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Just an Observer
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What I meant is, and perhaps it will be taken out of context, or misunderstood, is, yes, TransPac, I agree with your summation.
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sara from memphis
AOL
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bob wrote: ok..........so everybody will be working for alot less!
and now the real question!?
when will the bonuses come for nwa management......
They got them right after they went bankrupt...oh you mean the new bonus, that should come after all these paycuts have been voted on and approved, like the next day!
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Just an Observer
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sara from memphis wrote: <quoted text> They got them right after they went bankrupt...oh you mean the new bonus, that should come after all these paycuts have been voted on and approved, like the next day! Or around the time they head back into the arms of the bankruptcy judge.
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sara from memphis
AOL
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Just an Observer wrote: <quoted text> Or around the time they head back into the arms of the bankruptcy judge. Sounds about right!
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came to senses
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You have a clear misunderstanding of not only what it takes to become a pilot but the life style of a pilot plus the fact that it is mandatory for them to retire at age 60 plus they have to pass a first class medical every six months just to keep their jobs!
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bob
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want to put an end to 'top management' looting the company and its employees !
..........
somebody call da boys in chakago !
..........
it worked in the 20s and 30s !
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AA_737CA_Wife
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Frequent Flyer wrote: <quoted text> The flying public does not understand how pilots and flight attendants are compensated. They are only paid when the aircraft doors are closed and the brakes are released. Pay stops when the aircraft arrives at the gate and the brakes are set. Sitting at the airport between flights, pre flight check lists, and boarding of passengers is all done without pay.
Federal air regulations allow them to work 16-hour days with an 8-hour rest. That includes trip to the hotel, which can take up to an hour after the aircraft is parked. Allowing one hour to relax before bed, and get up 2 hours before departure, you can see that 4 hours sleep is about all you will get.
The average duty day lasts over 10 hours, with only five hours of pay. Many pilots and flight attendants work 40-hour weeks with only 20 hours of pay. Some airlines only pay flight time, with no guarantee of any pay while on duty. They could be on duty for 16 hours and only get paid 2 hours, if that was all they had flown that day.
This is one of the reasons pilots and flight attendants are willing to risk their jobs by striking. Most of the major airlines have already taken up to 50% pay cuts. You only have to look at your own finances to see what this means. Many pilots and flight attendants are losing their homes. These are the people that have your lives in their hands.
If you think that flying for a major airline is such a great deal, you can do it to. Take 50,000 dollars and spend 2 or 3 years getting all the pilot ratings you need. Make sure you have at least a 4-year college degree, and that won’t even get you close to a job on a major airline. Spend another 3- 10 years building the flight time you need by flight instructing, or if you are lucky, working for a commuter airline. Starting pay at these commuter airlines averages 18,000 dollars a year. Not bad for a 50,000 dollar investment and 3 years of your time. Stay as a copilot for 3 years and you will be up to 21,000 a year working 16-hour days.
. Get your facts right before spouting off about how great pilots have it.
You're talking worst case scenario. My ex was military and didn't spend a penny for flight instruction, makes at least twice what normal citizens make, has a convertible BMW, a 50th anniversary corvette, a 4-bedroom home and a swimming pool in the middle, and is putting both our children through college. Do you call that suffering or someone the rest of us should feel worry for because hey, they are finally starting to feel the same pinch all American Citizens are?
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nwapilotwife
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WHere did you come up with your ridiculous statement that pilots make more than most corporate v.p.'s? Do those corporate V.P's miss dinner at night? DO they miss their kids in the morning before school? DO they miss recitals,ball games, birthdays, births.Do they sit at eh office for endless hours a day without getting paid. So corporate V.P.'s show up at 8 and leave at 5 or 6 and what do they only get paid for 3 of those hours. I dont think so. Our pilots as you say may fly 20 hours a week..but what about the hours they sit at airports, the time they sit on the ground..what about the time they spend doing preflights, checking the airplanes etc etc etc..TThe time spent helping passengers ,or when a flight is cancelled and they have to sit at the airport until their next turn..They dont get paid for any of that..Would you go to work for 8 hours a day and get paid for 3. Yeah I dont think so.ANd if you did get paid for 3 of those 8 hours a day only that would be a better ratio than what the pilots get. Came to senses wrote: It is good that pilots came to their senses. They just don't seem to understand how good they have it. They make more than most corporate Vice Presidents, while working 20 hours a week. They make four times the average wages in this country (or 8 times if you consider they work part-time).
