Being allowed to vote 4 times just shows what a friggen joke those concessionary agreements are. Why did IAC waste everybodies time when they have their minds made up what they are going to with all the new work they are getting. Many other plants voted yes the FIRST time and aren't even get a sniff of work. Greencastle, consider yourselves damn lucky.

What a joke wrote:

Being allowed to vote 4 times just shows what a friggen joke those concessionary agreements are. Why did IAC waste everybodies time when they have their minds made up what they are going to with all the new work they are getting. Many other plants voted yes the FIRST time and aren't even get a sniff of work. Greencastle, consider yourselves damn lucky.

Four votes??? Go tend to your cheese!

Guess what? We are probably going to vote again. Last vote is being contested and is being held illegal under UAW constitution (article 33). I don't know what will happen now but there is a very good lawyer with knowledge of the constitution and bylaws backing the appeal.

We the People wrote:

Guess what? We are probably going to vote again. Last vote is being contested and is being held illegal under UAW constitution (article 33). I don't know what will happen now but there is a very good lawyer with knowledge of the constitution and bylaws backing the appeal.

All lawyers will lead you to believe you have a case and that they know all, but the shitty part of it is they just want your money! All they can do is advise you what to do. The UAW has lawyers too and more of them who are getting paid alot more to take care of the little leagle matters that come up. I bet they already saw this coming long before we did!

We the People wrote:

Guess what? We are probably going to vote again. Last vote is being contested and is being held illegal under UAW constitution (article 33). I don't know what will happen now but there is a very good lawyer with knowledge of the constitution and bylaws backing the appeal.

a very good lawyer you say! You would think a very good lawyer would know that showing up to the union meeting was a waste of time. See all legal matters are directed to regional then international. Just a dog and pony show to get more money from you. But hey ! keep throwing money at the fire. Next time try using coins, they dont burn as fast.

We the People wrote:

Guess what? We are probably going to vote again. Last vote is being contested and is being held illegal under UAW constitution (article 33). I don't know what will happen now but there is a very good lawyer with knowledge of the constitution and bylaws backing the appeal.

we the people aka Jane
Is this VERY GOOD lawyer the same one you used when you got arrested for having weed sent to you via united states postal service. Because if it is the uaw should be very scared !!! just wondering.. did they let you keep that very stylish ankle braclet.

Im a little confused. I am hearing rumors at work that the vote is being appealed. which is fine. it's the members right to do so. But what is confusing me is that the reason is because of the fact we had to many chances to vote on the contract without there being any changes in it. Which is also fine with me if thats what the constitution stats. But to ask for another vote after appealing the last vote for voting to much. isn't that an oxymoron. Also can someone explain to me what acticle 33 stats. I was under the impression that article 33 is only for explaining how someone goes about an appeal or how to file charges. I could be wrong, any information would be greatly appreciated. also how can something being contested also be held illigal. wouldnt being held illigal already mean its past contested and shown to be fact as unconstitutional.

cant fix stupid wrote:

<quoted text>
a very good lawyer you say! You would think a very good lawyer would know that showing up to the union meeting was a waste of time. See all legal matters are directed to regional then international. Just a dog and pony show to get more money from you. But hey ! keep throwing money at the fire. Next time try using coins, they dont burn as fast.

There was no lawyer at the union meeting. So what are you trying to say that going to a union meeting is a waste of time? Actually I find them entertaining. Oh, how I love those finger sandwiches and fruit and vegetable trays. I get to ask all kinds questions and get no answers and I get to vote and vote and vote on DIFFERENT ISSUES. The only problem is if I don't like the results of the majority we don't get to revote. At least not at Union meeting.

we the people.

I see you were on here but didnt answer any of my questions. with all you wrote on here about forfathers and constitution you would think you could answer the question about article 33. but you didn't. Is the reason because you are talking out your azz. Once someone has a legit question you fold up like a cheap chair. Do you even know what article 33 is?

No problem. Yes Article 33 of the Constitution deals with the process of appealing a decision. You can Google it and read for yourself what it is about probably better then I can explain it in its entirety. As far as your other questions we will have to wait until we are given a decision before we know how things will proceed. There could be many different options here, depending on what the decision is. I did not know you were directing the question to me but I tried my best to give you an answer.

so now that we both know art. 33 is just the appeal process. what article of the constitution is the one that states the last vote was in your words (illegal)?( which should be stated unconstitutional ).

Go to youtube and take a quick reference teaching on Roberts Rules and how majority voting works. You just cant keep voting on the same thing after the majority rules not in your favor. There are strict guidelines that have been followed in the past in order to pose a revote. First it has to be addressed by the election chairperson, by the person contesting the majority rule. That person has to be of the majority side and then a secret ballot should be cast by the Election Committee on whether a revote should be allowed. This was not done even for the second vote on the same contract proposal. The petition that went around the plant was the closest it got. Given the second vote, due to misunderstandings of the facts of what was being voted on the majority still ruled against the proposal. There was absolutely no just cause after the majority voted no to have a third vote. In all my research I can not even find a third vote situation without some sort of objective change.

