LDS have big image problem

Nov 23, 2008 Full story: Deseret Morning News 194

Gary Lawrence is a card-carrying, tithe-paying, churchgoing Mormon who had long suspected that the public perception of his church in America wasn't exactly up there with, say, baseball and apple pie.

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Grandpasmurf952

Kelseyville, CA

#1 Dec 6, 2008
It's easy to see why the Mormons have an image problem.
There is a wealth of documentation to show the violent history of the Mormon Church.
I have posted several websites that were created by people who spent a lot of time tracking down facts, when I posted the information (cut and pasted) or simply gave the url of the website, I was promptly attacked and called a liar even though I made no statements of my own that could be construed as anything but opinions.
Hate and lies by the mormons do nothing but diminish any credibility that they might have.

I have yet to see anything but defense of the Mountain Meadow Massacre! Why one poster actually tried to justify it, claiming they deserved it for what happened in Mo.

I urge everyone to research this group, I think if you just restrict your search to their own writings you will clearly see where they are comming from !
nothing but the truth

Kelseyville, CA

#2 Dec 6, 2008
One thing to think about. Mormon, JW and Evangelical churches have a set of fears and coersions not always understood by others. Their families,friends and church members would/will excommunicate,shun,disfellowsh ip them if they actually changed their minds. Therefore,to argue with them really is fruitless (not that it stops me LOL),but they have a vested interest in maintaining the belief system they have. They can't "afford" in their minds to lose that-their families and friends with the church leaders instruction and blessing will no longer speak,eat or include them in family functions FOREVER.They will not be welcome in church unless they "repent" Mormons also believe in blood atonement for sins not accepted by church as forgivable.Even if repented-they will have to earn back the "trust" as an obedient member which may never be fully accepted. I've SEEN this happen more than once.It is not something they warn newcomers about because of the obvious.
there-it-is

Kelseyville, CA

#3 Dec 6, 2008
Grandpasmurf-The "Jesus Christ" part of their name is just a "lost leader". They won't be able to recognize the Christian standards because Jesus has a backseat to Joseph Smith and his ilk.
Grandpasmurf952

Kelseyville, CA

#4 Dec 7, 2008
Here is a little more information to help clarify the image of the Mormon Church.
The passage of proposition 8 in California is a setback for civil rights, but the positive side is that it is waking people up to the
very real threat of a theocracy run by fundamentalist wackos that would make the taliban look like a sewing circle!
Until the defeat of prop 8, I knew nothing about the Mormons except the knowledge that their sacred book was in part
copied from the King James including the typos ! I found this out opening the book at random and recognizing the
passages. I quickly dismissed the mormons as an obvious fraud and didn't think about the mormons untill it occured to me
that something suspicious was happening, with their feverish pushing to get prop 8 passed. I did some investigation on
my own and quickly uncovered their theodemocracy plot. There is enough information out there to clearly show that this
group is a dangerous political group. Attacking the gays was much like Hitler attacking the Jews. a way of getting the
rest of the fundies on thier side Studying the history of the mormon church I learned that they are the most violent
religious group to be spawned on American Soil. The mormons are busy denying the facts that support their atricities
but anyone who cares to can quickly find out the truth about their organization. They continue to lie and deny their
heritage where it tarnishes their image. I don't like attacking people's faith, Even a misunderstood approach to God is
better than none but the danger they pose to our freedom in this country makes it vital that they be exposed !
If you study Hitler's rise to power , you find amazing parallels to the Mormon agenda. One other thing that could be
just a coincidence but the Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred 144 years to the day before the 9 11 attack on the
twin towers. The threat of theocracy is real, I know the intenet is full of conspiracy plots but
I think it is important that all of us get involved in protecting democracy!
123CandS

Kailua Kona, HI

#5 Dec 7, 2008
Reference on Juanita Brooks: "historian and author, specializing in the American West and Mormon history, including books related to the Mountain Meadows massacre, to which her ancestor Dudley Leavitt was sometimes linked."

