Stand up for Laurel Lake

Question, to buy the property where would the town get the money? The town of Lee this year ( if the Town Reps pass the article for $6000 and change) will spend over $50,000 to open and staff the beach,$50,000 is alot of money for a 3 month at best period. As a tax payer of Lee I would much rather see the town relocate the beach to property it already owns on the other side of the lake.(I want to hear from some one with more Knowledge of lake conservation than the chairperson of the Sandy Beach Committtee) Also I along with others in town are sick of the witch hunt Monica Ryan and others are waging against Robert Scheurer,

Sort of like Pontoosucc Lake docks that were wiped of the map along with the popcorn wagon

Irish wrote:

Question, to buy the property where would the town get the money? The town of Lee this year ( if the Town Reps pass the article for $6000 and change) will spend over $50,000 to open and staff the beach,$50,000 is alot of money for a 3 month at best period. As a tax payer of Lee I would much rather see the town relocate the beach to property it already owns on the other side of the lake.(I want to hear from some one with more Knowledge of lake conservation than the chairperson of the Sandy Beach Committtee) Also I along with others in town are sick of the witch hunt Monica Ryan and others are waging against Robert Scheurer,

I am also becoming nauseous due to the venom being spewed at Scheurer!
I do not know the man,but he was wise enough to make the investment,with an eye for a profit!
It is called business,and the Town had plenty of notice that the dam and surrounding parcel were going to be available on the open market!
If I am not mistaken the area the Town owns is pretty much soft bottom and shallows!

ramdan wrote:

<quoted text>
I am also becoming nauseous due to the venom being spewed at Scheurer!
I do not know the man,but he was wise enough to make the investment,with an eye for a profit!
It is called business,and the Town had plenty of notice that the dam and surrounding parcel were going to be available on the open market!
If I am not mistaken the area the Town owns is pretty much soft bottom and shallows!

We, the towns people through our reps, were reassured that the new owners did not express any desire to close off the beach road if they did purchase the property the dam was on.
You can read this through the town meeting minutes at.......http://www.lee.ma.us/ Selectmen/Minutes/2009/SB_Min_ 090106.pdf.

We were all misled !!!!!

We, the towns people through our reps, were reassured that the new owners did not express any desire to close off the beach road if they did purchase the property the dam was on.
Here is an excerpt from those minutes;
Roger Scheurer, Manager of the Schweitzer-Mauduit Lee mills, spoke about there being three parties involved with
the beach and its use, the town, Highlawn Farm and the owner of the dam. He felt the Sandy Beach Committee has been
detrimental to the cause of the Beach. He would like to work with the town. Selectman Carlino asked Ms. Consolati what
would happen if Highlawn Farm no longer allowed the town the use of the beach. She also asked if the Sandy Beach
Committee would be willing to discuss any options with an individual owner. Denise Scheurer, wife of Roger, asked Ms.
Consolati if at any time did the Scheurers express any desire to close off the beach road if they did purchase the property the
dam was on. "
You can read this through the town meeting minutes at.......http://www.lee.ma.us/ Selectmen/Minutes/2009/SB_Min_ 090106.pdf.

We were all misled !!!!!

anne from lee wrote:

We, the towns people through our reps, were reassured that the new owners did not express any desire to close off the beach road if they did purchase the property the dam was on.
Here is an excerpt from those minutes;
Roger Scheurer, Manager of the Schweitzer-Mauduit Lee mills, spoke about there being three parties involved with
the beach and its use, the town, Highlawn Farm and the owner of the dam. He felt the Sandy Beach Committee has been
detrimental to the cause of the Beach. He would like to work with the town. Selectman Carlino asked Ms. Consolati what
would happen if Highlawn Farm no longer allowed the town the use of the beach. She also asked if the Sandy Beach
Committee would be willing to discuss any options with an individual owner. Denise Scheurer, wife of Roger, asked Ms.
Consolati if at any time did the Scheurers express any desire to close off the beach road if they did purchase the property the
dam was on. "
You can read this through the town meeting minutes at.......http://www.lee.ma.us/ Selectmen/Minutes/2009/SB_Min_ 090106.pdf.
We were all misled !!!!!

Shame on the Town selectmen and the Town attorney who should have used a modicum of legal sense!
Remember the scorpion who wanted the frog to take him across the pond? The frog said no way,you will sting me and I will die! The scorpion said no way frog,for then I too will perish! The frog succumbed to the scorpions reasoning and halfway across the scorpion stung him! The frog asked why did you do that,now we will both die?
The scorpion said,well I am after all a scorpion and that is what we do!
Never succumb to the line for suckers! This is what legal counsel is for!

