Many teachers unions completely voluntary

Umm...try getting a teaching job in a public school without being a Union member in good standing. Teacher Unions typically use strong arm tactics to prevent non union members from working. Because of teacher unions, we get stuck with some horrible educators who cannot be fired or let go, they have tenure.

Man, don't let these secrets out about Frederick County. Imagine being able to choose to join a union or not. Imagine a county actually enforcing immigration laws. Please do not let the rest of the world know about this . Someone may attempt to shut this horrible practice down. uh oh, I hear the ac..l..............

What shallow and ignorant voices we have speaking in this country. You really think you, Joe Six Pack, part of the shrinking middle class (more on that in a minute) would be where you are today without unions? Let's roll back the clock to 1890. What were the working conditions like? What was job security like? Health care? We formed the wealthiest country in the world in the post WW2 era and unions were a big part of spreading the success. People could actually raise families with only Dad working, imagine! I see huge correlations with the shrinking middle class and the destruction of the unions. No one to protect your jobs, the jobs are outsourced. No one to protect you, the legislators encourage with tax incentives foreign car companies to build plants in this country and totally instabilize our auto economy. No one to protect you, health care is destroyed. No one to protect you, Wallyworld hires people at 17000 a year for a full time cashiers job and charges them 25% of their pay if they want health care. No one to protect you, Wallyworld imports 70% of their goods from China.

My wife is a teacher, she does not like the union, but we (our family) certainly benefits from it. I'm delighted to pay their dues.

My father was a plant manager of a large unionized factory (big one here in Balto). He was not part of the union, and he hated dealing with the union, but he always said one thing. Every time "they", the union, get something, so did he. And he knew the Republicans that control industry would never give anybody anything unless they had to.

So, Republicans, go ahead with your ever ending campaign to kill unions. I hope you are of rich and powerful elite, because if you are Joe Six Pack you are doing nothing less than suicide.

You neanderthal R's out there should ask yourself a bonus question sometime. How is it that AIG, a company that is barely on the consciousness of normal Americans, gets 172 billion in bailouts, no strings attached, gets to keep going to resorts and paying "retention" fees that appear to be year end bonuses, while Big 3 can't get $20 billion? It is because the southern Senators, the "firewall" gang, are protecting the foreign motor companies that have built plants there, but moreover the forever agenda item of Republicans to kill unions.

PostMortem wrote:

Umm...try getting a teaching job in a public school without being a Union member in good standing. Teacher Unions typically use strong arm tactics to prevent non union members from working. Because of teacher unions, we get stuck with some horrible educators who cannot be fired or let go, they have tenure.

Sorry, this just isn't true. As a former teacher who has worked in two MD school systems, I was never pressured to join the teachers union. It is voluntary in most of MD.

name not important wrote:

What shallow and ignorant voices we have speaking in this country. You really think you, Joe Six Pack, part of the shrinking middle class (more on that in a minute) would be where you are today without unions? Let's roll back the clock to 1890. What were the working conditions like? What was job security like? Health care? We formed the wealthiest country in the world in the post WW2 era and unions were a big part of spreading the success. People could actually raise families with only Dad working, imagine! I see huge correlations with the shrinking middle class and the destruction of the unions. No one to protect your jobs, the jobs are outsourced. No one to protect you, the legislators encourage with tax incentives foreign car companies to build plants in this country and totally instabilize our auto economy. No one to protect you, health care is destroyed. No one to protect you, Wallyworld hires people at 17000 a year for a full time cashiers job and charges them 25% of their pay if they want health care. No one to protect you, Wallyworld imports 70% of their goods from China.
My wife is a teacher, she does not like the union, but we (our family) certainly benefits from it. I'm delighted to pay their dues.
My father was a plant manager of a large unionized factory (big one here in Balto). He was not part of the union, and he hated dealing with the union, but he always said one thing. Every time "they", the union, get something, so did he. And he knew the Republicans that control industry would never give anybody anything unless they had to.
So, Republicans, go ahead with your ever ending campaign to kill unions. I hope you are of rich and powerful elite, because if you are Joe Six Pack you are doing nothing less than suicide.
You neanderthal R's out there should ask yourself a bonus question sometime. How is it that AIG, a company that is barely on the consciousness of normal Americans, gets 172 billion in bailouts, no strings attached, gets to keep going to resorts and paying "retention" fees that appear to be year end bonuses, while Big 3 can't get $20 billion? It is because the southern Senators, the "firewall" gang, are protecting the foreign motor companies that have built plants there, but moreover the forever agenda item of Republicans to kill unions.

