Discipline's cost

Labeling suspensions as the cause of criminal activity is a mistake. The behavior that inspired the suspension most likely dwells in the student during the 16 hours the student is not in school. The young man being raised by a single mother might suffer due to his lack of a strong father-figure. The student who was drinking beer in China might have a problem with alcohol caused by some other problems at home. The children who hit or shove other students are most likely acting out because of a lack of attention and support within their families. School can never take the place of a parent. Students walk into schools devastated by divorce, poverty, abuse and neglect. These issue are what most likely lead the students to drugs and crime. The suspensions are a response to behavior, but they don't cause the behavior. While my heart goes out to the young man who misses days of learning due to a suspension, I feel more compassion for the dozens of children's whose daily instruction is interrupted by this one student's poor choices. No one considers those other children who are making good choices, but are hurt by those few who make bad choices. If your co-worker pushed you or threw a tennis ball across the room, you would expect that this co-worker would be removed. I am not sure if sending these children home is the right answer, but I know the devastating effect an angry or unmotivated student can have on a room full of children. Quite possibly these other children are struggling, too, and this one student's behavior is the thing that will put the entire class days behind. I hate to sacrifice the few for the many, but I can not tolerate punishing students who are following the rules by allowing those few who do not follow the rules to remain in the classroom.

Let's be honest, the majority of the blame for student misbehavior goes to the parents. I realize we can not legislate parenting, but we can at least define the argument before we publish it in print. Foster care, divorce, drugs and alcohol, poverty... all of these are burdens that many of our children must bear as they slump through the halls of our middle and high schools. I agree we need to offer more counseling. We would be wise to strengthen the support teams that offer help to children in school. However, it's clear: schools are being forced to do the job of a parent. Truancy and drug use and violent behavior are not inspired by strict rules about running in the hall. Most often, they are the result of deeply rooted problems. I think there are more relevant causes for the poor decisions children make than suspensions and expulsions. I think we need to look deeper for these cause than just the packed row of chairs outside of the principal's office. I think it's time to face the truth even if it makes us all a little uncomfortable.

Children who know the rules and deliberately break them are acting irresponsibly and should be treated accordingly. I do not agree with the bleeding hearts who are unable and/or unwilling to act like responsible parents and teach their children a modicum of discipline at home. Disruptive children in school have a negative impact on the learning environment for all the children in the class. The incident involving the boy with the beer bottle was instructive: if being a member of the honor society meant so much, he should have obeyed the rules. It's that simple! School is not a place to "hang out," it's a place for all students to learn. The children who repeatedly break the rules in school are often the same ones who are breaking the rules (laws) outside of school. Eventually, they find themselves shackled in the back of a police car and later incarcerated. Then they are baffled. How is it I'm in jail for behaving in a manner that my parents and my school taught me was acceptable?

and not be assaulted by kids who should never have been born.
My local elementary schools is OK for now, but its Catholic school all the way in about 5 years. Lets hope the dems don't wise up about school vouchers.... otherwise, I'll have to find another alternative.
And finally, the idiot who wrote the headline should be fired. It should read:
Thousands of Md. students are suspended each year, often those who should be on death row....

There has to be consequnces for bad choices. It is probably the main reason that everyone acks somewhat within the law. I get the feeling you want us to feel sorry for these kids. We need more detention centers, bring back the draft, keep them seperated from good kids. We all know if you play in dirt, you will get dirty.

Here are a few questions I have for them.

Number One: Why are so many black or minority children suspended from schools for things that white children are not suspended from schools for? I saw this when I was in high school, and I absolutely never understood it!

Number Two: Why don't they realize that most times, when a child or teenager is misbehaving in school, it is because they ALREADY KNOW what a teacher is teaching them? That is the MAJOR reason why I was a 'problem student' in elementary school, because nearly everything they were supposed to be 'teaching me', I already knew how to do so I was bored out of my mind! I know many other students who that was the problem with their misbehavior in school.

And also, let me get this straight: they are suspending students for 'talking back to a teacher'? Did they ever think that maybe the teacher DESERVED to be talked back to, as one teacher in high school did when I talked back to him and was supported by the whole rest of the class, and the parents of the other students when they found out about it?
Suspending a student for saying something 'mean' to another student? That is not worth a suspension. That isn't even worth a trip to the principals office!