This information is interesting on Juanita Brooks: "..initially Brooks said she felt ostracized from both her local [Mormon] congregation and church officials for her investigations into Mormon history."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Brooks

Juanita Brooks
Born 1898
Bunkerville, Nevada, United States
Died 1989
Occupation Historian–author
Nationality American
Juanita Pulsipher Brooks[1](b. 1898, Bunkerville, Nevada - d. 1989) was an American historian and author, specializing in the American West and Mormon history, including books related to the Mountain Meadows massacre, to which her ancestor Dudley Leavitt was sometimes linked.[2]

Born Juanita Leone Leavitt, Brooks was raised in Bunkerville, Nevada. In 1919 she married Ernest Pulsipher, who died of cancer little more than a year later, leaving her with an infant son. She earned her bachelor's degree from BYU and a master's degree from Columbia University. Settling in St. George, Utah, she became an instructor of English and dean of women at Dixie College. In 1933 she resigned from the college to marry a widower, Will Brooks. She became stepmother to his four sons. Within five years the couple added a daughter and three sons to their family.

For many years she served on the Board of the Utah Historical Society where she devoted herself to unearthing diaries and records of early settlers and organized a Utah library of Mormon history. The diary-collecting project was begun under the Works Progress Administration during the Depression of the 1930's; the project's transcripts were eventually catalogued at the Library of Congress.

But more importantly, the study of diaries and other personal journals enlivened Brooks's historiography, and her subsequent works reflected her scrutiny of such sources. Brooks went on to write numerous historical articles as well as a variety of family narratives, including a biography of her pioneer grandfather Dudley Leavitt as well as a biography of her sheriff husband, Uncle Will Tells His Story.[3]

Brooks' notable books on Mormon history include The Mountain Meadows Massacre (1950), John D. Lee: Zealot, Pioneer Builder, Scapegoat (1961); she also edited Hosea Stout's diaries. Brooks' book on the Mountain Meadows Massacre broke new ground. It was the first comprehensive account of the incident using modern historical methods.

Living near the area in southern Utah where the Massacre occurred, Brooks investigated the events thoroughly but found no evidence of direct involvement by Brigham Young. But she did charge him with obstructing the investigation and with provoking the attack through his incendiary rhetoric, calling him "an accessory after the fact." Mormon leader Young, wrote Brooks, became so fearful of federal invasion that he created a hothouse atmosphere where the militia saw threats everywhere.[4]

Brooks was a lifelong member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Although Mormon authorities at church headquarters discouraged Brooks from pursuing her study of the Mountain Meadows massacre, going so far as to blacklist her from church periodicals, her book on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and many of her other studies received critical acclaim.[5] But initially Brooks said she felt ostracized from both her local congregation and church officials for her investigations into Mormon history.[6]

(see numerous references listed on the Website above)
Jess

Americus, GA

#6 Dec 7, 2008
I need some advice….But first I have to explain a few things…So I have three friends. One's Evan, the other Doug, and a girl Jane.
Evan is gay. Doug was molested ages eleven through fifteen by a man. Doug likes gay sex, goes on gay chat cams and stuff. He hasn't really done much with a girl and his experience with a guy has been limited to the molester from our understanding…
Jane and Doug are extremely close. Their relationship reflects a mother-son relationship and is kinda creepy to see. He must hold her when they go out and doesn't go places with us without her. He is extremely dependent on her.
Evan and Doug started hooking up just recently. We all have sleepovers and they do stuff. It's happened three or four times. The relations are kept secret and Doug doesn't say anything to anyone. Evan has told us though.
Just yesterday Doug was hitting on Jane and he made out with her. Jane was not all up for it but allowed it just because it was so shocking and sudden. Later on during that sleepover, Doug and Evan started to hand job. Doug and Evan were on the bed and Jane and I got in one little fight and my mom got scared. She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air.' I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said FRESH and it had dice in the mirror. If anything I can say this cab is rare. But I thought 'Now forget it, Yo homes to Bel Air!' I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 and I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later.' I looked at my kingdom. I was finally there to sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air.
go live