Monica Ryan getting her facts wrong? Why am I not surprised? Ms. Ryan states: "Mr. Scheurer specifically stated that the beach must be closed one half hour before sunset." In reality, Mr. Scheurer does not own the beach! He couldn't possibly force it to close half an hour before sunset or any other time. All he can do is prohibit public vehicular traffic across his property. Throughout her diatribe, Ms. Ryan conflates the beach itself with the access road. She is either very confused or intentionally attempting to mislead the public that Sandy Beach itself is in danger of being closed?

But Ms. Ryan's lies don't stop there. She continues to advance the ridiculous legal contention that: "Not one penny should be spent for a right we already own." Ms. Ryan simply does not know what she is talking about. The previous letter to the editor ("Fickle friends of Sandy Beach") totally debunked Ms. Ryan's insanity on this issue -- and not once in her 1000 word essay does Ms. Ryan refute any of the concrete legal points in that previous submission. Instead all we get are the uninformed musings of someone who clearly knows nothing about the law. Watch the Sandy Beach Committee meeting on the local cable access channel from last week and you'll see the Town Manager confront Ms. Ryan on her continued ignorant statements.

I challenge Ms. Ryan to provide something -- anything!-- in terms of a legal rationale for her continued claims that the public has a right to cross Mr. Scheurer's property in the absence of an agreement with the Town. While Ms. Ryan may rely on Chapter 91 of the Mass. General Laws, an easement across private property for access to a Great Pond can only be granted if there is no other way for the public to reach the Great Pond in question (here, Laurel Lake). Because the public can access Laurel Lake without crossing Mr. Scheurer's property (e.g., using the public boat ramp on Laurel Street), an easement could never be obtained under that provision. I'm sure this is all much too nuanced and complicated for Ms. Ryan to understand, but it happens to be the law. Clearly, Ms. Ryan's speciality is nonsense, not the law or the truth.

Observer wrote:

Monica Ryan getting her facts wrong? Why am I not surprised? Ms. Ryan states: "Mr. Scheurer specifically stated that the beach must be closed one half hour before sunset." In reality, Mr. Scheurer does not own the beach! He couldn't possibly force it to close half an hour before sunset or any other time. All he can do is prohibit public vehicular traffic across his property. Throughout her diatribe, Ms. Ryan conflates the beach itself with the access road. She is either very confused or intentionally attempting to mislead the public that Sandy Beach itself is in danger of being closed?
But Ms. Ryan's lies don't stop there. She continues to advance the ridiculous legal contention that: "Not one penny should be spent for a right we already own." Ms. Ryan simply does not know what she is talking about. The previous letter to the editor ("Fickle friends of Sandy Beach") totally debunked Ms. Ryan's insanity on this issue -- and not once in her 1000 word essay does Ms. Ryan refute any of the concrete legal points in that previous submission. Instead all we get are the uninformed musings of someone who clearly knows nothing about the law. Watch the Sandy Beach Committee meeting on the local cable access channel from last week and you'll see the Town Manager confront Ms. Ryan on her continued ignorant statements.
I challenge Ms. Ryan to provide something -- anything!-- in terms of a legal rationale for her continued claims that the public has a right to cross Mr. Scheurer's property in the absence of an agreement with the Town. While Ms. Ryan may rely on Chapter 91 of the Mass. General Laws, an easement across private property for access to a Great Pond can only be granted if there is no other way for the public to reach the Great Pond in question (here, Laurel Lake). Because the public can access Laurel Lake without crossing Mr. Scheurer's property (e.g., using the public boat ramp on Laurel Street), an easement could never be obtained under that provision. I'm sure this is all much too nuanced and complicated for Ms. Ryan to understand, but it happens to be the law. Clearly, Ms. Ryan's speciality is nonsense, not the law or the truth.

Observer, great call. Theses are the same people who said we could build a water treatment plant for 12 M only to have it cost 20M+ and hissed at the opposition and acted like thugs all while claiming they were "right." They hardly ever get their facts straight before they spout off. Show me one real lawyer who knows MA law and the real facts that supports their ridiculous claim. Not her Dad the Judge, whoever he is, or the lawyer they always rope into these things. I think we will be waiting for a while on that one. They need access to get to the beach but consistently whack these poor people over the head with nonsense. They think they have all the cards when they have none. They are not denying access to the beach, they just want some reasonable safeguards and compensation. If it were me I would have told them to pound sand (pun intended) a long time ago, esp. after the way they were treated. There is no constitutional, inalienable right to beach access despite the nonsense they keep bringing up which is mostly irrelevant and complete bs....$

Pay up or find another beach to go to.