As to the issue of 'zero tolerance'..... zero tolerance is stupid and counterproductive. Even the PEOPLE WHO INVENTED IT 20 YEARS AGO ARE SAYING THAT!

On the last point: disruption of schools? Please. Every time someone is bucking the system, they bring that STUPID argument up.
Most time, the 'disruption' of the school isn't really a disruption at all. One time, a teacher was going to send another child to the principal for asking a bunch of questions in class, saying "He should know this stuff!" I stood up and told her "Listen, I am one of your better students, and if I wasn't so perpetually shy, I WOULD BE ASKING YOU THESE SAME QUESTIONS!" That changed her mind.

Mike Baltimore wrote:

There has to be consequnces for bad choices.

The problem is that it is usually only 'society' saying that a choice is bad. Frankly,'society' has no right to push THEIR beliefs on other people, except in three areas: do not kill, do not steal, and do not force someone into sex with threats of force or actual physical force.

That is IT as to what society is allowed to dictate to other people.

I'll be blunt: I want my children to challenge authority figures. I want OTHER children to challenge authority figures, and I tell them ALL THE TIME that they should challenge authority figures if something they hear from those authority figures does not 'ring true' for them.

I am a hard core Republican, but I disagree with what the previous posters wrote and suggested.

Lets really have a debate about the larger issue. Single parenting. I would have liked more of a breakdown on the serious offenders and single parent households. And I would believe, and no I dont have the data, most of those single households are single mothers. I will get back to that. So lets really delve into the effectiveness of suspension. OK, lets send a kid home for 2 weeks for not coming to school. Does anyone see the stupidity in that? Who thought up these things? And being that is a single parent home, what punishment is that? They will play Xbox or surf the internet all day, or worse, go out, sell drugs or steal cars, as in Mr. Browns case (sorry, but this guy was too far gone). Make a punishment that makes the individual realize there is a cost for their actions. Suspending someone for truancy is actually rewarding them. Idiocy at the top. I was fortunate to grow up to live in a two parent home with a stay at home mom, and I can assure you, there would be hell to pay if I ever got suspended. With single parents, kids can intecept notices and voice mail to their parents quite easily, and the parent never knows there is an issue. I praise Ms. Brown in her attempts for her son. I just think he has some issues too ingrained in him at this point. But for truancy and many of these kids, in-school detention would have a much greater impact on them. They would be isolated from their peers, forced to still school work in a bland room with a bunch of kids they presumably dont know. I did that a couple of times, and that was hell.

As far as the kid with the beer bottle in China. Give me a break. Sure it was a rule, but an incredibly stupid, assanine rule. Unless he was breaking the law in China (dont know their drinking age) its stupid to impose our laws on a person in a foriegn country. Thats like when the Islamists beat up Muslims in the US for selling alchohol. It is the exact same thing. Is that what we want? If you are so concerned about a kid drinking a beer in a country where it is presumably legal (and I have read many articles where it was legal and same thing happened), THEN DONT TAKE THEM THERE!! This is not rocket science! So, you want to introduce them to other cultures, and they sit with local contemporaries that have a beer, but they cannot, because it is illegal back home. There is no logic in that, so just stop taking them overseas, and this would be a non-issue.

And to Bill, I suggest you are off base about the bleeding hearts. They ARE the ones that introduced these poilicies. For the safety of their own precious children. They can't deal with a problem, so they think they can just remove it. But that problem grows and festers. Considering how much sway and power the Dems have in MD, who do you think got this stuff passed in the first place?

Back to the single parenting and mothers being the predominate of those households. To preface this, I believe humans are animals, highly evolved, but animals none the less. I read an article sevral years ago about an African country that was trying to re-introduce elephants to a section of the country. They were nearly all young males they bought from one of the other countries with a robust elephant population. They had tremendous problems with them causing mischief, tearing up crops, tearing down fences of villages, to the point they had to start putting some down. Then they brought in some elder mature male elephants, and it all stopped. The mature elephants put the youngers in their place and kept order, and presumably, knew the youngers behaviour was way out of line. Interesting, and in cases such as I read in this article, very parallel. The single parent home is not a liberation, it is a cancer that will haunt this nation long into the future.

