Smoke-free ordinance talk heats up along Grand Strand

Jun 8, 2011 Full story: WBTW 34

Murrells Inlet in Georgetown County does not have a smoking ban for bars and restaurants.

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Dr Palmer

Myrtle Beach, SC

#1 Jun 10, 2011
Helmet Laws, Gambling, Spring Break and now smoking. Welcome to Myrtle Beach? Twenty percent of the population is out of work and the gas prices are restrictive. What does the Strand have to offer? Is this really the correct time to address this situation?
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#2 Jun 10, 2011
It is encouraging that a state with a huge economic dependence on tobacco resisted industry efforts to forbid cities and counties from enacting smoking regulation in excess of what the state has in place.

As to the economy as a timing factor, why support the use of a product that sucks so much money out of pockets of consumers? Why NOT enact measures that lead to a reduction of use?
RealityCheck

Loris, SC

#3 Jun 23, 2011
Cut the crap. All this is about is placing another yoke on business owners and individuals. In my opinion, it is NOT the governments place to tell anyone what they can or cannot do on private property with a legal substance. By all means, inform the public of the dangers, do not patronize establishments that allow smoking, if you own a business, take a stand and ban smoking at your establishment- but do not presume to tell me that I have to ban smoking at mine. Lets not forget, cigars and cigarettes are a legal substance for adults over the age of 18. If you are so concerned about their negative health effects, lobby to make them illegal. But as long as they are legal, they will be allowed at my establishment- END OF STORY. If anyone doesnt like it, the have every right not to come here, including my employees. And coming at this from a "workers rights" stand is also foolishness. Many occupations have inherent risks associated. Electricians can be electricuted, steel workers can fall, factory workers can be burned, cut, mangled by machinery- the list goes on and on. Second hand smoke is an inherent danger of working in bars and restaurants. If the risk is too great for you, dont take the job. If this were to pass, whats next? Im not allowed to run my grill anymore because someone may be burned? Cant sell alchohol because someone may drive drunk? No salt on my fries, no sugar in my tea, no red meat on my burgers? I say stop giving away my freedoms, and let people be responsible for themselves.(And in case you were wondering, I do not smoke, but many of my customers do, and as far as Im concerned it is their right to do so.)
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#4 Jun 24, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
Cut the crap. All this is about is placing another yoke on business owners and individuals. In my opinion, it is NOT the governments place to tell anyone what they can or cannot do on private property with a legal substance.
Sure, sure. Everybody knows how strong a vested interest the community has in preventing businesses from making it.(not, by the way, in case you are really so inane as to believe that).

Arsenic is a legal substance. Do you think there should be no restrictions on what is done with THAT in an establishment serving food and drink to the public?

In my opinion, you are wrong.

“POOR BRAINWASHED ANTISMOKER”

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#5 Jun 24, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
Cut the crap. All this is about is placing another yoke on business owners and individuals. In my opinion, it is NOT the governments place to tell anyone what they can or cannot do on private property with a legal substance. By all means, inform the public of the dangers, do not patronize establishments that allow smoking, if you own a business, take a stand and ban smoking at your establishment- but do not presume to tell me that I have to ban smoking at mine. Lets not forget, cigars and cigarettes are a legal substance for adults over the age of 18. If you are so concerned about their negative health effects, lobby to make them illegal. But as long as they are legal, they will be allowed at my establishment- END OF STORY. If anyone doesnt like it, the have every right not to come here, including my employees. And coming at this from a "workers rights" stand is also foolishness. Many occupations have inherent risks associated. Electricians can be electricuted, steel workers can fall, factory workers can be burned, cut, mangled by machinery- the list goes on and on. Second hand smoke is an inherent danger of working in bars and restaurants. If the risk is too great for you, dont take the job. If this were to pass, whats next? Im not allowed to run my grill anymore because someone may be burned? Cant sell alchohol because someone may drive drunk? No salt on my fries, no sugar in my tea, no red meat on my burgers? I say stop giving away my freedoms, and let people be responsible for themselves.(And in case you were wondering, I do not smoke, but many of my customers do, and as far as Im concerned it is their right to do so.)
Just follow the money trail from the Robert Wood Johnson foundation/J&J who funds the anti smoking and bans while J&J's companies profit from their own nicotine patches and nicotine gum. Pfizer also funds anti smoking, they market the killer Chantix.

