Editorial: Community celebration overdue for the square

Dick Bloom wrote:

How about not dropping but RAISING a KITE and lighting it at the stroke of midnight?

This is a good idea - but why on the square? Why not at Memorial Park where there is more room to move around and parking and things like that. I don't mind downtown, I understand that is where the focus is meant to be, but parking and safe walking would be a nightmare.

nashim wrote:

<quoted text>
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Thank you for clearing up some of my misconceptions, which I have to say were taken from the PO discussions and articles.

But you know what, you're wrong. You're wrong to suggest that this group went about this diplomatically when you know FULL WELL that this would have turned into what it is. A giant, anti-atheist extravaganza. Religious symbols don't belong on public property in my opinion, but what am I going to do? Because the scorn of everyone in Franklin County? No thanks, I'll leave that you guys.

And I also argue that your group was more than aware that the council would not be cool with an atheist sign and the whole thing would blow in to your advantage.

I'm happy to be a nonbeliever, but I don't need to belong to some bullying group to get my point across. Put up your billboards and make your social statement... but when you go after communities like this and threaten lawsuits it just makes EVERYONE HATE YOU.

I think you should probably reconsider your strategy.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know about you, but reading the editorials in this paper it seems that every, single letter to the editor even now, with the whole thing behind us, is a Christian just being angry that they have to share their country with non-Christians and nonbelievers. There's really no substance, just anger.
It seems like it is folks like you who are more interested in fighting this whole "culture war." Yeah, there are groups out there that are going to upset you and push the limits of the constitution. Getting angry about it means they win. Always. Why don't you just calm down, enjoy the rest of your holiday and stop being so angry. Because no matter what any group does to move a religious symbol 50 feet away from public property to a church, it doesn't change a damn thing for you.

Oh yea of little or no faith, pitty on you. So sad you have all that hatred built up in you. So sad!

In Reisterstown everybody just went in to Baltimore and in to the clubs. But there is a big crowd at Inner Harbor, usually no trouble, and other junk going on all over town.
Here would be a neat idea for a small town. I moved here a few weeks ago so I guess I am a outsider, but we could make a Giant "Chambersburger" big enough to challenge the book of records. And compete to be champions year after year. Great PR op for the town,
And the best part would be everybody eating it,
in Town Center, and enjoy the fellowship, refreshments, and celebrate.
All we would need is a giant grill to cook. Not that difficult. It also could be steamed to wellness and after-charred with a fat free oil
and small torches. Just a idea from a ex-city boy.

Warp5 Scotty wrote:

I moved here a few weeks ago so I guess I am a outsider, but we could make a Giant "Chambersburger" big enough to challenge the book of records. And compete to be champions year after year. Great PR op for the town,
And the best part would be everybody eating it,
in Town Center, and enjoy the fellowship, refreshments, and celebrate.
All we would need is a giant grill to cook. Not that difficult. It also could be steamed to wellness and after-charred with a fat free oil
and small torches. Just a idea from a ex-city boy.

I ~.*~.love.~*.~ this idea! You should start networking and make this happen next year.

Warp5 Scotty wrote:

In Reisterstown everybody just went in to Baltimore and in to the clubs. But there is a big crowd at Inner Harbor, usually no trouble, and other junk going on all over town.
Here would be a neat idea for a small town. I moved here a few weeks ago so I guess I am a outsider, but we could make a Giant "Chambersburger" big enough to challenge the book of records. And compete to be champions year after year. Great PR op for the town,
And the best part would be everybody eating it,
in Town Center, and enjoy the fellowship, refreshments, and celebrate.
All we would need is a giant grill to cook. Not that difficult. It also could be steamed to wellness and after-charred with a fat free oil
and small torches. Just a idea from a ex-city boy.

Welcome to Pennsylbama. You have a really great idea, I tried it 12 years ago and the locals thought I was NUTZ. If you ain't 5 generations and inbred, you don't count around here. Go back to Fells Point. It's alot neater there.

Tex wrote:

<quoted text>Welcome to Pennsylbama. You have a really great idea, I tried it 12 years ago and the locals thought I was NUTZ. If you ain't 5 generations and inbred, you don't count around here. Go back to Fells Point. It's alot neater there.