Christopher wrote:

<quoted text>
The problem is that it is usually only 'society' saying that a choice is bad. Frankly,'society' has no right to push THEIR beliefs on other people, except in three areas: do not kill, do not steal, and do not force someone into sex with threats of force or actual physical force.
That is IT as to what society is allowed to dictate to other people.
I'll be blunt: I want my children to challenge authority figures. I want OTHER children to challenge authority figures, and I tell them ALL THE TIME that they should challenge authority figures if something they hear from those authority figures does not 'ring true' for them.

There is challenging authority and respect for authority. As for a teacher calling out a kid, that is wrong. For a kid calling out a teacher, then that is wrong too. A smack across the mouth for you would have been better than a trip to the principals office. But that would lead to a lawsuit in this bleeding heart country. Question: if you already knew all of this stuff, why weren't you in higher placed classes?

Christopher: BTW, I reread what I posted, and that was not intended as a slap at you regarding the higher placed classes. Was just curious. I didnt like the way it was written until after I posted. Sorry, no offense intended.

Suspension HELPS the other students. It removes disruption from the classroom.
Why do we focus on the worst segments of our society?

Rules first, not "rights"--
Otherwise, anarchy....

"The problem is that it is usually only 'society' saying that a choice is bad. Frankly,'society' has no right to push THEIR beliefs on other people"

But what is the purpose of schools? THe purpose is to prepare students to become productive citizens in society!!!!!!! How do teachers do that when parents and others assume to know how to educate better? I do not go to a doctor and tell him the proper way to operate? Schools are not parents. Why are all the parents quoted those whose children have been suspended? I would not want my child to have to deal with a dsruption in their education. The one parent sat with her student, and he still ended up in jail? how is that the problem of the school? "The schools wouldnt help" is the excuse used by many parents for their lack of involvement in their children's lives. Teach them how to properly parent BEFORE the students are in school. Proper behavior should start at home. Oh,and why should it be ok for a student to disrupt a class? One student should not have the right to stop the education of 20 to 30 others!

Maybe we should start setting murderers free, because we have not taken the time to figure out what the victims did to make them upset enough to kill them?

Baltimore Teacher wrote:

"The problem is that it is usually only 'society' saying that a choice is bad. Frankly,'society' has no right to push THEIR beliefs on other people"
But what is the purpose of schools? THe purpose is to prepare students to become productive citizens in society!!!!!!! How do teachers do that when parents and others assume to know how to educate better? I do not go to a doctor and tell him the proper way to operate? Schools are not parents. Why are all the parents quoted those whose children have been suspended? I would not want my child to have to deal with a dsruption in their education. The one parent sat with her student, and he still ended up in jail? how is that the problem of the school? "The schools wouldnt help" is the excuse used by many parents for their lack of involvement in their children's lives. Teach them how to properly parent BEFORE the students are in school. Proper behavior should start at home. Oh,and why should it be ok for a student to disrupt a class? One student should not have the right to stop the education of 20 to 30 others!
Maybe we should start setting murderers free, because we have not taken the time to figure out what the victims did to make them upset enough to kill them?

Sorry, I have learned from my mother and from personal experience, I do research things before going to a doctor nowadays. And I do question their judgement. It has helped us with them. If you know what you are talking about, they are much more on their toes and take you more seriously.

And yes, for Ms. Brown, her son was too far down the wrong path. We have to admit, NOTHING in this world is 100%. Unfortunately I think the left feels there are sweeping answers that are 100% cures for every problem. There are none. In a nation of 300 million, no law or rule can have 100% results. Its ignorant to think that.

The fact is that parents are the major problem in public education today. They want their children to remain in school, but they don't teach their children to respect teachers, education, or the learning environment. If you are a parent, and you don't want your child suspended, then teach your child to be respectful and to engage in appropriate behavior. A child who is disrespectful to the teacher or other students, or who engages in dangerous or disruptive behavior, must be removed from the system so that other students may learn. Schools are against zero-tolerance because schools are not interested in educating students, they are interested in keeping up test scores and securing state and federal monies. Parents are against zero-tolerance because they don't want to take responsibility for their disruptive children. No one wants to take responsibility for the problem except the teachers who are blamed for wanting to be respected and for wanting an environment in which all children have opportunities for learning.

