by LA lawyers and is exactly what it says it is. Not an examination of USADA's evidence or anything resembling that. If i am mistaken or just wrong i apologize in advance.
Turtle
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#6 Sep 18, 2012
turtle the comments from the Judge were from a Legal Ruling based on the evidence submitted to support each case so its not muddying any waters these are factual statements from a Law Lord on the matter.
The Judge reviewed ALL USADA case file and made his comments so you are wrong in your statements as he seen everything they had. It wa srequired to determine jurisdiction as well as civil liberty issues traised by LA team.

You know all of this as you are citing sections from the case report and as you are aware the Jdge stated USADA do not have a case to support the charge sheet issued and their approach had serious civil liberty issues.
LA team were also chasticed for their sensationlism approach

The same evidence was thrown in the bin by the US Justice Dept when the DA told them it would be thrown out as soon as it was presented, another fact from their 2 year legal pursuit of him for Fraud during his time at USP.

It is also worth noting he wasnt the only rider there at the time but he was the only being charged with Fraud, strange? Another reason they told them to STOP and bin it.

The point you clearly over look turtle is that you rightly say it was a hearing not a Legal case as that was dropped earlier as noted above so it did not have any Legal commentary at all on the evidence or the security of it. LA has now managed to secure a Federal commentary on the case even though its not a Fedral issue and the comments against USADA are damning as you well know.

I assume that you also are aware that it was USADA who leaked the information to the Press ahead of the charge sheet being issued and ahead of the Federal Court ruling which is strictly against the Code of Conduct they works to. They are also breaking their own code, in addition to the other rules they have broken to get this far, by not issuing the evidence as soon as they make judgement on an athlete to substantiate their case.

USADA cannot be defended in their work on this matter regardless if they are 100% right or wrong.

it may not be a Legal Hearing they are offering but as well know if it was it would last 2 minutes as demonstrated by the US Government own admission.

If its about finding guilt at any cost we should dunk him the river and if he drowns he is innocent but if he survives hes guilty and we burn him.
That was an accepted form of justice once upon a time just like accusing someone in Russia of being anti communist gets you privilages and the accused jail.

Its not about the bike, the athlete, the innocence or guilt in this matter its about fixing the game to win which I cannot endorse at any cost because even if he is guilty which I suspect he is based on my knowledge over the years in/around cycling the methods used will find inncent athletes guilty as a result, not acceptable.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#7 Sep 18, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
turtle the comments from the Judge were from a Legal Ruling based on the evidence submitted to support each case so its not muddying any waters these are factual statements from a Law Lord on the matter.
The Judge reviewed ALL USADA case file and made his comments so you are wrong in your statements as he seen everything they had. It wa srequired to determine jurisdiction as well as civil liberty issues traised by LA team.
You know all of this as you are citing sections from the case report and as you are aware the Jdge stated USADA do not have a case to support the charge sheet issued and their approach had serious civil liberty issues.
LA team were also chasticed for their sensationlism approach
The same evidence was thrown in the bin by the US Justice Dept when the DA told them it would be thrown out as soon as it was presented, another fact from their 2 year legal pursuit of him for Fraud during his time at USP.
It is also worth noting he wasnt the only rider there at the time but he was the only being charged with Fraud, strange? Another reason they told them to STOP and bin it.
The point you clearly over look turtle is that you rightly say it was a hearing not a Legal case as that was dropped earlier as noted above so it did not have any Legal commentary at all on the evidence or the security of it. LA has now managed to secure a Federal commentary on the case even though its not a Fedral issue and the comments against USADA are damning as you well know.
I assume that you also are aware that it was USADA who leaked the information to the Press ahead of the charge sheet being issued and ahead of the Federal Court ruling which is strictly against the Code of Conduct they works to. They are also breaking their own code, in addition to the other rules they have broken to get this far, by not issuing the evidence as soon as they make judgement on an athlete to substantiate their case.
USADA cannot be defended in their work on this matter regardless if they are 100% right or wrong.
it may not be a Legal Hearing they are offering but as well know if it was it would last 2 minutes as demonstrated by the US Government own admission.
If its about finding guilt at any cost we should dunk him the river and if he drowns he is innocent but if he survives hes guilty and we burn him.
That was an accepted form of justice once upon a time just like accusing someone in Russia of being anti communist gets you privilages and the accused jail.
Its not about the bike, the athlete, the innocence or guilt in this matter its about fixing the game to win which I cannot endorse at any cost because even if he is guilty which I suspect he is based on my knowledge over the years in/around cycling the methods used will find inncent athletes guilty as a result, not acceptable.
i am pretty sure it was a legal ruling on a temporary restraining order on jurisdiction. nothing else/ just that. again if i am wrong ect ect apologize . Now i must sleep !!!!!
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#8 Sep 19, 2012
The Judges summing up was made public and covered everything, both Legal Teams approach and evidence even though the case was mainly about Jurisdiction.