We the people wrote:

Go to youtube and take a quick reference teaching on Roberts Rules and how majority voting works. You just cant keep voting on the same thing after the majority rules not in your favor. There are strict guidelines that have been followed in the past in order to pose a revote. First it has to be addressed by the election chairperson, by the person contesting the majority rule. That person has to be of the majority side and then a secret ballot should be cast by the Election Committee on whether a revote should be allowed. This was not done even for the second vote on the same contract proposal. The petition that went around the plant was the closest it got. Given the second vote, due to misunderstandings of the facts of what was being voted on the majority still ruled against the proposal. There was absolutely no just cause after the majority voted no to have a third vote. In all my research I can not even find a third vote situation without some sort of objective change.

Why are you no voters trying so hard to be unemployed????? If you don't want to work just quit. I will even fill out your change of status for you to make sure it's done right.
I think you ppl(no voters) want the plant to close just so you have someone to blame it on. Stop being cowards and quit already.

The concession vote is over get over it!

So what you are saying is your not fighting the vote count, but instead the vote itself. I have one question...can you prove malice? See the thing you don't seem to understand is that the bargaining comm., election comm., and eboard are not professional, they made up of members trying their best to do whats right. unless you can prove malice, I will find it hard for you to have a majority vote over ruled. The reason why is that you will be punishing the majority of members for doing nothing wrong. all we did was cast our vote. A vote which obviously you don't agree with. And you saying nothing changed, how do you figure that. the vote went from no to a yes. by some 30 votes. also the amount of people who voted changed by over 30 votes. I think your sour because you lost. plain and simple. I will venture to say the reason for the change was some education. I think alot of people was getting confused because of dumb sh!ts like you. this is the facts. there are over 15 million people right now in the united states unemployeed. The one who are fortunate to have jobs are making far less than they did 3 years ago. that is a fact. You talk about all your research and not finding any who voted more than 2 on same contract with no changes. How many contracts did you research? Cause I'm guessing if you researched a thousand contracts you still would have only researched less than a single percent of all the union contracts. And we both know with your attention span that you maybe researched 25 contracts. as far as Angie V is concerned. This is political. She is the single most power hungry person in this union. She will do and say what ever she needs to so she can get back in office. I find it funny she couldn't get elected to one single position this last election but now she is your saviors. If you all believe Angie would be fighting this contract with you if she was in an union office your a bigger moron than you seem when you open you mouth a slur.

We the people wrote:

Go to youtube and take a quick reference teaching on Roberts Rules and how majority voting works. You just cant keep voting on the same thing after the majority rules not in your favor. There are strict guidelines that have been followed in the past in order to pose a revote. First it has to be addressed by the election chairperson, by the person contesting the majority rule. That person has to be of the majority side and then a secret ballot should be cast by the Election Committee on whether a revote should be allowed. This was not done even for the second vote on the same contract proposal. The petition that went around the plant was the closest it got. Given the second vote, due to misunderstandings of the facts of what was being voted on the majority still ruled against the proposal. There was absolutely no just cause after the majority voted no to have a third vote. In all my research I can not even find a third vote situation without some sort of objective change.

OMG!!! Roberts rules of order only apply if a meeting is called to order and a motion is made and somebody seconds it then a vote is taken by show of hands or secret ballot, and then only 2 times if,it is voted on a 3rd time it can not be the same as the 1st two times. I don't recall when I voted that it was during a meeting that had been called to order. So Roberts rules do not apply! I could be wrong but that was my interpretation of what I read. If I am wrong please be kind!

oueight12 wrote:

So what you are saying is your not fighting the vote count, but instead the vote itself. I have one question...can you prove malice? See the thing you don't seem to understand is that the bargaining comm., election comm., and eboard are not professional, they made up of members trying their best to do whats right. unless you can prove malice, I will find it hard for you to have a majority vote over ruled. The reason why is that you will be punishing the majority of members for doing nothing wrong. all we did was cast our vote. A vote which obviously you don't agree with. And you saying nothing changed, how do you figure that. the vote went from no to a yes. by some 30 votes. also the amount of people who voted changed by over 30 votes. I think your sour because you lost. plain and simple. I will venture to say the reason for the change was some education. I think alot of people was getting confused because of dumb sh!ts like you. this is the facts. there are over 15 million people right now in the united states unemployeed. The one who are fortunate to have jobs are making far less than they did 3 years ago. that is a fact. You talk about all your research and not finding any who voted more than 2 on same contract with no changes. How many contracts did you research? Cause I'm guessing if you researched a thousand contracts you still would have only researched less than a single percent of all the union contracts. And we both know with your attention span that you maybe researched 25 contracts. as far as Angie V is concerned. This is political. She is the single most power hungry person in this union. She will do and say what ever she needs to so she can get back in office. I find it funny she couldn't get elected to one single position this last election but now she is your saviors. If you all believe Angie would be fighting this contract with you if she was in an union office your a bigger moron than you seem when you open you mouth a slur.