“POOR BRAINWASHED ANTISMOKER”

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#6 Jun 24, 2011
the only health smoking bans are about is the financial gains of the anti smoking cartel who work as lobbyist for RWJF whoseparent company J&J profits from nicotine and stocks
RealityCheck

Loris, SC

#7 Jun 25, 2011
Really Hugh? Did I say I thought the community wanted my business, or any business, to fail? No, I did not. It is my opinion that the majority of people who talk about what businesses need have never owned one and have no idea.

Secondly, arsenic is a CONTROLLED legal substance. Unlike second hand smoke, their is no need for skewed statistics nor sensational claims to convince people it is deadly. If you ingest enough arsenic, you will die. Not from some loosely related disease in twenty years, but from arsenic poisoning- right now.

Now, if you want to debate with me on this issue, I ask that you stick to the facts of the issue or at least argue against what I say, not what you want to imply that I said. I will not try to debate with sensational statements out of left field (such as your arsenic comment) nor will I try to defend myself from accusations you make about things I never said. I realize these are the tools of folks of your ilk, but I refuse to play your game.

Once again, for those who have trouble with reading comprehension, my points are that cigarettes are a legal substance for people over the age of 18, my business is on private property, and neither the government nor the lifestyle nazis has any right to tell me I cannot allow smoking here.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#8 Jun 25, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
Really Hugh? Did I say I thought the community wanted my business, or any business, to fail? No, I did not.
Gee, I thought that:
RealityCheck wrote:
All this is about is placing another yoke on business owners and individuals.
If the entire purpose of the regulation is to put another yoke on business owners, then the community must want to make it hard for businesses to make it. QED.
RealityCheck wrote:
Secondly, arsenic is a CONTROLLED legal substance.
So is tobacco.

Whatever you may find it necessary to believe or disbelieve regarding the effects of SHS--and there is no way I am going to waste time and bandwidth debating THAT with the likes of you--this fundamental fact remains. Get over it.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#9 Jun 25, 2011
If you don't want to accept arsenic as a plank of the discussion, then how about drain cleaner? Should bar owners be permitted to do whatever they choose with drain cleaner?
RealityCheck

Loris, SC

#11 Jun 26, 2011
Placing another yoke on business owners is not the same as wanting them to fail. It is another step towards big brother running the private sector.

Do some research. Bar owners are not allowed to do whatever they want with drain cleaner. They are also not allowed to do whatever they want with cigarettes. DHEC has regs in place for both. That is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing a government sanctioned ban of a legal subtance on private property, plain and simple.

You seem to take offense to smokers, and Im ok with that. You may even find smoking so offensive that you refuse to patronize any establishment that allows smiking on premesis. Im ok with that too. In our country, you have the right to be offended and to be as vocal as you like about it. However you DO NOT have the right to NOT be offended. Im sorry if that fact bothers you. Im sorry you feel such outrage that some people may take part in a lifestyle you disagree with, but thats the America we live in, and I for one would rather keep it that way.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#12 Jun 26, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
Placing another yoke on business owners is not the same as wanting them to fail. It is another step towards big brother running the private sector.
Well, I guess the yokes on you. A yoke--as opposed to a chain or shackle--implies added weight to carry, not more control. A policy aimed solely at making it harder for businesses to prosper IS indicative of a desire to see more of them fail. Perhaps you should choose your metaphors more appropriately.
RealityCheck wrote:
We are discussing a government sanctioned ban of a legal subtance on private property, plain and simple.
You seem to take offense to smokers, and Im ok with that.
I am quite literally sickened by SHS, which is a significantly different thing.

At the level of simply "taking offense", I would have to say that I take offense at the utter stupidity of people who argue as if it only made sense to apply regulations to substances and activities that are already inherently illegal. THAT is offensive. SMOKING is a health hazard for everyone around it.
RealityCheck wrote:
However you DO NOT have the right to NOT be offended.
Jeez, you are being absolutely ridiculous. Do you not realize that?

You obviously checked reality at the door.

Look, if you truly ARE a business owner, does your business plan really rely on the ability of your customers to conveniently get a fix for their nicotine addiction?

You and yours keep spouting about how tobacco is a legal product, with serene disregard for the unarguable fact that it would NOT meet--nor would it have MET in the last several decades--the requirements for legalization if it were a new product instead of something that a large minority of the population had become addicted to.

Most of the companies producing the product in this country have been convicted of massive fraud aimed at producing exactly that situation. If not for their overwhelming success in grabbing tens of millions of Americans by the short hairs and shaking sheckels from their pockets, those companies would almost certainly have been shut down long ago.

