Lance Armstrong Tour de France titles in jeopardy

http://www.topix.net/topstories/lance-armstro...

Anyone who follows dopers like Armstrong is a sucker. He got cancer most likely from steroid use. He's a jerk on wheels.

Does anyone actually trust any athlete today?

ALL professional sports has gone the way of Big Time Wrestling and sports consumers are like Soap Opera suckers.

Anybody who knows anything about cycling knows that Lance is a cheat. His best friends Floyd, Tyler and George all said he took it. His super human performances are very suspicious. Even the governing body has been on him for years.

JEALOUS PATSIES wrote:

Go to hell and leave Lance Armstrong ALONE! The man beat CANCER, beat everybody who rides a bike, passed 500 drug tests.... now his JEALOUS team mates who LOST to LANCE so many times need some "attention" because they cant win a race to get it!!!
STFU with all the Armstrong doping bullsh*t!
I could care less if he did or didnt... he is a winner PERIOD!

Marion Jones passed drugs tests and eventually got caught. The medical staff enabled Armstrong and others by dosing or monitoring them to pass drug tests. And Lance makes a couple of "donations" to the organization responsible for policing/drug testing the cyclists? Doesn't exactly proove innocence.

This is not a persecution but a prosecution of Armstrong who pledged to have a drug free cycling team. Where some of their members have been suspected of or testing positive for peds/illegal/banned substances. Lance accepted a million dollars for this drug free pledge from the US Postal Service as well. Basically breach of contract.

I'd like to see him and others nailed for ILLEGAL drug trafficing as well

I'm glad our government has nothing better to do!! Perhaps next they can go after baseball...Oh, nevermind..

Juicer Juicer Juicer Juicer

Interesting points, yet two themes havn't been answered.

1. How has Lance Armstrong been able to beat so many drugs tests during all of those races through all of those years?

2. Since it is believed that Lance Armstrong and all of the riders have taken illegal drugs on his cycling team during all of those years and races, then why:

a. Did Tyler Hamilton only get caught cheating after he went to another team?

b. Did Floyd Landis only get caught cheating after he went to another team?

c. Did George Hancapi not get caught after he went to other teams?

My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:

Interesting points, yet two themes havn't been answered.
1. How has Lance Armstrong been able to beat so many drugs tests during all of those races through all of those years?
2. Since it is believed that Lance Armstrong and all of the riders have taken illegal drugs on his cycling team during all of those years and races, then why:
a. Did Tyler Hamilton only get caught cheating after he went to another team?
b. Did Floyd Landis only get caught cheating after he went to another team?
c. Did George Hancapi not get caught after he went to other teams?

Lance had nothing to BEAT,since he said he didn't indulge!

My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:

Interesting points, yet two themes havn't been answered.
1. How has Lance Armstrong been able to beat so many drugs tests during all of those races through all of those years?
2. Since it is believed that Lance Armstrong and all of the riders have taken illegal drugs on his cycling team during all of those years and races, then why:
a. Did Tyler Hamilton only get caught cheating after he went to another team?
b. Did Floyd Landis only get caught cheating after he went to another team?
c. Did George Hancapi not get caught after he went to other teams?

In seems Lance was able to beat some of the tests because of his bribes ooops ment donations to the cycling organizations that oversee the drug testing. This might account for Floyd Landis positive test after loosing "the protection" of team Armstrong, the best protection money can buy. Same for Hamilton. George Hancapi was probably still using the docs and/or techniques used to beat drug testing on team Armstrong.

Seems team Armstrong had excellent chemists, pharmacists and doctors specializing in PEDs & testing. This is one reason PEDs need to be banned because who has the best chemistry major shouldn't be a factor in competition.

pedsInLA wrote:

<quoted text>
In seems Lance was able to beat some of the tests because of his bribes ooops ment donations to the cycling organizations that oversee the drug testing. This might account for Floyd Landis positive test after loosing "the protection" of team Armstrong, the best protection money can buy. Same for Hamilton. George Hancapi was probably still using the docs and/or techniques used to beat drug testing on team Armstrong.
Seems team Armstrong had excellent chemists, pharmacists and doctors specializing in PEDs & testing. This is one reason PEDs need to be banned because who has the best chemistry major shouldn't be a factor in competition.

...show us your PROOF!

I'm the Emperor of Mongo, because I said so.

My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:

Interesting points, yet two themes havn't been answered.
1. How has Lance Armstrong been able to beat so many drugs tests during all of those races through all of those years?
2. Since it is believed that Lance Armstrong and all of the riders have taken illegal drugs on his cycling team during all of those years and races, then why:
a. Did Tyler Hamilton only get caught cheating after he went to another team?
b. Did Floyd Landis only get caught cheating after he went to another team?
c. Did George Hancapi not get caught after he went to other teams?

1. His doping Doctor, Michael Ferrari (sp?), had the philosophy that it is not cheating if it does not turn a dope test positive.
2a. & b. Both went to Phonak which apparantly did not have an effective doping program (they doped and turned dope tests positive)
2c. George may have chosen to go clean or joined a team that has an effective doping program. I hate that these two alternatives are both plausable.