I don't work at your plant so I don't know the details, but one comment in your post struck a nerve. This is the comment "The one who are fortunate to have jobs are making far less than they did 3 years ago. that is a fact." So my question is, So, that's OK with you? The reason that people are making far less than a few years ago is because too many people are living in FEAR. I reject and will always reject even one single concession. When the price of EVERYTHING else starts coming down I will consider it. But I will not be reduced from upper lower class to lower class without a fight. Like I've said before in other posts, our grandparents would be ashamed of us for not standing up for ourselves. Being afraid of losing a JOB is the cowardly way. Standing up for a decent living wage is true courage. We are the REAL workers in this corporation and we keep getting pissed on. Fear is a powerful weapon, hell it's even the major theme of one of our 2 main political parties. A JOB is a JOB but standing up for yourself is a UNION tradition. If you just want a job, go work at Walmart. If you want to really live the American dream and be part of a strong middle class (which is vital to this country) stand up for yourself and say no to any and all concessions.

oueight12,

First of all I will let you know I was an officer for 11 years, and second of all I did not run for office, so how did any one vote for me? You have to be on the ballot to be voted in to an office, I chose not to run this time due to personal and family life. So before you go saying things like that, that I am power hungry, you need to get your facts straight. Even though I am not an officer I still believe that the union should be fair and equal. I will still fight for what is right.

By the way whats the matter you have to hide behind a screen name, you want to say things like this then be proud to say it and give your name.

I have always been union and have never been ashamed to use my name, so everyone knows it came from me.

1 of 20. do i like making less. are you a complete moron. does anyone like making less? Your post is about the dumbest damn thing i ever read! You sure your not from our plant? So the economy tanking and jobs being shipped over sea's has nothing to do with our current regression of wages. Your an idiot. My grandparents would be proud of the fact I'm willing to take less to keep my family off welfare. We are a proud family and will do what ever it takes for our family to survive. tell me what you suggest ol wise one. lose a $15 job with benefits which allows my family to live comfortably, in exchange for a $6 an hour job with no benefits to prove a point. And what point would I be proving, that im a dumb ass. My grandparents lived through the great depression. and not once have i ever heard them say it wasn't that bad. And you say its a union tradition. then can you explain to me why all of the automotive industry took concessions. Damn a democratic President forced concessions on one of the largest employer's of the united states. A company that everyone thought was bulletproof. You wanna get rich, your in the wrong industry. get an education, learn a viable trade. But manufactory is not going to make you rich. This is the fact, my house isn't being forclosed on, My bills are paid, if someone in my family gets sick, i have insurance. Shit we are even putting in a pool this year. So guess what dumbass, i am living the american dream. If I want more I put in overtime, minimum wage is like 6 bucks an hour, with no benifits. I make 15 an hour with benefits. That 250 percent more than minimum wage without adding the benifits. how am i getting screwed. Sounds like to me, you have an inflated sense of self worth.
But if your not from our plant I understand why you write this trash. Sh!t i would to if I thought a no vote from greencastle would bring more work to wauseon. But the next time you might wanna pick someone that you actually have a chance of matching witts with. your simply out of your league.

angie, explain to me how a majority vote isn't fair and equal. And where was the appeal before the votes were counted. You had ample time to file before the vote. but know, you waited until THE MAJORITY voted different then you. If you really cared about the union you wouldn't try to tell me that my vote doesn't count. I and 266 didn't break your precious roberts rule of order. Shit if we went by those rules your big mouth would actually have to let someone finish talking before you interupted them. tell me last time you went by that roberts rule, oh wait, those rules only count when it favors you. Your self serving and always has been. Do you have knowledge of the union, yes you do! but anyone who has been to black lake 20 times should have some. but see its not the knowledge, its your inability to educate the rest of the local that makes you the joke. you keep it for yourself so that people have to come to you, makes you feel special. Your a backstabber and a liar. So angie, why did you wait until after the ballots was counted to appeal? Just wondering sense your all about fairness and equaility.

Abd as far as ny name goes...you can call me puddin

We cannot be for certain that their were 266 yes votes because election rules were violated and the ballots and paperwork were compromised. This did not come to light until the last membership meeting when it was admitted to by Mike in front of everybody there. In terms of •compromise - A situation in which the secrecy of a private key cannot be relied on, eg if there has been unauthorised access. I do not accept a yes vote until it is done with proper procedures that will prevent any chance of malice. As far as Angie is concerned she has helped many people in this membership and has even had to educate some of our elected officials when they have not had a clue. She has spent countless hours on grievances and has been instrumental in organizing the kids and adult parties for the membership and their families. Were you there to help? I hardly call that selfish.