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nwa pilot wife
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Frequent Flyer wrote: <quoted text> The flying public does not understand how pilots and flight attendants are compensated. They are only paid when the aircraft doors are closed and the brakes are released. Pay stops when the aircraft arrives at the gate and the brakes are set. Sitting at the airport between flights, pre flight check lists, and boarding of passengers is all done without pay.
Federal air regulations allow them to work 16-hour days with an 8-hour rest. That includes trip to the hotel, which can take up to an hour after the aircraft is parked. Allowing one hour to relax before bed, and get up 2 hours before departure, you can see that 4 hours sleep is about all you will get.
The average duty day lasts over 10 hours, with only five hours of pay. Many pilots and flight attendants work 40-hour weeks with only 20 hours of pay. Some airlines only pay flight time, with no guarantee of any pay while on duty. They could be on duty for 16 hours and only get paid 2 hours, if that was all they had flown that day.
This is one of the reasons pilots and flight attendants are willing to risk their jobs by striking. Most of the major airlines have already taken up to 50% pay cuts. You only have to look at your own finances to see what this means. Many pilots and flight attendants are losing their homes. These are the people that have your lives in their hands.
If you think that flying for a major airline is such a great deal, you can do it to. Take 50,000 dollars and spend 2 or 3 years getting all the pilot ratings you need. Make sure you have at least a 4-year college degree, and that won’t even get you close to a job on a major airline. Spend another 3- 10 years building the flight time you need by flight instructing, or if you are lucky, working for a commuter airline. Starting pay at these commuter airlines averages 18,000 dollars a year. Not bad for a 50,000 dollar investment and 3 years of your time. Stay as a copilot for 3 years and you will be up to 21,000 a year working 16-hour days.
. Get your facts right before spouting off about how great pilots have it.
YEAH!! so well said...i'm making copies for friends who think my husband works part time...because he's home during the day sometimes when they are 'at the office'...they never seem to remember that 'at the office' for a pilot is overnight, several days at a time!
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nwa pilot wife
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AA_737CA_Wife wrote: <quoted text>
You're talking worst case scenario. My ex was military and didn't spend a penny for flight instruction, makes at least twice what normal citizens make, has a convertible BMW, a 50th anniversary corvette, a 4-bedroom home and a swimming pool in the middle, and is putting both our children through college. Do you call that suffering or someone the rest of us should feel worry for because hey, they are finally starting to feel the same pinch all American Citizens are? wow...your ex, huh? I hope those cars and home are paid for...cuz his current (new) pay will no longer cover those payments. And speaking of 'pinch'...I hope you realize your alimony payments will be renegotiated, and what ever percent you were to get from his pension has just evaporated. It doesn't sound like you have much appreciation for what your husband did during his years in the military...maybe his flight training was at 'no cost' to him...financially, that is. But there are great 'costs' and many sacrifices made by those in the military daily, beyond financial ones. maybe you weren't around (or paying attention?) after your husband left the military to persue his commercial career...but even the wonderful training and experience one receives as a military pilot is usually not all that is required of a commercial airline applicant. There are additional ratings to be aquired, which take additional training and cost in the thousands; and if the applicant's logged hours are not all 'command hours', or if he/she is short on the 2,000+ hour requirement, that's more 'air-time' that has to be paid for... I really doubt your ex 'didn't spend a penny' for the instruction required to obtain a position with a major carrier.
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nwa pilot wife
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came to senses wrote: You have a clear misunderstanding of not only what it takes to become a pilot but the life style of a pilot plus the fact that it is mandatory for them to retire at age 60 plus they have to pass a first class medical every six months just to keep their jobs! YEP! well put!
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AA_737CA_Wife
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nwa pilot wife wrote: <quoted text>
wow...your ex, huh?
I hope those cars and home are paid for...cuz his current (new) pay will no longer cover those payments.
And speaking of 'pinch'...I hope you realize your alimony payments will be renegotiated, and what ever percent you were to get from his pension has just evaporated.
It doesn't sound like you have much appreciation for what your husband did during his years in the military...maybe his flight training was at 'no cost' to him...financially, that is. But there are great 'costs' and many sacrifices made by those in the military daily, beyond financial ones.
maybe you weren't around (or paying attention?) after your husband left the military to persue his commercial career...but even the wonderful training and experience one receives as a military pilot is usually not all that is required of a commercial airline applicant. There are additional ratings to be aquired, which take additional training and cost in the thousands; and if the applicant's logged hours are not all 'command hours', or if he/she is short on the 2,000+ hour requirement, that's more 'air-time' that has to be paid for...