I never understood why people are proud to advertise 5 generations in the same picture in the PO. If the oldest is 75, the average age for giving birth is 15. If the oldest is 80 it goes all the way to 16. Why advertise??

Solution wrote:

<quoted text>
Do Not reply to this serial poster. In other words: Do Not Feed The Trolls/DNFTT.The guy doesn't get out of his pajamas or come up out of mom's basement too often.

I just noticed this.

FYI, I've been out of my mom's basement for years. Those days are behind me.

Lately though, I've been working on getting out of my PJs though. The only thing that's changed, this week anyway, is that I'm in my mom's living room...not her basement.

Tex wrote:

<quoted text>. You have a really great idea, I tried it 12 years ago and the locals thought I was NUTZ.

Those folks may have expired; stagnant gene pool. It's worth giving it another go.

Interested Observer wrote:

Someone would need to contact Carl Silverman to obtain a list of acceptable activities. We wouldn't want to embark upon a program that didn't meet his criteria.

Screw him.

The criteria for this event is very simple.

1) Food stands
2) Beer vendors
3) police on horseback prepared to run off all of the following: A) Crack dealing thugs, B) Illegal aliens who are already wasted, C) Dumb hicks who are chewing tobacco and making a nuisance of themselves.

What a great experience it would be. The group of Chambersburg citizens who are genuinely decent people enjoying an elk burger or a cheese steak and a cold beer while discussing good times.

Tex wrote:

<quoted text>Welcome to Pennsylbama. You have a really great idea, I tried it 12 years ago and the locals thought I was NUTZ. If you ain't 5 generations and inbred, you don't count around here. Go back to Fells Point. It's alot neater there.

Thank you, and no, thank you. I love the mountains and well I am here now so here I will be.

Darn it! I used to have a real nice chamberpot I bought at that auction house off behind Broad Street when I was a kid. I didnt know what it was at the time. I put flowers in it.
If I still had it I would gladly donate it to the cause.

Please tell me that we can come up with something a little more classier than a giant cheeseburger??? I like the idea of fire works and vendors , but we still need something to represent this county. Perhaps on of Ben's numerous inventions....

You people are too damn funny! Ha Ha Ha.

I'd like to add to Effington's list of items to drop:
1. A scale model of the Butcher Shoppe.
2. A giant, 1,000 pound, Taco.
3. An easel and oil paints.
4. A huge trout.
5. A pothole.
6. The Marble Building and most of it's occupants.
7. A gigantic, 500 pound, diamond.
8. A PenDot snow plow.
9. A Fulton County pick up truck (with gun rack).
10.A huge balloon of the Old Jail.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you for clearing up some of my misconceptions, which I have to say were taken from the PO discussions and articles.
But you know what, you're wrong. You're wrong to suggest that this group went about this diplomatically when you know FULL WELL that this would have turned into what it is. A giant, anti-atheist extravaganza. Religious symbols don't belong on public property in my opinion, but what am I going to do? Because the scorn of everyone in Franklin County? No thanks, I'll leave that you guys.
And I also argue that your group was more than aware that the council would not be cool with an atheist sign and the whole thing would blow in to your advantage.
I'm happy to be a nonbeliever, but I don't need to belong to some bullying group to get my point across. Put up your billboards and make your social statement... but when you go after communities like this and threaten lawsuits it just makes EVERYONE HATE YOU.
I think you should probably reconsider your strategy.

LOL! Look at you Effington - speaking to fellow nonbelievers the same way I speak to my fellow Christians here. The reactionary ones make us all look bad and weaken the cause, don't they?

Mr AnonyMouse wrote:

<quoted text>
LOL! Look at you Effington - speaking to fellow nonbelievers the same way I speak to my fellow Christians here. The reactionary ones make us all look bad and weaken the cause, don't they?

People truly are uncomfortable with those who question and criticize their own. It's a difficult concept for most folks here, who pride themselves in falling in line and unrelentingly pushing a common ideology no matter how much information surfaces to discredit them.

