Pilots Agree to Pay Cut at Northwest

Swamp rat wrote:

<quoted text>
Good. And so, I presume, do those who CAN'T get the job of their dreams because they previously crossed a picket line, and those who chafe at the seniority system. But in that case, why were YOU complaining about it?

I guess you've missed something. I'm just trying to explain that the replacement workers have in fact a solid case to REPLACE the 'real' folks.

NWALEAD 11 wrote:

"....3) NWA pilots (and mechanics) struck because they wanted to be at or near the top of the pay scale for no other reason than to be at the top of the pay scale, and effectively shut down the company until they got it. And what a pay scale it was (and still is), particularly for pilots. That, sir, is greed....."
Mechanics struck for money? they offered to take a 20% oaycut... You aRE MAKING UP YOUR OWN FACTS (AND NOT DOING A VERY GOOD JOB AT IT!) BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL ONES!
Don't talk about what you don't know.... and putting a number in front of it doesn't make it true. You are an idiot!

Nah. When you offered your 20% pay cut, you were essentially bargaining for an amount over what management was prepared to pay. A raise, as it were. Management couldn't pay it so they didn't take you up on it.

BTW, 20% of a big number is still a big number. And I've called a few other people idiots on this blog, so I guess I can't complain too much when someone hits me with it :o)

nwa pilot wrote:

<quoted text> So I guess youjust keep hiding out in Seattle ...Seems like your very envious of Pilots...Could'nt make the cut as a Air Force Pilot? You have a lot of anger built up over pilots? What gives? Do you supervise piots at Alaska Airlines?
By the way we have given and given tons of Dollars in the last 14 years to NWA MGT. They even delayed paying our stock for 7 months during the 1990's.
Lets the face the facts. Every dollar NWA MGT gets from its employees a % goes to their MGT Bonus. Thats their Mission. A union whether it is a police union ,Nurses union, Teachers etc...is to maximise its pay and benifits.
I still wonder why you are so jealous of pilots. It must have been prior days in the airforce . We're you enlisted? At least you finally admited something about your past ie Air Force!!!
But what about your current position...
Also you don't admit or address the safety features of ALPA'Swork in the last 75 years or the lack of Jet Blues.
COME CLEAN!!!
COME CLEAN!!!
COME CLEAN !!!
No MORE HIDING!!!!

My current position? Why, I dispel the darkness of ignorance with the light of truth. I bring enlightment to the downtrodden. I rescue the lost with the very beacon of hope. And I promise, I shower regularly so I'm very clean.

Shareholders aren't going to stand for watching their values plummet while management lines its pockets. The SEC would be all over it, as would dozens of congressmen and senators. If you are being robbed blind, why haven't you brought charges? I can only conclude it's because you don't believe NWA management has done anything illegal.

NWALEAD 11 wrote:

"....3) NWA pilots (and mechanics) struck because they wanted to be at or near the top of the pay scale for no other reason than to be at the top of the pay scale, and effectively shut down the company until they got it. And what a pay scale it was (and still is), particularly for pilots. That, sir, is greed....."
Mechanics struck for money? they offered to take a 20% oaycut... You aRE MAKING UP YOUR OWN FACTS (AND NOT DOING A VERY GOOD JOB AT IT!) BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL ONES!
Don't talk about what you don't know.... and putting a number in front of it doesn't make it true. You are an idiot!

If the real NWA management is watching this forum, guess what they think? I bet they are happy to get rid of types who only can scream and call names.

Now about the greed. It was in the good times, when your unions extorted the high pay. It was at that time you folks got everyone around VERY upset: the managers, the investors, and us the passengers. It was at that time your leaders set you up for today's bust.

Unless you start THINKING -- by yourself -- you won't get any life, let alone a good job.

Just a customer wrote:

<quoted text>
If the real NWA management is watching this forum, guess what they think? I bet they are happy to get rid of types who only can scream and call names.
Now about the greed. It was in the good times, when your unions extorted the high pay. It was at that time you folks got everyone around VERY upset: the managers, the investors, and us the passengers. It was at that time your leaders set you up for today's bust.
Unless you start THINKING -- by yourself -- you won't get any life, let alone a good job.

Your right. The level of thieves running NWA has brought our once great airline down to its lowest level.

Seattle-ite wrote:

<quoted text>
My current position? Why, I dispel the darkness of ignorance with the light of truth. I bring enlightment to the downtrodden. I rescue the lost with the very beacon of hope. And I promise, I shower regularly so I'm very clean.
Shareholders aren't going to stand for watching their values plummet while management lines its pockets. The SEC would be all over it, as would dozens of congressmen and senators. If you are being robbed blind, why haven't you brought charges? I can only conclude it's because you don't believe NWA management has done anything illegal.

