American Axle workers: Deal to end strike likely will pass

JIMMYK wrote:

<quoted text>
Put who out of business??? The workers yes the company no. Where have you been the last 3 months?? AAM is not going away with plants in Mexico and the UK they will just move the work. Why do you think the union was backed into a corner on this. They had to make the deal to save 2 of the plants from being shut down. If they would of pushed it AAM would of shut the plants down and moved.

And one has to wonder if GM hadn't infused AAM with $200Million what would have happened.

With the Republicon administrations since Reagan and especially with this Bush, and yes as well as Clinton, the labor laws in this country, that cover union as well as non-union, have been neutered.

If one has learned anything from history it's this same type of situation and attitudes that resulted in an armed revolution...called the American Revolution.

Incorrect again. History always repeats itself, only the names change because people (in general) are too stupid to learn from it.
"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler

Look, I have never said Clinton was a great or even good President. He was just a right wing Democrat. He did leave office with a balanced budget in place with a economic surplus. I remember during his administration when it was all over the news that business was whining crocodile tears because there were more jobs available than people to fill them. Thusly business actually having to pay people what they were worth because labor, ALL labor not just factory workers, demand actually exceeded supply. It didn't take Bush long to rectify that. Also, when Clinton lied no body died.

And where you get that Clinton somehow forced the sub-prime lending onto these poor helpless conservative banking institutions is beyond all rationality. I went through the last lending fiasco like this that Neil Bush, George W. Bushes brother and other son of George H.W. Bush, started called the S&L crisis.

I would never say Clinton reached the level of a great president. Compared to Bush though Clinton was god.

I have at least looked at all sides of this argument for a very long time and I will always come down on the side that people working and making livable wages and benefits outweighs some lofty idealism of well Freidman's book says...so that's just the way it's supposed to work. Yes economies are cyclical. They're cyclical because someone always has a better idea they sell a book on that is disastrous to the majority that have to live within them.
"There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else." - Andrew Carnegie.

As far a tariffs are concerned the only way to play this game the way it should be played is to level the field with equalized tariffing. We don't have high tariffs to be keeping. We are the ones who are giving everyone else the free ride...tariff wise. So that's simply a invalid argument on your part.

I don't suppose you've taken the time to read the books I'd suggested; Free Lunch by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, or Unequal Protection and Screwed by Thom Hartmann. Or even Crunchy Cons by Rod Dreher. Probably not because that would be a venture outside the union busting and pro mega corporation mindset. You know, you wouldn't have to buy them. Though you would have to step into the unholy venue of socialistic libraries.
"He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave." - Andrew Carnegie
Oh never mind. It's clear to this point you have no desire to gather both sides of this argument. It's all gotta be Carl Rove style...keep repeating the same thing over and over and over and over, and pretty soon people will just start to believe it.

Jeffrey wrote:

<quoted text> What does a fair wage have to do with wanting to work? Is your wage fair? Do you want more money? If they give you a raise do you refuse because you feel you are at a fair wage? Have you put a screw in a hole thousands of times a day? Day after day? Uneducated job maybe unskilled I think not. No matter what your job you must have the skills. By theory you should not allow the minimum wage to rise because this would be more money for most unskilled workers. Will that help? A fast food resteraunt paying the minimum wage? How absurd, it's just flipping burgers. Your analytical thought process is skewed. Let's be rhetoric. How about we all make 10 dollars an hour. Let's say all businesses will say wow I have to lower my prices because everyone must be able to buy my product. I highly doubt it. You are in business to make a profit not to just sustain yourself. I would like to make a profit too.

Re-read what you wrote. If everyone was making the same wage the price of products would adjust to fit that. If the company did not lower prices no one would be able to afford it because they are all making the same wage!! The company would have no sales. You took a very simplistic view of economics and still got it wrong. The great thing about this country is that we have 3 classes of people poor, middle, and upper. Unlike some places that only have 2. This country provides multiple opportunities for people to better themselves and move up through the ladder. The problem is you are not going to move up working a production job. It is that simple. This nation is leaving the manufacturing revolution, that phase of our history is past. The good thing is we are seeing more and more upper level educated jobs in the US.