Want to get paid for not working, join a union. Want to have absolute job protection, no matter how bad an employee you are, join a union. Don't want to risk any of you own money, efforts,or talent, join a union.

Know why the American auto industry has a failed business plan?? You got it!!! The unions.

You must be a government employee " no name". I guess I'm paying you to rent while on the job?

PostMortem wrote:

Umm...try getting a teaching job in a public school without being a Union member in good standing. Teacher Unions typically use strong arm tactics to prevent non union members from working. Because of teacher unions, we get stuck with some horrible educators who cannot be fired or let go, they have tenure.

Wow you couldn't be anymore wrong about how teachers unions work in Maryland. I don't know a single district that requires employees to become a member of the "Union". First of all you have an issue with the tenure system that makes it more difficult to remove a teacher from their teaching position. A non-union teacher can receive the same benefit of tenure even if they never join the union. Never once in my three years did we use "strong arm" tactics to make somebody join. Actually unions in most states (even Ohio which is one of the last major union states) are joined by choice.

So, the millions of dollars being paid to the auto execs and the supression of fuel efficient vehicles had nothing to do with the auto industry collapsing? Lets get real. You cannot blame one side, it is a joint responsibility. We need unions to protect employees and watch employers and we need watch dogs on unions too because they have the same corruptions. Power corrupts no matter who has it and thats why checks and balances are so important. Being defensive and blaming one side will never solve any problems. As a teacher I joined the union for legal protection in my first year teaching. But I did not receive job security until I was tenured. I agree there are a lot of bad teachers in Maryland who should not be allowed to teach, but they are not prtected by the union. They are protected by their tenure and the absence of good administators, who are not doing their job in making sure teachers are really teaching. And the absence of good parents who need to make sure their child is receiving everything they deserve in their education. Getting rid of unions is not going to solve education problems. We need to examine the real problems, such as poverty, safety, nutrician, and broken families, because these things really do impact a child's ability to learn and succeed.

I am so tired of the meme that teachers' unions prevent administrators from getting rid of bad teachers. This is a myth. Unions provide steps that administrators must follow to, first, try to rehabilitate the teacher, and then, if necessary, fire them. They protect teachers from being fired by administrators who may want to get rid of them for reasons other than being poor teachers. That being said, there are extreme situations where teachers can be fired without these steps.

I can only speak for the Baltimore Teachers Union, of which I am a member. Teachers are not required to join, nor are they strong-armed. If they do not join, they still must pay an "agency fee". This is because the union negotiates on behalf of ALL teachers, whether they are members or not. The difference between the union dues and the agency fee is so small, teachers might as well join so they also can benefit from support by Field Representatives, etc.

Avalon wrote:

I am so tired of the meme that teachers' unions prevent administrators from getting rid of bad teachers. This is a myth. Unions provide steps that administrators must follow to, first, try to rehabilitate the teacher, and then, if necessary, fire them. They protect teachers from being fired by administrators who may want to get rid of them for reasons other than being poor teachers. That being said, there are extreme situations where teachers can be fired without these steps.
I can only speak for the Baltimore Teachers Union, of which I am a member. Teachers are not required to join, nor are they strong-armed. If they do not join, they still must pay an "agency fee". This is because the union negotiates on behalf of ALL teachers, whether they are members or not. The difference between the union dues and the agency fee is so small, teachers might as well join so they also can benefit from support by Field Representatives, etc.

You must not read your own union notices. My wife is a former employee of the failed BCPSS. She joined the union because if you do not, you are NOT entitled to all the benefits of a union member. For example, non-union teachers must report at regular time on days school is delayed. Non-union teachers must report on weather-related cancelled days of school, unless the school board announces the administrative offices are closed. No, BCPSS does not "strong-arm" a teacher to join the union, but if you choose not to, you are forced to work many additional hours for the same rate of pay. Name one teacher who will do that....

Mdsuburbs wrote:

<quoted text>
Want to get paid for not working, join a union. Want to have absolute job protection, no matter how bad an employee you are, join a union. Don't want to risk any of you own money, efforts,or talent, join a union.
Know why the American auto industry has a failed business plan?? You got it!!! The unions.
You must be a government employee " no name". I guess I'm paying you to rent while on the job?

What a bunch of bull bunk...

I just came back from an office supply store...there were several employees 'working' there. I have been to plenty of private sector places where people did nothing or next to nothing and never get fired.