This is ridiculous! My kids go to good Howard County schools, but even in these schools there is not enough discipline, let alone too much. My son takes all honors and GT classes now, even though the workload overwhelms him (he has an attention deficit, but no behavioral problems) because the regular classes (some of which may be a better pace for him) are full of gangsta types who won't listen and are disruptive. His Algebra 2 teacher is out on maternity leave, and they've gone through a few long term subs already because the gangstas won't shut the bleep up and let the rest of the class learn! Last year this gangsta type kid walked right into the middle of his English class (why was he wandering the halls during class?)interrupted the class and started walking all around the desks looking for something. The teacher was stunned and just said, "Excuse me may I help you?" and the kid just kept wandering through the classroom and finally said "I'm looking for my grill!" And this is Ellicott City!

Since when is insubordination by a student considered a minor offense as stated by the author of this article?

Any student who talks back to a teacher and willfully refuses to follow basic directions is one who has no respect for authority. That same student will push the envelope and make a bad situation worse.

Students who have a respect for authority and school are the same ones who will do well academically.

The state can certainly use more students just like you. You are a role model who should be held up for others to follow.

Christopher wrote:

Here are a few questions I have for them.
Number One: Why are so many black or minority children suspended from schools for things that white children are not suspended from schools for? I saw this when I was in high school, and I absolutely never understood it!
Number Two: Why don't they realize that most times, when a child or teenager is misbehaving in school, it is because they ALREADY KNOW what a teacher is teaching them? That is the MAJOR reason why I was a 'problem student' in elementary school, because nearly everything they were supposed to be 'teaching me', I already knew how to do so I was bored out of my mind! I know many other students who that was the problem with their misbehavior in school.
And also, let me get this straight: they are suspending students for 'talking back to a teacher'? Did they ever think that maybe the teacher DESERVED to be talked back to, as one teacher in high school did when I talked back to him and was supported by the whole rest of the class, and the parents of the other students when they found out about it?
Suspending a student for saying something 'mean' to another student? That is not worth a suspension. That isn't even worth a trip to the principals office!
As to the issue of 'zero tolerance'..... zero tolerance is stupid and counterproductive. Even the PEOPLE WHO INVENTED IT 20 YEARS AGO ARE SAYING THAT!
On the last point: disruption of schools? Please. Every time someone is bucking the system, they bring that STUPID argument up.
Most time, the 'disruption' of the school isn't really a disruption at all. One time, a teacher was going to send another child to the principal for asking a bunch of questions in class, saying "He should know this stuff!" I stood up and told her "Listen, I am one of your better students, and if I wasn't so perpetually shy, I WOULD BE ASKING YOU THESE SAME QUESTIONS!" That changed her mind.

Christopher wrote:

<quoted text>
The problem is that it is usually only 'society' saying that a choice is bad. Frankly,'society' has no right to push THEIR beliefs on other people, except in three areas: do not kill, do not steal, and do not force someone into sex with threats of force or actual physical force.
That is IT as to what society is allowed to dictate to other people.
I'll be blunt: I want my children to challenge authority figures. I want OTHER children to challenge authority figures, and I tell them ALL THE TIME that they should challenge authority figures if something they hear from those authority figures does not 'ring true' for them.

Christopher, you have got a screw loose.

I love the moms who are making excuses....

Let's see...

One son threw a tennis ball at someone's head and lit a girl's hair on fire....

One was caught with beer....

One was caught with marijuana....

Hahahahaha....the parents are just as crazy as the kids.....How can you say the penalty is too harsh?? These are the same parents who would be up in arms if some other kid did it and it disrupted their child's education....Talk about hypocrisy....

Crazy liberals...Do like China and kick them out if they don't take their education serious. And one last thing..as a public school teacher, I can tell you that my two children are DEFINITELY going to private school....

I feel so sorry for the mom who quit her job and tried so hard to help her son. I wonder where Dad was?

Inidentally, very many of these kids have fetal alcohol syndrome, most likely undiagnosed.