Honolulu, HI

#7 Dec 8, 2008
nothing but the truth wrote:
One thing to think about. Mormon, JW and Evangelical churches have a set of fears and coersions not always understood by others. Their families,friends and church members would/will excommunicate,shun,disfellowsh ip them if they actually changed their minds. Therefore,to argue with them really is fruitless (not that it stops me LOL),but they have a vested interest in maintaining the belief system they have. They can't "afford" in their minds to lose that-their families and friends with the church leaders instruction and blessing will no longer speak,eat or include them in family functions FOREVER.They will not be welcome in church unless they "repent" Mormons also believe in blood atonement for sins not accepted by church as forgivable.Even if repented-they will have to earn back the "trust" as an obedient member which may never be fully accepted. I've SEEN this happen more than once.It is not something they warn newcomers about because of the obvious.
What is the "blood" atonement business. The savior died for our sins; he bled; he suffered. I believe that is a universal understanding of 'Jesus dying for our sins". As far as the gaining back of trust: don't you believe that there should be some sort of accountability when you do something wrong? Most of the time you when you feel like you have done something that goes against the commandements, you go talk your bishop. This where the repentance process begins.

Not to talk down about other religions, but saying a couple of "hail mary's" doens't begin to take accounatbility for your actions when you do something that you think is questionable in the eyes of God. It is my opinion that people want to serve the Lord half-way; they want to be in church and proclaim, but the second they do something wrong they do't want to be held accountable. That is what being a man is all about; being accountable and willing to accept the cons that go with it. You can always go back the savior, but most people become prideful, which I believe is the work of the adversary..its very sad.
go live

Honolulu, HI

#8 Dec 8, 2008
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
Here is a little more information to help clarify the image of the Mormon Church.
The passage of proposition 8 in California is a setback for civil rights, but the positive side is that it is waking people up to the
very real threat of a theocracy run by fundamentalist wackos that would make the taliban look like a sewing circle!
Until the defeat of prop 8, I knew nothing about the Mormons except the knowledge that their sacred book was in part
copied from the King James including the typos ! I found this out opening the book at random and recognizing the
passages. I quickly dismissed the mormons as an obvious fraud and didn't think about the mormons untill it occured to me
that something suspicious was happening, with their feverish pushing to get prop 8 passed. I did some investigation on
my own and quickly uncovered their theodemocracy plot. There is enough information out there to clearly show that this
group is a dangerous political group. Attacking the gays was much like Hitler attacking the Jews. a way of getting the
rest of the fundies on thier side Studying the history of the mormon church I learned that they are the most violent
religious group to be spawned on American Soil. The mormons are busy denying the facts that support their atricities
but anyone who cares to can quickly find out the truth about their organization. They continue to lie and deny their
heritage where it tarnishes their image. I don't like attacking people's faith, Even a misunderstood approach to God is
better than none but the danger they pose to our freedom in this country makes it vital that they be exposed !
If you study Hitler's rise to power , you find amazing parallels to the Mormon agenda. One other thing that could be
just a coincidence but the Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred 144 years to the day before the 9 11 attack on the
twin towers. The threat of theocracy is real, I know the intenet is full of conspiracy plots but
I think it is important that all of us get involved in protecting democracy!
Do you believe that the King James Bible is true as far as you know it. That book has been so manipulated; so many important concepts and covenants have been left out of the bible. The BOM seeks to clarify and introduce some of the important ordinaces and covenants left out of the bible. Do you believe that the savior only roamed in the Israel. I believe he went to all people all around the world to proclaim who he was, not just those areas in and around the fertile crescent.
LouisianaHurrica ne

Colorado Springs, CO

#9 Dec 8, 2008
Get this, Marie Osmond said while she was on Larry King a couple of months ago that Mormons and Jews were alike in the fashion that both religions had been exterminated (Killed off) to some degree. What she failed to mention is that Jews were killed because Hitler was a control Freak and was afraid that the Jews taking over, so there was no cause for Hitler to do the terrible things to them. However, when the Mormons were being hunted and killed, it was because these so-called Mormon prophets were taking as many as 30 wives and having all kinds of children because Joesph Smith and Brigham Young told them they would go to Heaven if they did. They said that God came to them and told them they could do this and that the Mormon Church was the only true church and that they (Mormons) were the only ones that were going to Heaven. Yep Marie Osmond is a Brainwashed Physcopath! She sure as hell ain't going by what the Mormon church teaches. All her kids are so screwed up becuase she's been married twice and divorced twice. One kid is a Playboy, the second kid is a drunk (Who's also Gay), the third kid has been had by so many men, I think she took on the tradition that the Mormon men did. The 4th kid is a druggie, and the the 6th kid is on Myspace along with his younger Sister bragging about how much fun he has geting into trouble. Oh yea Marie, you have been such the example for Mormons everywhere. Mormons, a word of advice, clean out you own yards, before you try and tell others how to live thier lives!
LouisianaHurrica ne