Keep attacking union labor...the Republicans in the Senate are trying to destroy the UAW...the last major non-government union.

name not important wrote:

What shallow and ignorant voices we have speaking in this country. You really think you, Joe Six Pack, part of the shrinking middle class (more on that in a minute) would be where you are today without unions? Let's roll back the clock to 1890. What were the working conditions like? What was job security like? Health care? We formed the wealthiest country in the world in the post WW2 era and unions were a big part of spreading the success. People could actually raise families with only Dad working, imagine! I see huge correlations with the shrinking middle class and the destruction of the unions. No one to protect your jobs, the jobs are outsourced. No one to protect you, the legislators encourage with tax incentives foreign car companies to build plants in this country and totally instabilize our auto economy. No one to protect you, health care is destroyed. No one to protect you, Wallyworld hires people at 17000 a year for a full time cashiers job and charges them 25% of their pay if they want health care. No one to protect you, Wallyworld imports 70% of their goods from China.
My wife is a teacher, she does not like the union, but we (our family) certainly benefits from it. I'm delighted to pay their dues.
My father was a plant manager of a large unionized factory (big one here in Balto). He was not part of the union, and he hated dealing with the union, but he always said one thing. Every time "they", the union, get something, so did he. And he knew the Republicans that control industry would never give anybody anything unless they had to.
So, Republicans, go ahead with your ever ending campaign to kill unions. I hope you are of rich and powerful elite, because if you are Joe Six Pack you are doing nothing less than suicide.
You neanderthal R's out there should ask yourself a bonus question sometime. How is it that AIG, a company that is barely on the consciousness of normal Americans, gets 172 billion in bailouts, no strings attached, gets to keep going to resorts and paying "retention" fees that appear to be year end bonuses, while Big 3 can't get $20 billion? It is because the southern Senators, the "firewall" gang, are protecting the foreign motor companies that have built plants there, but moreover the forever agenda item of Republicans to kill unions.

Excellent post! Yes, the dishonorable Southern Repugnant Senators are trying to destroy the UAW and the Big Three. Luckily, George Bush has done the honorable thing and offered to take part of the 700 billion dollar Wallstreet handout and loan it to GM and Chrysler.

Dee wrote:

<quoted text>
You must not read your own union notices. My wife is a former employee of the failed BCPSS. She joined the union because if you do not, you are NOT entitled to all the benefits of a union member. For example, non-union teachers must report at regular time on days school is delayed. Non-union teachers must report on weather-related cancelled days of school, unless the school board announces the administrative offices are closed. No, BCPSS does not "strong-arm" a teacher to join the union, but if you choose not to, you are forced to work many additional hours for the same rate of pay. Name one teacher who will do that....

UH-DUH...that is why you join a union, so that you won't be forced to work extra hours or have extra duties without extra pay or compensation.

Without the union, teachers would make what private school teachers do which is generally much less. Private school teachers also have additional responsibilities such as coaching and generally receive no extra compensation. Private school teachers generally also have no retirement benefits.

Recently, BCPS tried to force teachers to work extra time without additional compensation and the county tried to keep teachers from receiving a COLA increase. The teacher's union protested against the actions.

But let me let you in on a fact...most public school teachers work 10-12 hours a day a school and/or at home (when grading tests or essays 14-16 hours per day). If you don't put in the time and effort, you won't make it.

name not important wrote:

What shallow and ignorant voices we have speaking in this country. You really think you, Joe Six Pack, part of the shrinking middle class (more on that in a minute) would be where you are today without unions? Let's roll back the clock to 1890. What were the working conditions like? What was job security like? Health care? We formed the wealthiest country in the world in the post WW2 era and unions were a big part of spreading the success. People could actually raise families with only Dad working, imagine! I see huge correlations with the shrinking middle class and the destruction of the unions. No one to protect your jobs, the jobs are outsourced. No one to protect you, the legislators encourage with tax incentives foreign car companies to build plants in this country and totally instabilize our auto economy. No one to protect you, health care is destroyed. No one to protect you, Wallyworld hires people at 17000 a year for a full time cashiers job and charges them 25% of their pay if they want health care. No one to protect you, Wallyworld imports 70% of their goods from China.
My wife is a teacher, she does not like the union, but we (our family) certainly benefits from it. I'm delighted to pay their dues.
My father was a plant manager of a large unionized factory (big one here in Balto). He was not part of the union, and he hated dealing with the union, but he always said one thing. Every time "they", the union, get something, so did he. And he knew the Republicans that control industry would never give anybody anything unless they had to.
So, Republicans, go ahead with your ever ending campaign to kill unions. I hope you are of rich and powerful elite, because if you are Joe Six Pack you are doing nothing less than suicide.
You neanderthal R's out there should ask yourself a bonus question sometime. How is it that AIG, a company that is barely on the consciousness of normal Americans, gets 172 billion in bailouts, no strings attached, gets to keep going to resorts and paying "retention" fees that appear to be year end bonuses, while Big 3 can't get $20 billion? It is because the southern Senators, the "firewall" gang, are protecting the foreign motor companies that have built plants there, but moreover the forever agenda item of Republicans to kill unions.

excellent post!

