GM: Building Small Cars In U.S. "A Winner"

Joe wrote:

Lets see them do it, i'm prepared to look.

Awesome!!
GM( Government Motors ) should file chapter 11 and stop stealing hard working tax payers money.

I hope GM falls of the face of the earth.
They should learn how to run a Co. from Ford and Toyota.
Who doesnt steal your tax money or the future kids money.

If Obahma wants to do something right shut GM down

Joe's right, that's the plan. Now if the Americans don't fall for the scam, (your getting your money back.) The put Obama out of business, don't buy his cars. Support the American Ford auto industry.

cobaltsdosuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Awesome!!
I hope GM falls of the face of the earth.
They should learn how to run a Co. from Ford and Toyota.
Who doesnt steal your tax money or the future kids money.
If Obahma wants to do something right shut GM down

Yup, that's good thinking! Tens of thousands more people out of work, plus all the associated support industries, plus dealers. WAIT! if your out of work you're not contributing to the local economy, more jobs lost. And lastly, if you're out of work you're not paying income tax, millions of dollars lost there.

Yup! that's real clever thinking.

MPMARTIN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yup, that's good thinking! Tens of thousands more people out of work, plus all the associated support industries, plus dealers. WAIT! if your out of work you're not contributing to the local economy, more jobs lost. And lastly, if you're out of work you're not paying income tax, millions of dollars lost there.
Yup! that's real clever thinking.

Yes, that is one way to look at it and I honestly understand your point.

However, despite the downside, the American people should be under no obligation to prop up any failing company, whatever they manufacture. Whether it be cars or cartoons, all companies should stand on their own merits. After all, what's next, the American people being held responsible to bail out that junk food giant, McDonalds from going belly up (pun intended).

Remember, there were many many (hundreds, actually) of other automobile manufacturers over the years that we no longer see around. What's different today ?

Anyone seen Pierce-Arrow lately ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce-Arrow

Here's an EXCELLENT article on what companies have evolved into over the years. And perhaps a bit of insight into what they can become if left unchecked.

Well worth reading. Takes about 1-2 minutes.

http://www.nader.org/index.php...

Here's another one:

http://www.nader.org/index.php...

yes it seems to me that it would be better if some companies were wiped off the face of this earth, gm and cyrysler being two of them. gm made the first electric car but they never gave it a chance and destroyed it. now theyre going bankrupt and they deserved it.=P and is crysler bankrupt yet? the gov is fricking wasting millions of dollars on dying car companies. Y WASTE MORE $$? those companies are dead and screwed, anyway. that would leave ford as the only god of car companies in the US.:)

Jim Naseum wrote:

Here's an EXCELLENT article on what companies have evolved into over the years. And perhaps a bit of insight into what they can become if left unchecked.
Well worth reading. Takes about 1-2 minutes.
http://www.nader.org/index.php...

Very interesting article, and it applies to more than just the auto industry. Whether these giant corporations were deliberately miss managed or not is beside the point, they are starting to collapse, and we as a nation can't afford that.

So now we have a President that for the first time in decades has backed these corporations against the wall and said 'Pull your socks up, run your business as it should be and end the corporate greed, or I'll do it for you'

He's doing it with the auto industry, the banking industry, and also the health care industry.

There will of course be some collateral damage, but "no pain-no gain"

I wish him well.

MPMARTIN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yup, that's good thinking! Tens of thousands more people out of work, plus all the associated support industries, plus dealers. WAIT! if your out of work you're not contributing to the local economy, more jobs lost. And lastly, if you're out of work you're not paying income tax, millions of dollars lost there.
Yup! that's real clever thinking.

GM did this to start with paying their people outragous salaries, so why should I feel bad for the people making $80 an hour and getting pentions to live off of.??

If theyre good workers then nothing is stopping them from going to Ford or Toyota , so what they wont make their $80 an hour!!!

GM is been hurting for quite some time and this goes way back to the 80's when they make cars that nobody want and same goes for today.

I owned a cobalt ss/sc (06) and ive owned many chevys in my time ( I was a chevy man to be honest and was happy to see a tuner car from them ) but my 06 was the worst car I EVER OWNED in a 2 year span!!!