OUR controlling shareholders are just 2 guys named Cecchi and Wilson. They lead this strategy to bust the employees.
They got the pilots to vote in the 40% pay cut and No work rules contract by promising them that they would retain their pension BUT. they are just waiting until we exit bankruptcy to steal it. When UAL and US Airways went into bankruptcy they turned their pensions over to the PBGC. Cecchi and Wilson saw that and said no way-we want that money.They will take it as soon as we are out of court. This whole thing is a stategy to make a couple of people very rich. The seniority system makes it impossible to just leave and go somewhere else and they know it. Our CEO got 28 mil for taking us into bankruptcy and will get 100 mil when we exit. He is the puppet Cecchi and Wilson ae using. 9/11 SARS(effected 1% ytravel for about a month-big deal)Fuel(a good "management" team would have hedged the fuel. Ours was too busy trying to figure out how to rape the employees. These guys are crooks -they should follow Enron into court. they belong in jail!!

had enough wrote:

<quoted text>
OUR controlling shareholders are just 2 guys named Cecchi and Wilson. They lead this strategy to bust the employees.
They got the pilots to vote in the 40% pay cut and No work rules contract by promising them that they would retain their pension BUT. they are just waiting until we exit bankruptcy to steal it. When UAL and US Airways went into bankruptcy they turned their pensions over to the PBGC. Cecchi and Wilson saw that and said no way-we want that money.They will take it as soon as we are out of court. This whole thing is a stategy to make a couple of people very rich. The seniority system makes it impossible to just leave and go somewhere else and they know it. Our CEO got 28 mil for taking us into bankruptcy and will get 100 mil when we exit. He is the puppet Cecchi and Wilson ae using. 9/11 SARS(effected 1% ytravel for about a month-big deal)Fuel(a good "management" team would have hedged the fuel. Ours was too busy trying to figure out how to rape the employees. These guys are crooks -they should follow Enron into court. they belong in jail!!

Please explain how Cecci and Wilson can get their hands on the pension money. I believe they would go to federal prison if they took a single dollar of pension money for their own use. Call me naive', but I think that would be the case. There is a huge spot light shining on this issue, so I doubt it will happen.

Seattle-ite wrote:

<quoted text>
My current position? Why, I dispel the darkness of ignorance with the light of truth. I bring enlightment to the downtrodden. I rescue the lost with the very beacon of hope. And I promise, I shower regularly so I'm very clean.
Shareholders aren't going to stand for watching their values plummet while management lines its pockets. The SEC would be all over it, as would dozens of congressmen and senators. If you are being robbed blind, why haven't you brought charges? I can only conclude it's because you don't believe NWA management has done anything illegal.

Its a waste of time trying to communicate with someone who is too frightened to admit what they do for a living. You have some serious anger issues. It's in your best interest to seek help.

Good Luck I Won't waste my time with you in this forum.

nwa pilot wrote:

<quoted text>Its a waste of time trying to communicate with someone who is too frightened to admit what they do for a living. You have some serious anger issues. It's in your best interest to seek help.
Good Luck I Won't waste my time with you in this forum.

I are still trying to turn it into a personal issue. Whay do you care who does what for living? Whould you discriminate your passengers if they don't share your views, or work in a 'wrong' place? Whould you refuse to fly an NWA executive?

It's a textbook case. You attack the opponent to steer the debate away from real issues.

That's exactly what your labor leaders want you to do. They say,'Listen only to us, all others have their own agenda, especially the manager types'. This is called brain washing, leads to 'monopoly on opinion'.

Those personal requests 'Come clean!!!' imply that we are wrong people to listen to. Correct?

What is it with you nwa pilot? Is there some reason you have to be told what everyone does for a living that posts here?

You spout about anger issues, I think you have serious mental issues.

nwa pilot wrote:

<quoted text>Its a waste of time trying to communicate with someone who is too frightened to admit what they do for a living. You have some serious anger issues. It's in your best interest to seek help.
Good Luck I Won't waste my time with you in this forum.

That's it; pick up your ball and go home if you can't be quarterback. Bet you don't eat your vegetables either...

Just a customer wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess you've missed something. I'm just trying to explain that the replacement workers have in fact a solid case to REPLACE the 'real' folks.