Both Legal teams were criticised and USADA told their evidence was not sufficent to substantiate the charge sheet issued.

If you search the web for the Judges name and summing up statement it is all there.

Until I read this I was of the opinion that USADA regardless of their past record would have securely collected their evidence bearing in mind it was LA they were after and not an average athlete with limited resources. That unfortunately was not the case and they appear to have much less secure evidence than normal.

The most recent statement I have seen is on here and states the USADA should be in a position within 2 weeks to issue the Report required by WADA, UCI, US Triathlon and most likley the US Cycling as well in addition to LA himself.

If LA had decided to accept the hearing how did USADA intend to deal with evidence if they have not completed it. That is not just strange but totally wrong. Whilst it can be accepted there shall always be fine tuning of Case details as you go to Court USADA should have had everything fully in place within a couple of weeks of their Charge Sheet being issued to LA and not the 3 months it has taken to date (12 June charge sheet was issued).

It absolutely reeks of being wrong and it appears USADA believe they have the right to do what they want, when they want and deprive everyone and everybody of evidence they are saying is clear to see but cannot produce in any form let alone a cogent and convincing one.

My cynical side of life is becoming far more alerted in this whole matter as it is taking a road I do not believe anyone envisaged!
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#9 Sep 19, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
The Judges summing up was made public and covered everything, both Legal Teams approach and evidence even though the case was mainly about Jurisdiction.
Both Legal teams were criticised and USADA told their evidence was not sufficent to substantiate the charge sheet issued.
If you search the web for the Judges name and summing up statement it is all there.
Until I read this I was of the opinion that USADA regardless of their past record would have securely collected their evidence bearing in mind it was LA they were after and not an average athlete with limited resources. That unfortunately was not the case and they appear to have much less secure evidence than normal.
The most recent statement I have seen is on here and states the USADA should be in a position within 2 weeks to issue the Report required by WADA, UCI, US Triathlon and most likley the US Cycling as well in addition to LA himself.
If LA had decided to accept the hearing how did USADA intend to deal with evidence if they have not completed it. That is not just strange but totally wrong. Whilst it can be accepted there shall always be fine tuning of Case details as you go to Court USADA should have had everything fully in place within a couple of weeks of their Charge Sheet being issued to LA and not the 3 months it has taken to date (12 June charge sheet was issued).
It absolutely reeks of being wrong and it appears USADA believe they have the right to do what they want, when they want and deprive everyone and everybody of evidence they are saying is clear to see but cannot produce in any form let alone a cogent and convincing one.
My cynical side of life is becoming far more alerted in this whole matter as it is taking a road I do not believe anyone envisaged!
yes i get all that but do disagree with you when you move from the facts to your opinion of them. But hey ho we all need to look at things a little different or the world would be boring. But back to what i asked or said above, was the judge in the city of austin texas, Sam sparks, ruling on a case of temporary restraining order of jurisdiction. If that is what the hearing was about that is all that matters that ruling , his comments , opinions of everything else are not really relevant.
Anyway as i say we all see things differently, but i do find it amazing that you think the USADA is on some kind of crazy mission for armstrong. There doing their jobs , but before you say it i know you think they are doing their jobs in a unconstitutional way.
Why the passion for this ?
Maybe the USADA are showing a passion and zeal because they feel that the way Arstrong has lied and cheated during competition is worth exposing the same way you feel you have to do your thing here ? The whole reason i replied to any of your posts was that i felt you were mixing a lot of opinions with your facts. Was i wrong or right,, who cares. But if you want cycling to stop having this problem you need to support cycling and its battle with cheats. Anyone who cheats and then lies to many cyclist fans over and over again perpetuating the problem needs to be stopped. And their achievements wiped from the records. The zeal and energy and resources used by the cheats need to be matched by those trying to prevent them from sullying our sport any further. If you feel that LA becoming president or his lawyers taking people down is important then ok. I want cycling to be a drug/cheat free sport. Thats what matters here.
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#10 Sep 19, 2012
turtle these are not opinions as I have said before they are taken from the recorded statement from the Judge.

