Plastic bags could be history in Hawaii

s usual, the state legislature can't get the job done, so the counties have to take the lead.

And, as for Mr. Botti's "education" approach, he said the same thing about the drinking age and innumerable other changes that no one person was willing to take on so we had to meake eveyone take it on. It's always, "no, no, and no" with him.

On to a sturofoam ban.

Ken Holmes wrote:

Hybrid Driver - first you should do a little research about hybrid cars. When looking at a "dust to dust" analysis, they cost more per mile than a Hummer. Look it up.

Who would come up with such wildly inaccurate information? Do the math.

I did. That's why I made the switch.

Cost of a Honda or Toytoa hybrid:$25,000.

Cost of a Hummer:$59,000+

The hybrid starts off $34,000 cheaper. Insurance costs are less than a Hummer. Interest paid on a loan for a hybrid is less. Tires, oil changes and parts are less. Wear and tear on roads are less.

A 4-cylinder 1.3 liter engine burns less fuel at 110 HP than a 6 liter V8 at 390 HP.

The Hummer gets about 10 MPG. A hybrid gets about 45 MPG. More than 4 times more fuel efficient.

Look up the math regarding how much energy it takes to move 2,800 pounds of aerodynamic Honda compared to a 6,500-pound box-like Hummer. Look up the resources required to produce a 15-inch sedan tire compared to a 17-inch light truck tire.

The only part that is different in a hybrid from non-hybrids is the battery pack, and that's about the size of the average sofa cushion. If the batteries go out, the failing module is easily replaced, and sometimes at no cost to the consumer.

CNW Research came up with the questionable material about the hybrids being more expensive than a Hummer.

Well, CNW Research is an automotive marketing company. The publisher of that publication was the editor of an auto leasing newsletter.

Hardly a good source of info.

Saying a Hummer uses fewer resources and is cheaper per mile than any hybrid is an absurd claim by people who are interested in promoting gas guzzlers.

Environmental Impact wrote:

Ever wonder why the Executive Branch agencies have to do an extensive Environmental Impact Study (EIS), and the legislative branch (city councils and legislature) don't, when passing laws that impact everyone and the environment? I know the mayors and Gov have to sign off on them, but an EIS is never done.
When plastic bags are banned at stores, how much plastic is saved? I know that I myself re-use those bags as wastebasket liners, to pick up dog poo, and to temporarily store stuff. I now will have to purchase small plastic Hefty bags to use for the same purpose. No plastic savings there. And how many more trees have to be cut down to make paper bags to replace the plastic bags, to package your groceries, to bag your clothing purchases, or your plate lunches? Replacing one environmental impact with another.
I think this was impulsive, knee-jerk environmentalism which substitutes one environmental problem with another. Do an EIS.

It just reminded me of the ethanol law in Hawaii. the environmentalist thought it would save oil but forgot to check how much energy it cost to refine and transport it ... now we learn that it didn't save any energy but it did cause food prices to increase since most ethanol refined in America is made from corn and corn is used for both food and feed for animals and chickens.

When environmentalists think, they only think up to a point and don't think things all the way through and make stupid decisions.

Richard Richardson wrote:

The notion that plastic bags stay in the environment for incredible lengths of time is wrong. I just took some remains of plastic bags out of a car that hasn't been in use for about six months. The bags were exposed to sunlight but were not able to blow away. They had broken up into hundreds of little pieces. After another equal period they would have become many more much smaller pieces. They are sensitive to sunlight and appear to be composed of unstable molecular chains. Those molecular chains break down into something analogous to dust or grains of sand.

I've had that same experience with plastic bags deteriorating in sunlight. These people who are against plastic bags saying that they'll last a long time don't know what they are talking about.

If the plastic bags are constantly wet, I can see that it won't deteriorate but most bags are exposed to the sun unless they are buried or in water.

Everyone should know that plastic becomes brittle over time and deteriorates in sunlight.