And, in turn, unionized workers have a solid case to take away the jobs of picket-line crossers, should the opportunity arise. I hope there will be lots of "adjusting, not complaining" when that happens.

Swamp rat wrote:

<quoted text>
And, in turn, unionized workers have a solid case to take away the jobs of picket-line crossers, should the opportunity arise. I hope there will be lots of "adjusting, not complaining" when that happens.

Correct. IF that happens.

They won't get $$ out. Just not pay the 4+ bill NWA owes to pay it off!

NWARETCAPT wrote:

<quoted text>
Please explain how Cecci and Wilson can get their hands on the pension money. I believe they would go to federal prison if they took a single dollar of pension money for their own use. Call me naive', but I think that would be the case. There is a huge spot light shining on this issue, so I doubt it will happen.

DC9er wrote:

They won't get $$ out. Just not pay the 4+ bill NWA owes to pay it off!
<quoted text>

But, isn't it true that both the company and the union are lobbying congress for retirement reform; so that the company can spread out the payments owed over a longer period of time?

Seattle-ite wrote:

<quoted text>
My current position? Why, I dispel the darkness of ignorance with the light of truth. I bring enlightment to the downtrodden. I rescue the lost with the very beacon of hope. And I promise, I shower regularly so I'm very clean.
Shareholders aren't going to stand for watching their values plummet while management lines its pockets. The SEC would be all over it, as would dozens of congressmen and senators. If you are being robbed blind, why haven't you brought charges? I can only conclude it's because you don't believe NWA management has done anything illegal.

"Why, I dispel the darkness of ignorance with the light of truth."

You are a legend in your "own" mind!

"Shareholders aren't going to stand for watching their values plummet while management lines its pockets."

Been there, done that, got the T'shirt.....
"Shareholders" will get pennies on the dollar.

NWARETCAPT wrote:

<quoted text>
But, isn't it true that both the company and the union are lobbying congress for retirement reform; so that the company can spread out the payments owed over a longer period of time?

That is true. However, when (and if) pension reform legislation passes, it will be all too easy for management to say: "Aw, Gee! Congress didn't give us enough relief. We'll have to terminate the pensions after all. So Sorry." This is especially likely if competitors have already done so, since no company wants to be at a labor cost disadvantage.

As for "raiding" the pension fund directly---that's unlikely. However, every dollar owed but NOT paid into the fund is freed up for other corporate purposes, among which are executive pay, perks, and bonuses.

Swamp rat wrote:

<quoted text>
That is true. However, when (and if) pension reform legislation passes, it will be all too easy for management to say: "Aw, Gee! Congress didn't give us enough relief. We'll have to terminate the pensions after all. So Sorry." This is especially likely if competitors have already done so, since no company wants to be at a labor cost disadvantage.
As for "raiding" the pension fund directly---that's unlikely. However, every dollar owed but NOT paid into the fund is freed up for other corporate purposes, among which are executive pay, perks, and bonuses.

With traffic up and the price of a ticket moving upward, I believe the future of NWA is looking better everyday. The concessionary contracts (nothing new about these) will certainly help the airline recover and NWA still has one of the most enviable route structures in the industry.

I believe the company will fund the pension plans (not just the pilots') in a manner that the congress allows, if they (the congress) act on it. Why? Because if NWA doesn't, they will be under scrutiny, once again, by others who will want to know why they didn't hold up their end of the bargain. I doubt that the management at NWA wants to come under the magnifying glass of the SEC right out of bankruptcy.

As a former, long time (34 years) employee and now retiree, I truly support the employees at NWA. I paid many years of dues, walked the picket line, and did what union members do in times of difficult negotiations. I, too, have felt gut wrentching frustration during those times and others, when my future and that of my collegues looked pretty bleak. But I sense this to be a different kind of challenge you all face. I have never heard the vitriol like I have read here. I only hope you can, somehow, reverse this negative energy and use it to bring the company, that for so many years supported you, me, former employees, our families, the community and the cities it has served so well, to a new day of prosperity.

So NWARETCAPT, what future do you see ,through your rose-colored glasses for the AMFA mechanics

NWALEAD 11 wrote:

So NWARETCAPT, what future do you see ,through your rose-colored glasses for the AMFA mechanics

Unfortunately the future for the AMFA mechanics will be bleak baring any major incidents. So far NWA mgmt. can claim that after months and months running the airline without AMFA mechanics the airline is still maintaining safe aircraft as demonstrated by the pilots who fly them everyday and would not fly the aircraft if they were not safe and no major incident has occured. So unless the scabs all go away, it'll be tough going.