JIMMYK wrote:

<quoted text>
Re-read what you wrote. If everyone was making the same wage the price of products would adjust to fit that. If the company did not lower prices no one would be able to afford it because they are all making the same wage!! The company would have no sales. You took a very simplistic view of economics and still got it wrong. The great thing about this country is that we have 3 classes of people poor, middle, and upper. Unlike some places that only have 2. This country provides multiple opportunities for people to better themselves and move up through the ladder. The problem is you are not going to move up working a production job. It is that simple. This nation is leaving the manufacturing revolution, that phase of our history is past. The good thing is we are seeing more and more upper level educated jobs in the US.

to say that the great thing about this country is that we have three classes is totally absurd we don't need or want three classes.

I disagree that "The great thing about this country is that we have 3 classes of people poor, middle, and upper." I would say more to the point, it is a great thing in this country that there is a middle class and the rest of the world followed in our example because that is, and soon to be was, a good thing for the country as a whole.

What's so tragically laughable about that is those other countries have recognized the value in the middle class and set it up so it doesn't dissolve. While this country strives to eliminate it.

There wasn't always a middle class in this country. It was because of President Franklin D. Roosevelt this country developed a middle class and it was unionization that fulfilled that. Roosevelt believed in the vision of Thomas Paine's for this new country;
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance not distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want; the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of it's happiness: when these things can be said, then may that country boast it's constitution and government."

Beginning with Reagan that creation of the middle class began it's decline. "Yes there is a class war going on and my side is winning" - Warren Buffet". Even Rush Limpjaw says, "Roosevelt is dead but his legacy lives on, and we are doing something about that too."

And lest we forget Franklin D. Roosevelt came from the very rich and influential and was reviled by his "class" for "turning" on them.

Inflation is an imaginary concept put to practice. We can look in all the economics books there are and quoth it as gospel. That doesn't mean it's not a creation of the mind put to practice. Alice in Wonderland is in a book too. Does that make the story reality? It's the belief that there HAS TO BE something(s) and someone(s) of more value than others. The belief there HAS TO BE the rich and there HAS TO BE the poor. But in a country such as this one when poor means there are starving and homeless people and children, that is UNFORGIVABLE. And those who believe in it are UNFORGIVABLE.

I also disagree with your statement that with everyone making the same wage there would be no sales. Sales are based on what people need and what they want that they can not and/or do not produce for themselves and can afford to purchase from someone else. As long as people can not and/or do not produce all they need and/or want for themselves, there will always be sales of whatever those products are. Likely what it means is there will be no huge profit gains to be made.

Is there any chance of everyone making the same wage? No! Not chance. And make no mistake about it, there is a real move to get the U.S. back to the 2 class system.

What is wrong with people being able to afford to purchase what they need and some of what they want? Nothing as I see it. How could it possibly be bad for business if they had a constant flow of sales of their products based on people being able to afford to purchase them. A great deal (wrong) as others do. Some can not feel successful to even superior in life if they aren't doing or believing they are better to whatever degree than others.

Seenitbefore wrote:

Incorrect again. History always repeats itself, only the names change because people (in general) are too stupid to learn from it.
"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler
Look, I have never said Clinton was a great or even good President. He was just a right wing Democrat. He did leave office with a balanced budget in place with a economic surplus. I remember during his administration when it was all over the news that business was whining crocodile tears because there were more jobs available than people to fill them. Thusly business actually having to pay people what they were worth because labor, ALL labor not just factory workers, demand actually exceeded supply. It didn't take Bush long to rectify that. Also, when Clinton lied no body died.
And where you get that Clinton somehow forced the sub-prime lending onto these poor helpless conservative banking institutions is beyond all rationality. I went through the last lending fiasco like this that Neil Bush, George W. Bushes brother and other son of George H.W. Bush, started called the S&L crisis.
I would never say Clinton reached the level of a great president. Compared to Bush though Clinton was god.
I have at least looked at all sides of this argument for a very long time and I will always come down on the side that people working and making livable wages and benefits outweighs some lofty idealism of well Freidman's book says...so that's just the way it's supposed to work. Yes economies are cyclical. They're cyclical because someone always has a better idea they sell a book on that is disastrous to the majority that have to live within them.
"There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else." - Andrew Carnegie.
As far a tariffs are concerned the only way to play this game the way it should be played is to level the field with equalized tariffing. We don't have high tariffs to be keeping. We are the ones who are giving everyone else the free ride...tariff wise. So that's simply a invalid argument on your part.
I don't suppose you've taken the time to read the books I'd suggested; Free Lunch by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, or Unequal Protection and Screwed by Thom Hartmann. Or even Crunchy Cons by Rod Dreher. Probably not because that would be a venture outside the union busting and pro mega corporation mindset. You know, you wouldn't have to buy them. Though you would have to step into the unholy venue of socialistic libraries.
"He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave." - Andrew Carnegie
Oh never mind. It's clear to this point you have no desire to gather both sides of this argument. It's all gotta be Carl Rove style...keep repeating the same thing over and over and over and over, and pretty soon people will just start to believe it.