I am also unsure how you appraise a Judges summary comments in a Court of Law not having any Legal standing. If he records it then it is held on Record as his findings, its a Legal statement.
Its not there to be cherry picked what you lke and dont like, every word and statement have an equal weighting from him.

Its clear you dont understand that and that you have only read snap shot extracts from the summary statement and not his full statement which I have read and commented on.

My passion in this is not USADA or Armstrong but the effects it could have if it is allowed to stand. All you need is a bigger group of witnesses than the opposition to win. That system was dissolved not too long ago in Russia and not something you need or want to return.
Just because they are a government agency dont presume they are doing their jobs correctly or even dilligently.

Nixon did a good job?

As you are English turtle did the Yorkshire Police do a good job lying about Liverpool fans saying they were looting dead bodies and caused the problems there at Hillsborough? Its clear they not only lied but created a massive fraud so they could save their own incompetent faces and if the victims families did not fight it the truth would never have been seen.

Never assume a government agaency or body ever do what is right and just all the time because they dont and if you assume it you are a complete idiot.

Your statements about not seeing an issue mixing facts with fiction is the reason these issues exist and USADA and the Government agencies could use someone like you, Why let the truth get in the way of a better story.

I dont mind debating with someone but try and use facts and not ill informed nonsense and opinion.

The ideal of a drug free Sport is about as likely as it was keeping it Amateur whilst some were professionals others wernt and they had to change it and now look at the earnings. PED's will go the same way and all it needs is a few laws to control it and create a new Industry for Governments to make money by administration and taxes. Thats the way it goes in life and we shall see it happen in the next 10 years.

turtle in closing please go and look at the facts and become involved with facts instead of opinions as you have some decent thisngs to say but spoiled by assumptions.