Colorado Springs, CO

#10 Dec 8, 2008
go live wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the "blood" atonement business. The savior died for our sins; he bled; he suffered. I believe that is a universal understanding of 'Jesus dying for our sins". As far as the gaining back of trust: don't you believe that there should be some sort of accountability when you do something wrong? Most of the time you when you feel like you have done something that goes against the commandements, you go talk your bishop. This where the repentance process begins.
Not to talk down about other religions, but saying a couple of "hail mary's" doens't begin to take accounatbility for your actions when you do something that you think is questionable in the eyes of God. It is my opinion that people want to serve the Lord half-way; they want to be in church and proclaim, but the second they do something wrong they do't want to be held accountable. That is what being a man is all about; being accountable and willing to accept the cons that go with it. You can always go back the savior, but most people become prideful, which I believe is the work of the adversary..its very sad.
You must be a God-forsaken Mormon, but let me warn you to leave the Catholics out of this merr-go-round of yours! We are not the ones who take on 30 wives or that will not allow a Black man to enter the Mormon Priesthood or to deny interracial couples to marry in the Mormon Church. Nor did we start pushing this prop 8 thing to take away Gay and Lesbian rights! So you have been enlightened, Dummy!
Gyp

Riverton, UT

#11 Dec 8, 2008
It is a shame that I cannot work at Schriever (Falcon), Peterson or Buckley AFB.

Having to serve my country at Hill AFB, while an honor, is pure Hell living in Mormon country.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#12 Dec 8, 2008
The Mormon church has never really had an image problem. They are who they have always have been. But like with Islam, you have fear mongers who without seeking to understand what they fear scream for their lives about something they have no more knowledge about then their own waking lives.
go live

Honolulu, HI

#13 Dec 8, 2008
LouisianaHurricane wrote:
<quoted text> You must be a God-forsaken Mormon, but let me warn you to leave the Catholics out of this merr-go-round of yours! We are not the ones who take on 30 wives or that will not allow a Black man to enter the Mormon Priesthood or to deny interracial couples to marry in the Mormon Church. Nor did we start pushing this prop 8 thing to take away Gay and Lesbian rights! So you have been enlightened, Dummy!
I never called you a name, but thats ok. And yes, I am a member of the LDS faith and I'm black...ouch!!! double whammy for me. but I can handle it
there it is

Kelseyville, CA

#14 Dec 10, 2008
PART 1-
Nazi Germany

Back to Mormon Quotes Index

"Hitler enjoyed at least as much popularity among German Saints as he did among the population in general. His apparent dynamism and self-confidence seemed to show a way out of the chaos and weakness of the Weimar years. Moreover, as ‘good Germans,' the Mormons were acutely aware that Hitler had risen to power through legal channels... Some Church members even saw Hitler as God’s instrument, preparing the world for the millennium. Superficial parallels were drawn between the Church and the Nazi party with its emphasis on active involvement by every member... The vital importance of ‘Aryan’ ancestry gave new significance to genealogical research. And the Fuhrer himself, the non-smoking, non-drinking vegetarian who yielded to no one in his desire for absolute law and order, seemed to embody many of the most basic LDS virtues."

- Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler,“The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29

"...[S]ympathy [for some of the Nazi goals] was apparently shared by some members of the [Mormon] Church leadership. The Church's German magazine, Der Stern, reminded its readers in 1935 that Senator Reed Smoot had long been a friend of Germany, and this attitude seemed to receive official sanction during President Grant's 1937 visit. The message to the German Saints was clear: Stay here. Keep the Commandments. Try to get along the best you can, even under some limitations. We want to keep the Church intact and the missionaries working.”

- Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler,“The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29
there it is

Kelseyville, CA

#15 Dec 10, 2008
PART 2 "In their eagerness to coexist with the [Nazi] government, American officials of the German Church resorted to public relation efforts ... Probably the clearest example of this tendency is an article by West German Mission President Alfred C. Rees entitled 'In the Land of the Mormons.' The article appeared in a special issue of the Nazi Party organ Der Volkische Beobachter dated April 14 1937. In the Editor's Preface to the article, President Rees is called 'the representative of the Church in Germany,' who 'paints for our readers a portrait of Mormonism today, a church which views the New Germany with sympathy and friendship.' Whether President Rees originally wrote the article in German or not, the language of the piece abounds in such loaded terms as Volk and Rasse (race), and a picture of Brigham Young bears the caption,'Fuhrer der historischen Mormonenpioniere.' But the significance of these linguistic gaffes is magnified by hindsight. More disturbing is the way President Rees blatantly parallels Mormonism with Nazism. As Rees warms to his topic, Mormonism begins to sound like a fulfillment of Nazi teachings, providing 'the practical realization of the German ideal: "the common good takes precedence over the individual good."' Rees concluded by assuring his readers that 'Mormons are people who put this healthy doctrine into action.' Reading articles such as this, it would have been easy for a German Saint to mistakenly conclude that the seal of official Church approval had been placed on the Nazi regime."
Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler,“The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29
"[The Mormon] policy of appeasing the Nazis worked well until the war broke out. Despite the classification of Mormonism as a sect 'dangerous to the state…' according to Gestapo reports, the Church was not summarily dissolved as many others were. The missionaries remained; the Church continued. Even during the war, Mormon life was disrupted more by bombing raids, supply shortages, and travel restrictions than by official harassment. By and large, the German Saints lived through the Thousand-Year Reich much like the rest of their countrymen."
- Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler,“The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29
Gorgan

Santa Clara, CA

#16 Dec 10, 2008
so tired of baseball and apple pie. america, how the mighty have fallen and not even in business very long, unlike the Roman empire, so why so prideful Americanos?...stupidty and blindness and arrogance and self-centered over indulgence, not that everyone isn't good at that.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#17 Dec 13, 2008
there it is wrote:
PART 2 "In their eagerness to coexist with the [Nazi] government, American officials of the German Church resorted to public relation efforts ... Probably the clearest example of this tendency is an article by West German Mission President Alfred C. Rees entitled 'In the Land of the Mormons.' The article appeared in a special issue of the Nazi Party organ Der Volkische Beobachter dated April 14 1937. In the Editor's Preface to the article, President Rees is called 'the representative of the Church in Germany,' who 'paints for our readers a portrait of Mormonism today, a church which views the New Germany with sympathy and friendship.' Whether President Rees originally wrote the article in German or not, the language of the piece abounds in such loaded terms as Volk and Rasse (race), and a picture of Brigham Young bears the caption,'Fuhrer der historischen Mormonenpioniere.' But the significance of these linguistic gaffes is magnified by hindsight. More disturbing is the way President Rees blatantly parallels Mormonism with Nazism. As Rees warms to his topic, Mormonism begins to sound like a fulfillment of Nazi teachings, providing 'the practical realization of the German ideal: "the common good takes precedence over the individual good."' Rees concluded by assuring his readers that 'Mormons are people who put this healthy doctrine into action.' Reading articles such as this, it would have been easy for a German Saint to mistakenly conclude that the seal of official Church approval had been placed on the Nazi regime."
Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler,“The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29
"[The Mormon] policy of appeasing the Nazis worked well until the war broke out. Despite the classification of Mormonism as a sect 'dangerous to the state…' according to Gestapo reports, the Church was not summarily dissolved as many others were. The missionaries remained; the Church continued. Even during the war, Mormon life was disrupted more by bombing raids, supply shortages, and travel restrictions than by official harassment. By and large, the German Saints lived through the Thousand-Year Reich much like the rest of their countrymen."
- Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler,“The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29
And your point was??

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#18 Dec 14, 2008
No suprise asked "And your point was?? " over your head obviously.
Cheryl

Spanish Fork, UT

#19 Dec 14, 2008
I am a non-mormon and I have a question. What did you mean by "It's hell living in Mormon Country"? What problems have you had? I am curious because I come from California where I attended the Methodist Church and have no problems at all making friends with all my neighbors or co-existing with Mormons at all. I wonder if this problem has a lot to do with one's general outlook on life. Inability to just plain "get along with others"???

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#21 Dec 14, 2008
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
No suprise asked "And your point was?? " over your head obviously.
A paste is a paste unless one initiates comments/questions to go with the paste. Apparently it passed over your head smurf952 because you didn't respond either. lololol

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