I sure hope this whole creche nonsense is behind us. Just keep the damn thing at the church and everyone can be happy.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>Thank you for clearing up some of my misconceptions, which I have to say were taken from the PO discussions and articles.
But you know what, you're wrong. You're wrong to suggest that this group went about this diplomatically when you know FULL WELL that this would have turned into what it is. A giant, anti-atheist extravaganza.

Well, it didn't have to be as giant as it was. The Council could have simply approved the atheist display and explained to the press that their policy had created a public forum and they couldn't discriminate against the atheists. I think most people would have understood that, but there are always some idiots out there that don't understand free speech.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>
Religious symbols don't belong on public property in my opinion, but what am I going to do?

*You* may think that religious symbols don't belong on public property, but the Supreme Court allows them, IF they are privately owned and maintained, and IF the municipality has allowed ANY private speech at the venue. So...."what can you do"?? PUT UP YOUR OWN SIGN. More speech is better than no speech.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>Because the scorn of everyone in Franklin County? No thanks, I'll leave that you guys.

If you don't exercise your rights, you will lose them.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>
And I also argue that your group was more than aware that the council would not be cool with an atheist sign and the whole thing would blow in to your advantage.

Not really. One would think that Council would have thought this through a bit more.

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>I'm happy to be a nonbeliever, but I don't need to belong to some bullying group to get my point across. Put up your billboards and make your social statement... but when you go after communities like this and threaten lawsuits it just makes EVERYONE HATE YOU.

This isn't a popularity contest. It's a matter of civil rights and of the constitutional principle of free speech. Why should an atheist group have to spend big bucks for a billboard, when a Christian group (as well as other groups) gets use of prime public real estate for free?

Effington wrote:

<quoted text>I think you should probably reconsider your strategy.

Again, the atheist group wouldn't have pursued this if it hadn't been for some Chambersburg locals raising the issue. If citizens from other areas bring those areas to the group's attention, chances are the group will take up their cause--although it's better if a homegrown individual or group takes the lead, like in Wilkes-Barre recently.

I have to agree with eff on this subject.
I don't believe in the sky-daddy, but I don't feel threatened by the believers in any way shape or form. I don't feel any need to protest against something I don't believe in. If these locals want to believe, then let them live out their fairy tales. It doesn't bother me a bit. I feel no need to advertise that I don't believe.
Carl Silverman stated early on that the "Atheist Veteran" sign was only a ploy. He was not out to 'honor the Veterans', he was just looking for a way to stir his pot. I think this is the only way Carl gets any of the attention that he seems to crave so much. Sorry about his luck. What a sad life he must have.

I agree wrote:

I have to agree with eff on this subject.
I don't believe in the sky-daddy, but I don't feel threatened by the believers in any way shape or form. I don't feel any need to protest against something I don't believe in.

When did the atheists "protest" the nativity? I listened to the tape of the Council meeting, and Silverman did not protest the nativity. He only protested the REMOVAL of the nativity and the denial of the solstice thing. He emphasized that it was a public forum for free speech---at least until he arrived.

I agree wrote:

If these locals want to believe, then let them live out their fairy tales. It doesn't bother me a bit. I feel no need to advertise that I don't believe.

That plays right into their hands, and their claim that atheists are almost nonexistent in Central PA, and should therefore be ignored. The reason why it seems that way is because there are so many in the closet.

I agree wrote:

Carl Silverman stated early on that the "Atheist Veteran" sign was only a ploy. He was not out to 'honor the Veterans', he was just looking for a way to stir his pot.

Didn't you see their video? He explained that they wanted to do something for veterans for a long time, and the Borough policy said that the solstice thing would have to have some tie-in to the war memorial. That's not a ploy if the Borough policy demanded it. Maybe you should ask why only the nativity did not need to be related to a war memorial.
Looks like the Christians got special privileges that nobody else got.

I agree wrote:

I think this is the only way Carl gets any of the attention that he seems to crave so much. Sorry about his luck. What a sad life he must have.

You either aren't an atheist, or you have a spouse who isn't, or you own a business and remain deep in the closet.

BTW, didn't the Christians crave attention too? Why aren't you criticizing them too? Some atheist you are.