And after that I gain more respect for Ford which didnt need a bail out ( OUR TAX MONEY )and VERY happy with my 99 Mustang GT.

So each their own but I think I make some good points.
So IMO (Government Motors ) or GM should just die on.( But leave Corvettes alone , Who knows maybe it will be called Ford Corvette)

Another lost Chevy man No More Bowties For Me

calco wrote:

yes it seems to me that it would be better if some companies were wiped off the face of this earth, gm and cyrysler being two of them. gm made the first electric car but they never gave it a chance and destroyed it. now theyre going bankrupt and they deserved it.=P and is crysler bankrupt yet? the gov is fricking wasting millions of dollars on dying car companies. Y WASTE MORE $$? those companies are dead and screwed, anyway. that would leave ford as the only god of car companies in the US.:)

Great point :)
I would be happy with just Ford left for American Co.
Hey they have been around longer than GM

MPMARTIN wrote:

<quoted text>
Very interesting article, and it applies to more than just the auto industry. Whether these giant corporations were deliberately miss managed or not is beside the point, they are starting to collapse, and we as a nation can't afford that.
So now we have a President that for the first time in decades has backed these corporations against the wall and said 'Pull your socks up, run your business as it should be and end the corporate greed, or I'll do it for you'
He's doing it with the auto industry, the banking industry, and also the health care industry.
There will of course be some collateral damage, but "no pain-no gain"
I wish him well.

Know what ? we all have our own veiws on this, that I agree.

But WHY should the people who work hard pay taxes bail GM's @ss out ??
if we have a small bussiness and it went under would we get a bail out of Trillions of tax payers money?

NO WAY !!!

Not the little guy.
But the big guys like GM can??

Can you answer those question honestly?
No offense :)

cobaltsdosuck wrote:

<quoted text>
GM did this to start with paying their people outragous salaries, so why should I feel bad for the people making $80 an hour and getting pentions to live off of.??
If theyre good workers then nothing is stopping them from going to Ford or Toyota , so what they wont make their $80 an hour!!!
GM is been hurting for quite some time and this goes way back to the 80's when they make cars that nobody want and same goes for today.
I owned a cobalt ss/sc (06) and ive owned many chevys in my time ( I was a chevy man to be honest and was happy to see a tuner car from them ) but my 06 was the worst car I EVER OWNED in a 2 year span!!!
And after that I gain more respect for Ford which didnt need a bail out ( OUR TAX MONEY )and VERY happy with my 99 Mustang GT.
So each their own but I think I make some good points.
So IMO (Government Motors ) or GM should just die on.( But leave Corvettes alone , Who knows maybe it will be called Ford Corvette)
Another lost Chevy man No More Bowties For Me

Yes, you have made a few good points, however the UAW must accept a lions share of responsibility for this current mess. When you sit down to "bargain?" with a laundry list of demands or we'll shut you down, what's a company to do?

True, there have been marketing failures by all auto makers, as well as design failures, but I feel labor costs have finaly taken their toll.

BTW, if? Obama and his crew are successful at pulling this off, the next target I see on the horizon is the petroleum industry.

cobaltsdosuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Know what ? we all have our own veiws on this, that I agree.
But WHY should the people who work hard pay taxes bail GM's @ss out ??
if we have a small bussiness and it went under would we get a bail out of Trillions of tax payers money?
NO WAY !!!
Not the little guy.
But the big guys like GM can??
Can you answer those question honestly?
No offense :)

No offense taken. Yes, small businesses have been victims here as well, and they have been growing and dying forever, it's one of the perils of free commerce. But small businesses are just a tiny microcosm of the overall economic picture.

When a giant like GM or Chrysler is on the verge of collapse the consequences are far reaching beyond comprehension.

I hate to think of the term "nationalization", but if labor and management can't come together and start working for the United States, then maybe somebody will have to step up and do it for them.

cobaltsdosuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Know what ? we all have our own veiws on this, that I agree.
But WHY should the people who work hard pay taxes bail GM's @ss out ??
if we have a small bussiness and it went under would we get a bail out of Trillions of tax payers money?
NO WAY !!!
Not the little guy.
But the big guys like GM can??
Can you answer those question honestly?
No offense :)

It's not a small business,and Nobody came anywhere near a trillion on the car companies,not even a tenth of that.That was the banks and Insurance companies,and a lot of that went to pay their bonuses and party expenses.