So, you are arguing against regulation of a product that clearly should NOT be legal, and which is clearly known to cause a huge amount of sickness and death when used PRECISELY as intended.

That, I guess, is another on the list of things that offend me.
RealityCheck

Loris, SC

#13 Jun 26, 2011
Wow, nothing else to argue but syntax? Im impressed.

If smoking is a health hazard for everyone around it, DONT GO WHERE PEOPLE ARE SMOKING. Is that not much easier than crying about it? Your right to live smoke free does not trump the right of others to smoke if they so desire.

My business plan focuses on creating an envirinment where people can relax and enjoy themselves. Most of them smoke. Im not their father to guide them on whats right or wrong, they are grown ups. Im sure they know the risks but they want to smoke anyway. Who am I to tell them they are wrong? For that matter, who are you to tell them?

And as far as the legality of tobacco, if you feel it should not be legal then man up and lobby to get the law changed. If tobacco was illegal, Id be the first to ban it from my place. But until then, it is my right to allow it and I will, cry about it all you want.

So, the choice is yours. Keep calling me "stupid" and "ridiculous" on the internet to make yourself feel powerful, or be man enough to stand up for your convictions and get the law changed.
RealityCheck

Loris, SC

#14 Jun 26, 2011
As a matter of fact, I dont care what you do, and Im tired of hearing you cry about it. I do enjoy a good debate, but you are just a grown man throwing a temper tantrum. Its kind of sad, and I dont care to hear anymore. So, just to let you hold on to whatever shred of dignity you have, Im gonna bow out and let you have the last word- or tears, whichever you decide- so you can feel like you won something here. Good day to you, sir.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#15 Jun 26, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
Wow, nothing else to argue but syntax? Im impressed.
Syntax? Pointing out that your "legal product" is only legal because too many people are addicted to it and too many people have gained too much money from it for it to be outlawed is arguing "syntax"?

Or do you somehow expect people to buy that the difference between having my health harmed and simply being offended is nothing but syntax?

Either way, if your mind is no better than that I should impress you.
RealityCheck wrote:
If smoking is a health hazard for everyone around it, DONT GO WHERE PEOPLE ARE SMOKING.
If the prospect of being punished for breaking a law bothers you, then COMPLY with the law. Is that not much easier than crying about it?
RealityCheck wrote:
Your right to live smoke free does not trump the right of others to smoke if they so desire.
Not smoking around others does not any loss of the right of others to smoke, and the desire to smoke does not trump the responsibility to refrain from behaving in a manner that endangers others.
RealityCheck wrote:
My business plan focuses on creating an envirinment where people can relax and enjoy themselves. Most of them smoke. Im not their father to guide them on whats right or wrong, they are grown ups.
And I'm not your father to be telling you whether obeying the law is right or wrong.
RealityCheck wrote:
Who am I to tell them they are wrong? For that matter, who are you to tell them?
I don't see that anyone--in this context--is telling them they are wrong or expecting you to tell them they are wrong. On the other hand, if your community passes a law that says they may not smoke in the type of establishment you run and that owners may not permit smoking in such places, and you claim you don't have to comply, someone will probably be telling YOU that you are wrong. If you can't find some way of providing a service that brings in customers without violating the law, then perhaps you should look for another way to make a living. That's the reality. Check it out.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#16 Jun 26, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
As a matter of fact, I dont care what you do, and Im tired of hearing you cry about it. I do enjoy a good debate, but you are just a grown man throwing a temper tantrum. Its kind of sad, and I dont care to hear anymore. So, just to let you hold on to whatever shred of dignity you have, Im gonna bow out and let you have the last word- or tears, whichever you decide- so you can feel like you won something here. Good day to you, sir.
Listen to you! It sure sounds like the temper tantrum is coming from the guy whose community is looking to enact a law that he doesn't like. It sure seems like THAT is the person who is crying about it.