I really doubt your ex 'didn't spend a penny' for the instruction required to obtain a position with a major carrier. My EX is a NWA pilot - my current husband is an American Airlines pilot - and just like the others say about you - you're wrong. My hubby graduated from college (criminal justice) and two weeks later was off to Lackland and the Air Force. There were only 8 days between his flight training at AA and the day he left the Air Force - so you tell me Ms. Know It All - what did HE pay for his airline training? Nothing. And also, I didn't ask for alimony because I make just about as much as he did as a VP for American Airlines - and baby, if you think we only work 8-9 hours a day you are once again, sadly off target. Try 10 hour days in the office and conference calls at times until 10pm at night. Not everyone falls into the same category that you seem to think we all do.
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flightmare
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"My EX is a NWA pilot-my current husband is an American Airlines pilot-and my three future husbands will be pilots for Jet Blue, Evergreen, and a tiny airline flying fishermen and hunters to remote villages in Alaska."
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AA_737CA_Wife
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Flightmare I resent the reference you just made to my wife and my marriage. I don't agree with her opinion on labor unions but I do allow her to speak her point of view. You took this personal and in doing so you maligned a fellow pilot. I've asked her to stay away from this message board and anything to do with NWA.
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flightmare
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AA_737CA_Wife wrote: Flightmare I resent the reference you just made to my wife and my marriage. I don't agree with her opinion on labor unions but I do allow her to speak her point of view. You took this personal and in doing so you maligned a fellow pilot. I've asked her to stay away from this message board and anything to do with NWA. We shall soon find out who wears the pants in your family...:)
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Eve
AOL
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Came to senses wrote: It is good that pilots came to their senses. They just don't seem to understand how good they have it. They make more than most corporate Vice Presidents, while working 20 hours a week. They make four times the average wages in this country (or 8 times if you consider they work part-time). PLEASE! Do you have any idea what these pilots go through to achieve sitting in that seat? Besides, as far as I am concerned, they have so many lives in their hands - they deserve every penny. Why not look at what top management gets paid?
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NWARETCAPT
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Tigger from NV wrote: <quoted text>
LMAO....you should talk.....I have a pilots lic and fly and love it. But the prices the airlines charge for a simple trip help make up those out of world salaries the pilots make not to mention all the beni's. Yes I did have the chance to go to work as a pilot for a international airline, and turned them down flat. What to know why ? I take pride in what I do and feel a honest days pay is right for a honest days work. Flying around up there is not a honest days pay. Its so far over rated that it makes ones head spin. The pilots need to get a grip on life and get their heads out of the clouds, the same clouds they have been in for a long time. It's difficult to read something this idiotic! I guess some people just love to say stupid things. You really turned down a job with an internationational carrier on priciple? Did you call them or did they call you?
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flightmare_night mare
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Tigger from NV wrote: <quoted text>
LMAO....you should talk.....I have a pilots lic and fly and love it. But the prices the airlines charge for a simple trip help make up those out of world salaries the pilots make not to mention all the beni's. Yes I did have the chance to go to work as a pilot for a international airline, and turned them down flat. What to know why ? I take pride in what I do and feel a honest days pay is right for a honest days work. Flying around up there is not a honest days pay. Its so far over rated that it makes ones head spin. The pilots need to get a grip on life and get their heads out of the clouds, the same clouds they have been in for a long time. Wow. Maybe you and flightmare should put your heads together and think up other falacies. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone to agree that we don't do an honest day's work in the cockpit. You insult every pilot that died in the 911 attacks and every other pilot that safely gets human beings from one place to another.
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NWARETCAPT
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Just an Observer wrote: What's the matter? Can't anyone out there believe that a person could actually turn down a job once in his life? This is one "pilot" that is definitely a rarity. Can't anyone believe someone can actually have standards? Please, let's have some kind of an open mind here. So, what you are saying is if the interviewer at a job interview offers "too much" for your services, you should catch him/her on it or flat turn down the job to satisfy a "higher standard." Tell that to my plumber. Boy, it's a brave new world.
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Wow
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Why can't we all just get along? I do not really care who is right who is wrong. What I care about is the fact that unions seem to push there way into the mainstream and hike prices on everything by having astronomical wages. I know people are going to have something to say about this but I do not care. Look around see how much you are paying for things day to day. Look at Vehicles, big $$$$= union workers. It seems as though everything that deals with Unions is going up, up, up! It doesn't seem to hurt to have the Unions give a little. Companies have to every day.
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