Just so you know also its not just Governments I dont trust its everyone. I work on the basis of do something to make me trust and respect you and dont expect it because you say so.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#11 Sep 19, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
turtle these are not opinions as I have said before they are taken from the recorded statement from the Judge.
I am also unsure how you appraise a Judges summary comments in a Court of Law not having any Legal standing. If he records it then it is held on Record as his findings, its a Legal statement.
Its not there to be cherry picked what you lke and dont like, every word and statement have an equal weighting from him.
Its clear you dont understand that and that you have only read snap shot extracts from the summary statement and not his full statement which I have read and commented on.
My passion in this is not USADA or Armstrong but the effects it could have if it is allowed to stand. All you need is a bigger group of witnesses than the opposition to win. That system was dissolved not too long ago in Russia and not something you need or want to return.
Just because they are a government agency dont presume they are doing their jobs correctly or even dilligently.
Nixon did a good job?
As you are English turtle did the Yorkshire Police do a good job lying about Liverpool fans saying they were looting dead bodies and caused the problems there at Hillsborough? Its clear they not only lied but created a massive fraud so they could save their own incompetent faces and if the victims families did not fight it the truth would never have been seen.
Never assume a government agaency or body ever do what is right and just all the time because they dont and if you assume it you are a complete idiot.
Your statements about not seeing an issue mixing facts with fiction is the reason these issues exist and USADA and the Government agencies could use someone like you, Why let the truth get in the way of a better story.
I dont mind debating with someone but try and use facts and not ill informed nonsense and opinion.
The ideal of a drug free Sport is about as likely as it was keeping it Amateur whilst some were professionals others wernt and they had to change it and now look at the earnings. PED's will go the same way and all it needs is a few laws to control it and create a new Industry for Governments to make money by administration and taxes. Thats the way it goes in life and we shall see it happen in the next 10 years.
turtle in closing please go and look at the facts and become involved with facts instead of opinions as you have some decent thisngs to say but spoiled by assumptions.
Just so you know also its not just Governments I dont trust its everyone. I work on the basis of do something to make me trust and respect you and dont expect it because you say so.
I give up, its like talking to LA himself. Please look back on your past posts and use the acumen and enthusiasm you use on others to your own. You will find a lot of facts interspersed with opinion, even some future soothsaying. Like i said it takes all sorts, but judge others as you would yourself.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#12 Sep 19, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
turtle these are not opinions as I have said before they are taken from the recorded statement from the Judge.
I am also unsure how you appraise a Judges summary comments in a Court of Law not having any Legal standing. If he records it then it is held on Record as his findings, its a Legal statement.
Its not there to be cherry picked what you lke and dont like, every word and statement have an equal weighting from him.
Its clear you dont understand that and that you have only read snap shot extracts from the summary statement and not his full statement which I have read and commented on.
My passion in this is not USADA or Armstrong but the effects it could have if it is allowed to stand. All you need is a bigger group of witnesses than the opposition to win. That system was dissolved not too long ago in Russia and not something you need or want to return.
Just because they are a government agency dont presume they are doing their jobs correctly or even dilligently.
Nixon did a good job?
As you are English turtle did the Yorkshire Police do a good job lying about Liverpool fans saying they were looting dead bodies and caused the problems there at Hillsborough? Its clear they not only lied but created a massive fraud so they could save their own incompetent faces and if the victims families did not fight it the truth would never have been seen.
Never assume a government agaency or body ever do what is right and just all the time because they dont and if you assume it you are a complete idiot.
Your statements about not seeing an issue mixing facts with fiction is the reason these issues exist and USADA and the Government agencies could use someone like you, Why let the truth get in the way of a better story.
I dont mind debating with someone but try and use facts and not ill informed nonsense and opinion.
The ideal of a drug free Sport is about as likely as it was keeping it Amateur whilst some were professionals others wernt and they had to change it and now look at the earnings. PED's will go the same way and all it needs is a few laws to control it and create a new Industry for Governments to make money by administration and taxes. Thats the way it goes in life and we shall see it happen in the next 10 years.
turtle in closing please go and look at the facts and become involved with facts instead of opinions as you have some decent thisngs to say but spoiled by assumptions.
Just so you know also its not just Governments I dont trust its everyone. I work on the basis of do something to make me trust and respect you and dont expect it because you say so.
oh and just as an example of this. I am not English and maybe you should not of " assumed " i was, before going on a reference to the South Yorkshire police department. Anyhow, we all make mistakes. oH and i am quite sure usada is not a goverment agency. Maybe you might want to check some of those facts. I am not trying to be snotty or nitpicking or annoying. We all make mistakes, me you everyone and i take no pleasure highlighting these very minor ones here. So please lets be friends.
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#14 Sep 19, 2012
''WILL'' the whistler has whistled...out of hie Poe-Hole!
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#15 Sep 19, 2012
...out of his Poe-Hole!
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#18 Sep 20, 2012
wang thats another great post. Its great to know whats on your mind.

I think you summed YOURSELF up very well there!

Any more words of wisdom we can all learn from?

Any more abusive posts you want to make?
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#20 Sep 20, 2012
wang - Posts to you are short as you never say anything worth commenting on.

I am sure your next post will be as riveting as the others with some abuse which you appear to be unable to communicate without.
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#22 Sep 20, 2012
wang - thanks for not dissapointing me with your rant above.

If you would just take time to read posts and try to understand what is being said instead of just making stuff up and adding abuse where you cannot articulate or substantiate your comments. Otherwise you are just what you are coming across as, an empty vessel that when you beat it, it makes a lot of noise.

All you need to do is post here where I have said he never cheated!

Let me know if you need any help with it.
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#24 Sep 20, 2012
wang - refer to my previous post for comments on your post above.

I shall still look forward to your next post, being the forever optimist that I am. There is also the hope that if you live long enough wang, there is a mathematical chance you will say something that means something and also the possibility, albeit far slimmer, that it will have some sort credibility.

Less abuse this time so there is hope for you.
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#26 Sep 21, 2012
...same old ''WILL''
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#27 Sep 21, 2012
wang you dont dissapoint I shall give you that.

Bit of the abuse comig back into posts though and I thought you were starting to mature with this!

I have no idea what you have been going on about or are now going on about, big brain or not.

Your previous posts dont say anything so it would be pointless for me try and decipher what you are going on about just now....have you actually worked it out yet?
Why dont you just share it and we shall all know.

I will look forward to your next post.
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#29 Sep 21, 2012
wang - I suspect you have just given us all an insight to your Life!

I am sure of you look hard enough you will find some sites where you can get help for what is wrong with you.
GeeMan

Bo'ness, UK

#31 Sep 21, 2012
wang - not at all.

Have you any more abuse left?

Any cogent comments to make?

Any new addresses to add to your posts!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

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