As I said, you clearly checked reality at the door.
Smoke Free State

Atlanta, GA

#17 Jun 27, 2011
RealityCheck wrote:
My business plan focuses on creating an envirinment where people can relax and enjoy themselves. Most of them smoke. Im not their father to guide them on whats right or wrong, they are grown ups. Im sure they know the risks but they want to smoke anyway. Who am I to tell them they are wrong? For that matter, who are you to tell them?
And as far as the legality of tobacco, if you feel it should not be legal then man up and lobby to get the law changed. If tobacco was illegal, Id be the first to ban it from my place. But until then, it is my right to allow it and I will, cry about it all you want.
So, the choice is yours. Keep calling me "stupid" and "ridiculous" on the internet to make yourself feel powerful, or be man enough to stand up for your convictions and get the law changed.
Your "business plans" fail to change with the times. You are doomed, Pal. Don't you realize that 75-80% of the population DOESN'T smoke? Wouldn't that fact play into your "business plans". Have you ever visited a state that has strict smoking restrictions in all bars, both public, private, vet clubs and casinos? Take a trip to Maryland and see for yourself, I know you won't take my word for it but the smoking restrictions really do work and business is better and bigger than ever despite the poor economy.
Employees love it, Patrons love it, and owners love it. They have a whole new clientele along with the old die hard smokers. The few smokers understand and accepted that it's their harmful habit and politely step outside smoke and step back in not missing a beat. Even in the winter or the summer heat.

Please take a trip and see for yourself, you'll quickly change your tune. Nice bars, Mom&Pop bars, sports bars, biker bars, casinos they are all packed and people are having fun again, even after 3 or 4 years of this strict smoking ban.

We love it in Maryland and would NEVER go back to allowing smoking in any business. I suggest you change your attitude about allowing smoking in your business or may I suggest you find another line of work!!!
Love It

Atlanta, GA

#18 Jun 28, 2011
Smoke Free State wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "business plans" fail to change with the times. You are doomed, Pal. Don't you realize that 75-80% of the population DOESN'T smoke? Wouldn't that fact play into your "business plans". Have you ever visited a state that has strict smoking restrictions in all bars, both public, private, vet clubs and casinos? Take a trip to Maryland and see for yourself, I know you won't take my word for it but the smoking restrictions really do work and business is better and bigger than ever despite the poor economy.
Employees love it, Patrons love it, and owners love it. They have a whole new clientele along with the old die hard smokers. The few smokers understand and accepted that it's their harmful habit and politely step outside smoke and step back in not missing a beat. Even in the winter or the summer heat.
Please take a trip and see for yourself, you'll quickly change your tune. Nice bars, Mom&Pop bars, sports bars, biker bars, casinos they are all packed and people are having fun again, even after 3 or 4 years of this strict smoking ban.
We love it in Maryland and would NEVER go back to allowing smoking in any business. I suggest you change your attitude about allowing smoking in your business or may I suggest you find another line of work!!!
Seems Mr. "RealityCheck" got a dose of reality. Damn! That shut him up real quick.
Judo Chop

Loris, SC

#19 Jun 28, 2011
There is no doubt in my mind that smoking and shs are health hazards, but why go at it half cocked? Make cigarettes illegal and be done with it. Maikng them basically illegal on private property is imo a step in a dangerous direction, becuase once that ball starts rolling, where does it stop? Plus I hate that as a country we have become so afraid of conflict or offending this group or that group that we dont have the stones anymore to come right out in the open and say what we mean. Either ban them altogether or leave it alone. No more half-stepping!
Judo Chop

Loris, SC

#20 Jun 28, 2011
And as for the stop smoking companies funding these movements, Im betting they do contribute money to them, but I doubt they have a conspiracy to start these groups. People now just know more about the dangers than we did 50 or 100 years ago. If a group does start, why wouldnt drug companies contribute to them? Thats just good advertising imo. By the way, I was a 2 pack a days smoker for almost 10 years, and with chantrix I quit in 3 months, and I can tell you I damn sure feel better. I still feel the urge when Im around someone else smoking though, so I dont go to restuarants that allow smoking (about 90% of them in Conway and MB already dont allow it), and Ive never been big on bars anyway. I think that given the facts, local government has a lot bigger fish to fry than bogging down on an issue that has pretty near resolved itself.
Freedom

Orangeburg, SC

#21 Jul 13, 2011
All you idiots that do not like to go to a restaurant that has a smoking section listen up. You have the right not to go!!!! Nobody makes you! It is and always should be the right of the business not the government to allow or disallow it There are smoke free places popping up all the time and there are also places that allow you to smoke. Why do we as Americans all of a sudden want the government to regulate us? Our forefathers would turn over in our graves if they new the extent of the freedoms we feel obligated to give control back to the government. Come on people use your common sense. Don't like smoking in an establishment such as a restaurant then tell the manager you will not be dinning there until it's smoke free. The point is it's your choice!!!! "Hugh" and especially "love it" you need to go back to the places in the US that have already conformed to big government and need people who cannot make choices for themselves. By e way I don't smoke!!!!!!

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