Mdsuburbs wrote:

<quoted text>
Want to get paid for not working, join a union. Want to have absolute job protection, no matter how bad an employee you are, join a union. Don't want to risk any of you own money, efforts,or talent, join a union.
Know why the American auto industry has a failed business plan?? You got it!!! The unions.
You must be a government employee " no name". I guess I'm paying you to rent while on the job?

Ever hear the saying, "if you can read, thank a teacher", it should be amended to, if you have a good standard of living that you didn't steal or inherit, than thank a union (somewhere, somehow)". This country's middle class was formed and solidified in the post WW2 era because of unions, and the disintegration of the middle class is because of the disembowelment of the unions from the right wing of this country. So, I'm guessing YOU are either rich or stupid for the statement you made above.

Blaming the unions entirely for the auto mess is like blaming actors for the high cost of movies or players for the high cost of sports....it takes a compliant management to be the conduit, and a compliant consumer to keep paying for it.

Dee wrote:

<quoted text>
You must not read your own union notices. My wife is a former employee of the failed BCPSS. She joined the union because if you do not, you are NOT entitled to all the benefits of a union member. For example, non-union teachers must report at regular time on days school is delayed. Non-union teachers must report on weather-related cancelled days of school, unless the school board announces the administrative offices are closed. No, BCPSS does not "strong-arm" a teacher to join the union, but if you choose not to, you are forced to work many additional hours for the same rate of pay. Name one teacher who will do that....

I didn't say non-members received ALL the benefits of members. However, non-members and members work the same hours and are covered by the same contract. Non-member teachers DO NOT report to school when there are weather-related closings. I would love to know who convinced your wife that she had to work additional hours when she wasn't a union member. Heck, I've never had one principal who showed any awareness of who did or didn't belong to the union! The agency fee is charged because the Union negotiates the contract that covers teachers whether they're members or not.(This can be found in sections 2.8 & 2.15 and addendum IV of the contract.)

Unions lost the reason for existance decades ago. If GM wasn't unionized, do you know what salary, including benefits, they would pay? How about a salary based upon their skill and education. Just read today that the average salary and benes for a UAW are $67/hour.$30 for salary,$37 for benes. The average benes for a non-union employee is about 33%, which should be about $10 for a salary of $30. This is why the UAW is primarily responsible for the Big3's demise.

David in WM wrote:

Unions lost the reason for existance decades ago. If GM wasn't unionized, do you know what salary, including benefits, they would pay? How about a salary based upon their skill and education. Just read today that the average salary and benes for a UAW are $67/hour.$30 for salary,$37 for benes. The average benes for a non-union employee is about 33%, which should be about $10 for a salary of $30. This is why the UAW is primarily responsible for the Big3's demise.

No, it is not. The UAW doesn't plan, design, or market the cars. They assemble them. They make some of the parts.

It is the stupid decisions of management like continuing to build monster SUVs after for three years after gas prices went up or for opposing lowering CAFE standards.

Zorro wrote:

<quoted text>
No, it is not. The UAW doesn't plan, design, or market the cars. They assemble them. They make some of the parts.
It is the stupid decisions of management like continuing to build monster SUVs after for three years after gas prices went up or for opposing lowering CAFE standards.

No, they are just forced to make cheap,under engineered cars to accommodate their sky high labor costs.

David in WM wrote:

<quoted text>
No, they are just forced to make cheap,under engineered cars to accommodate their sky high labor costs.

I just googled what I wrote and there were hundreds of articles backing up what I said.

I found none backing up your first allegation and only anti-union b.s. backing your second allegation.

Zorro wrote:

<quoted text>
I just googled what I wrote and there were hundreds of articles backing up what I said.
I found none backing up your first allegation and only anti-union b.s. backing your second allegation.

You need to google to see if the Big 3 make cheap, under engineered cars? I've purchased both and saw it myself.

This is from the AP within the last week:
In terms of hourly wages, the pay scales are similar. For instance, General Motors says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.

The difference is in the benefits, however. GM's hourly labor costs (including pensions and health care) total $69 for active workers. Toyota's total about $48 per hour at older U.S. plants.