READ THE POST AGAIN. The point was that history repeats itself, I was being sarcastic. Wow a bunch of advise taken from some liberals, is that all you got? I don't suppose you have taken the time to learn economics, Just how far left are you?

Seenitbefore wrote:

I disagree that "The great thing about this country is that we have 3 classes of people poor, middle, and upper." I would say more to the point, it is a great thing in this country that there is a middle class and the rest of the world followed in our example because that is, and soon to be was, a good thing for the country as a whole.
What's so tragically laughable about that is those other countries have recognized the value in the middle class and set it up so it doesn't dissolve. While this country strives to eliminate it.
There wasn't always a middle class in this country. It was because of President Franklin D. Roosevelt this country developed a middle class and it was unionization that fulfilled that. Roosevelt believed in the vision of Thomas Paine's for this new country;
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance not distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want; the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of it's happiness: when these things can be said, then may that country boast it's constitution and government."
Beginning with Reagan that creation of the middle class began it's decline. "Yes there is a class war going on and my side is winning" - Warren Buffet". Even Rush Limpjaw says, "Roosevelt is dead but his legacy lives on, and we are doing something about that too."
And lest we forget Franklin D. Roosevelt came from the very rich and influential and was reviled by his "class" for "turning" on them.
Inflation is an imaginary concept put to practice. We can look in all the economics books there are and quoth it as gospel. That doesn't mean it's not a creation of the mind put to practice. Alice in Wonderland is in a book too. Does that make the story reality? It's the belief that there HAS TO BE something(s) and someone(s) of more value than others. The belief there HAS TO BE the rich and there HAS TO BE the poor. But in a country such as this one when poor means there are starving and homeless people and children, that is UNFORGIVABLE. And those who believe in it are UNFORGIVABLE.
I also disagree with your statement that with everyone making the same wage there would be no sales. Sales are based on what people need and what they want that they can not and/or do not produce for themselves and can afford to purchase from someone else. As long as people can not and/or do not produce all they need and/or want for themselves, there will always be sales of whatever those products are. Likely what it means is there will be no huge profit gains to be made.
Is there any chance of everyone making the same wage? No! Not chance. And make no mistake about it, there is a real move to get the U.S. back to the 2 class system.
What is wrong with people being able to afford to purchase what they need and some of what they want? Nothing as I see it. How could it possibly be bad for business if they had a constant flow of sales of their products based on people being able to afford to purchase them. A great deal (wrong) as others do. Some can not feel successful to even superior in life if they aren't doing or believing they are better to whatever degree than others.

More mindless information with no data to back it up.

Chip wrote:

<quoted text>
READ THE POST AGAIN. The point was that history repeats itself, I was being sarcastic. Wow a bunch of advise taken from some liberals, is that all you got? I don't suppose you have taken the time to learn economics, Just how far left are you?

Not near as far left as you are to the right. You don't see me trying to "exterminate" and entire class of people just to satisfy my ego.

Take away those "unskilled" workers the way you want and I'd love to be around to hear you whining because you could no longer survive. Eat a book.

I operate from a real world perspective and not just waddle along behind some books author.