"Observer" is right on the money. I am so sick and tired of this nonsense. The deal is done and instead of letting the Selectmen do their job and try and negotiate with Roger in a manner which would benefit the Town, Monica and several others have only made matters worse. Roger owns the road and the dam, nothing you can do about it now. Stop being irrational and childish. All this fighting and bickering over a road the town doesn't own to a beach the town doesn't own. Grow Up Monica.

This is much bigger than a simple beach access road. It has to do with the complete aspect of laurel lake and the current owners disregard for the environment and or any type of authority. they have time and time again done work and had a draw down of this lake with out any permits.
causing fish and aquatic life to die, and harm to the greatest natural resource of our town !!!
so, you should do a little research about this owners behavior. Here are picture of the truth !!!
check them out, you may be as disgusted as many of the rest of the residents here in lee.
..........
http://mysite.verizon.net/tedbier59/drawdown1...
http://mysite.verizon.net/tedbier59/lake1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/tedbier59/shore1.jp...

Leave the beach closed. Let Roger have his dam & his road all to himself.

It Does Happen wrote:

"Observer" is right on the money. I am so sick and tired of this nonsense. The deal is done and instead of letting the Selectmen do their job and try and negotiate with Roger in a manner which would benefit the Town, Monica and several others have only made matters worse. Roger owns the road and the dam, nothing you can do about it now. Stop being irrational and childish. All this fighting and bickering over a road the town doesn't own to a beach the town doesn't own. Grow Up Monica.

Doubt they will grow up, this is their pattern of negative, disruptive and counter-productive behavior going back years. Remember when the Outlet Mall was going to destroy the Town? Good thing they are paying such large taxes now and keeping the Town out of bankruptcy (and this all from many people who don't even pay taxes in Town). Good thing the new schools turned out so badly and that the restoration of the Central school also failed just had they predicted on those projects.... NOT.

anne from lee wrote:

This is much bigger than a simple beach access road. It has to do with the complete aspect of laurel lake and the current owners disregard for the environment and or any type of authority. they have time and time again done work and had a draw down of this lake with out any permits.
causing fish and aquatic life to die, and harm to the greatest natural resource of our town !!!
so, you should do a little research about this owners behavior. Here are picture of the truth !!!
check them out, you may be as disgusted as many of the rest of the residents here in lee.
..........
http://mysite.verizon.net/tedbier59/drawdown1...
http://mysite.verizon.net/tedbier59/lake1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/tedbier59/shore1.jp...

The owners behavior does not alter the fact that the Town fathers and their highly paid attorneys dropped the ball!

Skeptical Onlooker wrote:

<quoted text>
Not her Dad the Judge, whoever he is, or the lawyer they always rope into these things. I think we will be waiting for a while on that one.

I see they rolled out Mr. Seigars in today's paper as anticipated.... so shocking the way they operate in the same old way, every single time....

After watching the Selectmens meeting last nite I thought to myself when did Harvard Law School move to Lee? I belive Monica Ryan and crew have been watching to many Law themed TV shows. Its quit simple If you Ms,Ryan and Consolati and crew want the Dam so bad why didnt you (OUT OF YOUR POCKET NOT THE TOWN OF LEE ) join in and bid on the land. It was a private deal, And were on earth did you think the $$$ would come from the town is already straped for funds as it is ..........

Skeptical Onlooker wrote:

<quoted text>
Observer, great call. Theses are the same people who said we could build a water treatment plant for 12 M only to have it cost 20M+ and hissed at the opposition and acted like thugs all while claiming they were "right." They hardly ever get their facts straight before they spout off. Show me one real lawyer who knows MA law and the real facts that supports their ridiculous claim. Not her Dad the Judge, whoever he is, or the lawyer they always rope into these things. I think we will be waiting for a while on that one. They need access to get to the beach but consistently whack these poor people over the head with nonsense. They think they have all the cards when they have none. They are not denying access to the beach, they just want some reasonable safeguards and compensation. If it were me I would have told them to pound sand (pun intended) a long time ago, esp. after the way they were treated. There is no constitutional, inalienable right to beach access despite the nonsense they keep bringing up which is mostly irrelevant and complete bs....$

it's all madness

woops. i cry for my lake. such mistakes. takes it's toll on the human race. 2 pigs in a crate. 2 roosters and a hen. we aint votin' on this one. or are we children? take zebra muscles and sneaky pete's power. and you give me 2 reasons to cry for my lake. scotty's pond, sweet sargent brook songs, what has become of my beautiful lake

Is this supposed to make sense?