Hybrid Driver wrote:

<quoted text>
Who would come up with such wildly inaccurate information? Do the math.
I did. That's why I made the switch.
Cost of a Honda or Toytoa hybrid:$25,000.
Cost of a Hummer:$59,000+
The hybrid starts off $34,000 cheaper. Insurance costs are less than a Hummer. Interest paid on a loan for a hybrid is less. Tires, oil changes and parts are less. Wear and tear on roads are less.
A 4-cylinder 1.3 liter engine burns less fuel at 110 HP than a 6 liter V8 at 390 HP.
The Hummer gets about 10 MPG. A hybrid gets about 45 MPG. More than 4 times more fuel efficient.
Look up the math regarding how much energy it takes to move 2,800 pounds of aerodynamic Honda compared to a 6,500-pound box-like Hummer. Look up the resources required to produce a 15-inch sedan tire compared to a 17-inch light truck tire.
The only part that is different in a hybrid from non-hybrids is the battery pack, and that's about the size of the average sofa cushion. If the batteries go out, the failing module is easily replaced, and sometimes at no cost to the consumer.
CNW Research came up with the questionable material about the hybrids being more expensive than a Hummer.
Well, CNW Research is an automotive marketing company. The publisher of that publication was the editor of an auto leasing newsletter.
Hardly a good source of info.
Saying a Hummer uses fewer resources and is cheaper per mile than any hybrid is an absurd claim by people who are interested in promoting gas guzzlers.

You forgot to add the cost of a new battery set up for the hybrid. Also the cost of disposal. And the cost to the enviroment by all these spent batteries.

true

Will your new no plastic bag rule also include department store bags. After all they are usualy larger bigger, thicker. Will it include the plastic bags the news paper comes in when it`s rainnig? Will it include the bags the new phone books come in? Will it include plastic sandwich bags? Will it include plastic forks and knifes? Will it include plastic sampoo bottles? See where I`m going with this. When does the madness stop?

Ban Botti!!!!!!!!!

It's like, what did we do before cars? Wake up!!!!!!!!!

Ban all those in favor of bans!!!!!

Eric Seabury wrote:

Actually, the topic of debate whether paper, plastic or cloth being the best choice to carry your food items, is not the issue. The issue is that, once again, government wants to dictate what THEY think you should do instead of allowing the stores and us, to think for ourselves.
For all of you, who are environmentally conscious, you can take your own bag or request paper bags, if you want. Many businesses today are also becoming environmentally conscious and are, without government intrusion, making their own choices to use paper and getting rid of plastic bags.
If government wants to make themselves more useful, they should confront the real problems we're facing today, like our high cost of living, excessive taxes, and high gasoline prices.

Actually, the root of the problem lies in the fact that when we are given unrestricted freedom to "think for ourselves"... many of us think ONLY of ourselves! The sad fact of the matter is that government is often forced to dictate to the people because individuals will not always act in the best interests of society as a whole -- or for that matter, the environment.

Enough people have already demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with the responsibility of properly disposing of their plastic bags, such that the government is needed to step in. If we as a society had acted responsibly in the first place, then there would be no need for a ban of plastic bags.

realmerv wrote:

<quoted text>
I've had that same experience with plastic bags deteriorating in sunlight. These people who are against plastic bags saying that they'll last a long time don't know what they are talking about.
If the plastic bags are constantly wet, I can see that it won't deteriorate but most bags are exposed to the sun unless they are buried or in water.
Everyone should know that plastic becomes brittle over time and deteriorates in sunlight.

Just because plastic bags deteriorate into fine particles, that doesn't mean they become inert, and harmless to the environment. Disintegrated bags may no longer pose problems with respect to visual pollution, choking or suffocation by wildlife, etc., but they still represent a potential source of toxic contaminants. In particulate form, it may be easier for plastic compounds to enter the food chain, and they may pose a greater danger with respect to inhalation and ingestion.

Just because you can't see something as easily, that doesn't mean the problem goes away.

In seattle we have out of control gang problems. Our streets are a mess. Our schools are as bad as anywhere else. Are crime is just as bad. But our mayor and city concial in thier infanite wisdom were only able to pass a 20 cent per super market plastic bag fee. The city would get 15 cents and the store would get 5 cents per bag. The city expects to collect almost 2 million per year. It`s time to start the revolt. I plan on the day the law goes into efect to go into the safeway fill my basket with frozen foods, icecream, milk,fresh meats, 50 pound bags of dog food, and when the cashier ask for my cloth bags I`ll say I left them at home. Then the cashier will want to charge me 20 cents for plastic bags. At that point I`ll say I can`t afford the bags and walk away. The only problem with that is the store will start putting a cloth bag bouncer at the door. No cloth bag you can`t come in.Or they`ll want to check your credit ratting to make sure you can afford plastic bags. Or some stores may start to offer free plastic bags if you shop at thier store. If you think plastic bags are that evil then ban them all, no if ands or buts. But our city sees a posible money grab

Whatever kind of bag you use, reuse it.