Zeek wrote:

<quoted text>
1. His doping Doctor, Michael Ferrari (sp?), had the philosophy that it is not cheating if it does not turn a dope test positive.
2a. & b. Both went to Phonak which apparantly did not have an effective doping program (they doped and turned dope tests positive)
2c. George may have chosen to go clean or joined a team that has an effective doping program. I hate that these two alternatives are both plausable.

Thank you Zeek for providing a logical answer. I also share your feelings about the plausable!

Hi boys. Still cycling strong! Is'nt it all very sad!!

Anyway, I feel privaleged. Not only shall I be following the tour as usual, but yet again it passes my pile within 8Km. A couple of nights at home in prospect yet again.

Kind regards to all clean cyclists. All true sportsmen know it makes sense.

Take care. Raymond

Raymond wrote:

Hi boys. Still cycling strong! Is'nt it all very sad!!
Anyway, I feel privaleged. Not only shall I be following the tour as usual, but yet again it passes my pile within 8Km. A couple of nights at home in prospect yet again.
Kind regards to all clean cyclists. All true sportsmen know it makes sense.
Take care. Raymond

Aloha!

Raymond wrote:

Hi boys. Still cycling strong! Is'nt it all very sad!!
Anyway, I feel privaleged. Not only shall I be following the tour as usual, but yet again it passes my pile within 8Km. A couple of nights at home in prospect yet again.
Kind regards to all clean cyclists. All true sportsmen know it makes sense.
Take care. Raymond

Hello Raymond and glad to hear you're still riding strong.

I raced with Lance in 1989 at Aventura, FL where he won the U.S. Triathlon Short Course Championship. I placed in my age group. As his personal trainer once said of Lance, " He is a physiological freak ". In addition to being endowed with above average athletic potential, he's probably been the most disciplined and hardest training cyclist of all time. And, he's always struck me as being the kind of guy to whom looking in the mirror is as important to him, or more so, than just winning for winning's sake. I say he did not dope. Now, with further comment on the whole " doping " debacle in general in all of sports, should we ban B-12 shots,iron shots, training at high altitude or using hyperbaric chambers, eating inordinate quantities of brussel sprouts, or winning visualization meditating? Where does it end? I say allow anyone to ingest whatever they want, train however they want, but continue testing the winners so their chemical profile can be inscribed on their trophies. In other words let the " Shame " factor police behavior. Let the public decide whether the win was worth a hoot or not. Would this be a better dissuader than the constant back & forth games between the testers and the medical tricksters? Ya think???

Snowflake wrote:

Anybody who knows anything about cycling knows that Lance is a cheat. His best friends Floyd, Tyler and George all said he took it. His super human performances are very suspicious. Even the governing body has been on him for years.

The argument here is a bad one because its conclusion is not based on hard fact, the conclusion being that “Anybody who knows anything about cycling knows that Lance is a cheat.” While it is speculated that Lance Armstrong may have intentionally taken performance enhancing drugs, there is nothing in this is argument to support the above conclusion. The premise that his ‘best friends’ say that he did indeed knowingly ingest the PEDs is not strong because “Armstrong reps point to the more than 500 drug tests he passed throughout his epic career. The accusers are liars with their own agendas &#8213; jealousy, selling books, justifying their own doping excesses, etc.”(Lindsay). These facts hold much more truth because words can be manipulated or said under a false pretense. Not to directly say they were lying, but the science disproves the spoken word in this case. The remaining premise that his super human performances are suspicious provides no support of the conclusion. It’s simply a statement aimed at lowering the credibility of an athlete whom has proven his innocence by random testing time and time again. My final word on this is that the scientific evidence thoroughly disproves the assumption that Lance Armstrong has taken performance enhancing drugs and that it speaks louder than the people without evidence to support their claim that he has.

There have been both good and bad points made throughout this Floyd Landis forum since after the 2006 TDF in defence of Floyd Landis, doping in cycling, and questionable issues about the LAND. And let's not forget about the behavior of the UCI, WADA, and the various national cycling federations as well.

Tyler Hamilton screamed up and down that he had never doped, yet at the end he had admitted to doping and cheating.

Floyd Landis was an reenactment of Tyler Hamilton and the end result came out the same.

And so many other professional cyclists played the same harp, only to end up playing the same sadly ending tune as the above two idividuals.

But, lets really look at the greatest cyclists in the history of cycling!

There has never been any cyclists who have won the TDF and or the Giro more then "5" times and there have been very few who have won all of the Grand Tours together.

Considering that professional cycling has gotten tougher every advancing year, the odds and the statistics will not support the possability of anyone winning any tour "7" times in a row, much less of "7" times period.

We have also seen that EPO has been found in the B Samples of Lance Armstrong, even if that event had been both an ethical and legal questionable situation.

But, then again I was one of the very few posters here who back in 2006 kept pointing out about how the sponsors were demanding bigger and better results from their cycling teams in the first place. Which naturally would have put severe pressure on the team managers towards aquiring drug supplies and juicing up their team cyclists.

But, too many posters kept ingoring that little aspect of cycling all along.

Everyone quickly and conviently disregarded on just how fast the sponsors of the Phonic cycling team had tucked tail and ran away, while allowing this team to take all the blame for everything that they got nailed with.

Just some food for thought!!!