GM is not a private company.Chrysler was,sort of,but they were owned by an investment group.So it isn't like we are paying Mr Motors and his family,we are supporting a business on which the United States depends,and wages on which the United States depends,whether you like it or not.
In the case of GM and Chrysler,you not only have tens of thousands of well paying jobs,you also have several million jobs at those companies vendors,like my job making tools for the auto companies,and all the restaurants,bowling alleys,barbers,etc that make their money catering to the people whose money you want to take away.Chrysler and GM go bankrupt,our company might get 10% of what we are owed.Lots of places can't absorb that loss.Car companies go out of business,so do tens of thousands of small businesses.Thousands of small businesses have already gone under.Take a ride around Metro Detroit sometime,which is just one of hundreds of cities relying on those companies .Everyone bitching about the government stepping into this can kiss my butt.This is a national emergency.Your taxes aren't squat compared to what the auto workers and the rest of us are paying,and every one of us still working is paying taxes and probably entirely supporting the project ourselves.You personally would lose many times more if these companies went down than what it is costing you in taxes,I'm sure of that.Everyone would.

MPMARTIN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, you have made a few good points, however the UAW must accept a lions share of responsibility for this current mess. When you sit down to "bargain?" with a laundry list of demands or we'll shut you down, what's a company to do?
True, there have been marketing failures by all auto makers, as well as design failures, but I feel labor costs have finaly taken their toll.
BTW, if? Obama and his crew are successful at pulling this off, the next target I see on the horizon is the petroleum industry.

There you go again blaming the workers without the first clue what you are talking about just because it bothers you to think Americans deserve to support their families.Jackass.

MPMARTIN wrote:

<quoted text>
Yup, that's good thinking! Tens of thousands more people out of work, plus all the associated support industries, plus dealers. WAIT! if your out of work you're not contributing to the local economy, more jobs lost. And lastly, if you're out of work you're not paying income tax, millions of dollars lost there.
Yup! that's real clever thinking.

MP you need to catch up, GM and all it's friends are out of work already they just haven't received their memo yet.

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
It will pay out fine, government bailouts work fine in supplier driven industries, the bonds and preferred share payout for the Chrysler bailout came in ahead of schedule with a nice profit. Supplier bailouts are usually successful because they have real assets that are exchanging hands.
Banking bailouts are more complex and generally don't succeed profitably, such as the Reagan-era Savings and Loan Bailout. They never made a profit. But, ultimately, Bush saw that a failed credit market would ultimately start causing a panic (which we saw when the money market funds were beginning to implode).

Hey Joe for some reason I must be missing something. Bond holders don't seem to be to happy. Does that mean they got all their money. And then you have the stock holders did they get their money? Then the banks and private lenders are going to settle for stock worth very little, does that mean you think they will make money in the long run? I don't think I would make that bet. Besides Obama said the tax payer will not get paid back on 13 billion already.

Joe wrote:

Lets see them do it, i'm prepared to look.

GM's built small cars before.
Isn't Ralph Nader still driving his Corvair?

With the help of Congress now, GM(Government Motors) will get real small!
Just look at what Obama's help has done to GM's stock!
He ransacked a $6.95 per share stock and obliterated it into .75cents.
At least Obama's consistent.

Ford, the only non-nationalized U.S.Automaker, has a Fusion Hybrid getting an amazing 41MPG!!
Highest in the industry for a mid-size.
That Fiesta coming out is economic, safe and sharp.
Henry would be proud of Alan Mulally.
Keeping capitalism alive for our childrens future.

IDi, I couldn't have said it better myself. Go Ford! All Americans should support Ford for not taking tax payer money. Plus their cars are rated higher then honda and equal with toy.

My family has always owned American Cars. My wife owned a Honda when I met her but she changed and started buying American. But here is the truth. American cars always end up at the shop and they cost way to much money to run. My truck which is a 2001 Dodge Ram gets 10mpg. I mean that is sick. From this day forward I am going to start buying Toyota or Honda. Americans just can't build the cars they once did. Cars today are crap. And GM just isn't the company it once was.