(Or as an alternative, just imagine the island of O'ahu covered with plastic bags.)

rob wrote:

<quoted text> You forgot to add the cost of a new battery set up for the hybrid. Also the cost of disposal. And the cost to the enviroment by all these spent batteries.

The entire battery pack isn't always replaced. At times its just one of the modules where a cell has gone bad. And my own Honda had the pack replaced at no cost, after five years of use.

The batteries are then recycled. Toyota claims that since their hybrid hit the market in 2000, not a single battery has been replaced. And both Honda and Toyota puts a $200 bounty on battery packs to help ensure they're recycled.

With the introduction of A123 Systems nanophosphate batteries, there will be much more lifespan and more energy density. With the system that is about to be offered for the Prius, a typical Hawaii driver could commute to and from work for the price of a couple hours of electricity. About $5 worth of electricity per week, compared to what it would cost in gas.

Compare the "footprint" of a hybrid's car battery pack to the "footprint" of a Hummer as someone else tried to do here. It's not even close.

I also drive an SUV to tow a boat for my job, and we use the hybrid as much as possible to cut fuel costs. I also switched to a 4-stroke outboard to cut fuel consumption by 75% and eliminate spewing 2-stroke oil into the ocean. These are not going to change the world all by themselves, but with enough people doing what they can, it really makes a difference in the long run.

No one is asking everyone to change religions or genders. Just make a few modifications in what they do on a daily basis to help make a difference in the long run.

I'm not advocating these concepts because I've read a bunch of enviro-greenie magazines. It's what I've seen with my own eyes over the years.

The ocean is at risk from tons of plastic -- go to some of the windward beaches where people aren't hauling trash out constantly. Places like the north coast of Lanai or windward, remote beaches of Kauai. Along with the driftwood are piles of trash from everywhere. It's not breaking down very quickly. And while many plastics are biodegradable, it doesn't degrade that fast, and the creatures we're fishing for to feed our families are ingesting this stuff.

Fish and turtles are pretty dumb and will eat anything that vaguely resembles food. If it weren't for that, lures wouldn't work.

For those who don't believe how a little can add up to a lot, please send me a nickle a day. If enough of you do that, I'd be rich in no time!

Hybrid Driver wrote:

<quoted text>
Who would come up with such wildly inaccurate information? Do the math.
I did. That's why I made the switch.
Cost of a Honda or Toytoa hybrid:$25,000.
Cost of a Hummer:$59,000+
The hybrid starts off $34,000 cheaper. Insurance costs are less than a Hummer. Interest paid on a loan for a hybrid is less. Tires, oil changes and parts are less. Wear and tear on roads are less.
A 4-cylinder 1.3 liter engine burns less fuel at 110 HP than a 6 liter V8 at 390 HP.
The Hummer gets about 10 MPG. A hybrid gets about 45 MPG. More than 4 times more fuel efficient.
Look up the math regarding how much energy it takes to move 2,800 pounds of aerodynamic Honda compared to a 6,500-pound box-like Hummer. Look up the resources required to produce a 15-inch sedan tire compared to a 17-inch light truck tire.
The only part that is different in a hybrid from non-hybrids is the battery pack, and that's about the size of the average sofa cushion. If the batteries go out, the failing module is easily replaced, and sometimes at no cost to the consumer.
CNW Research came up with the questionable material about the hybrids being more expensive than a Hummer.
Well, CNW Research is an automotive marketing company. The publisher of that publication was the editor of an auto leasing newsletter.
Hardly a good source of info.
Saying a Hummer uses fewer resources and is cheaper per mile than any hybrid is an absurd claim by people who are interested in promoting gas guzzlers.

So I was smart to get an Escalade Ext instead of a Hummer? Lucky they were out of hummers the day I was shopping.

I definitely think plastic bags should be banned. Here's more of what i think:

http://www.cotygonzales.com/2008/08/28/plasti...

As I recall, way back when, plastic bags came into use to save the trees. Now, plastic bags are out in favor of paper bags again (or reuseable totes). I take it we now have an over abundance of trees that makes paper bags once again acceptable?

Please, how about addressing the high cost of gas, the high cost of living and all of the other problems we have. I can't believe the government can fast track a ban on plastic bags and yet can't get a bypass road even started that has been kicked around for years.