General Assembly Church of the First Born Cult

The % of deaths of those who doctor are 75% higher than the members of this sect who put their faith in God.

I joined general assembly church of the firstborn and am appalled @ how many negative comments are made about this church. I have never seen this "rick ross" come visit our church so I do not know why anyone would actually believe anything he says. Where does he get his info? Faith healing is based on the individual in our church & is not required by any means. For goodness sake, I AM A NURSE in this church! I am so afraid of what this world is coming to with their beliefs...if you put too much faith in God your "a cult" or "a freak"...God made this earth & us...why CAN'T we put him 1st?

I have a friend who goes to this Church Her mom had a stroke nearly a year ago she is still not driving.
I had a burst Appendix just over a year ago Had I have been of this church I would have died due to no Medicine. I am an Orthodox Christian and I find it hard to believe that the Bible could be taken like that. When I had my appendix rupture I got a valuable lesson in life. I learned that we should use every day here for repentance (to the best of our human abilities). we should not take something as precious as a human life for granted. I think it is sad to see so many people young or old die due to not getting medicine; God never wants bad things to happen to us, God allows it to happen to him or her in one way or an other for his or her own good.

A true factual statement about the General Assembly is that faith healing is a choice one makes. It should not be confused with doctrine.
Faith healing will always be questioned. However, it is the right of the American citizen to practice freedom of religion without explanation. While we have advanced in medicine and made some great discoveries it shouldnt be forgotten that medicine is simply a practice. There is no guarantee.
As for the journalism in our country, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Just the facts wrote:

A true factual statement about the General Assembly is that faith healing is a choice one makes. It should not be confused with doctrine.
Faith healing will always be questioned. However, it is the right of the American citizen to practice freedom of religion without explanation. While we have advanced in medicine and made some great discoveries it shouldnt be forgotten that medicine is simply a practice. There is no guarantee.
As for the journalism in our country, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

These are well documented FACTS,(not merely journalism), of cases taken to court where members of Assembly of the First Born have denied medical treatment to children and deaths have resulted.

If adult members choose not to see a physician for treatment, that choice should be left to them, but innocent children depend on adults to protect and care for them.

Following Jesus admonition therefore:
( people can take it how they want to, but I am suggesting that people had better be VERY careful how they treat little children).

9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.

10 See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 18

Who do you serve, Jesus? Or your church's doctrine? And since "faith healing" IS a doctrine pushed and strenuously advocated in this church, it isn't so simple as being merely called "a choice".

Are you not "despising", or disregarding the rights of an innocent baby or little one who can't make that choice for themselves, to allow them to suffer and die for lack of medical treatment when your "faith healing" falls flat?

How many deaths will it take for you all to wake up to the evils in this satanic doctrine?

And before you start accusing me of unbelief, I am an adult spiritfilled Christian who has prayed for myself, and received major healings by the grace and power of God, but thats me. However, I would NEVER allow a child to go untreated by a physician if I saw IMMEDIATELY that for whatever reason, the child did not receive healing and relief from suffering at once.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g03.html

Read it! This isn't "journalism". These are facts, and the facts are that child abuse is against the law. So is murder. Man's law, and above all, God's Law.

Anti-Cult wrote:

<quoted text>
These are well documented FACTS,(not merely journalism), of cases taken to court where members of Assembly of the First Born have denied medical treatment to children and deaths have resulted.
If adult members choose not to see a physician for treatment, that choice should be left to them, but innocent children depend on adults to protect and care for them.
Following Jesus admonition therefore:
( people can take it how they want to, but I am suggesting that people had better be VERY careful how they treat little children).
9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.
10 See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 18
Who do you serve, Jesus? Or your church's doctrine? And since "faith healing" IS a doctrine pushed and strenuously advocated in this church, it isn't so simple as being merely called "a choice".
Are you not "despising", or disregarding the rights of an innocent baby or little one who can't make that choice for themselves, to allow them to suffer and die for lack of medical treatment when your "faith healing" falls flat?
How many deaths will it take for you all to wake up to the evils in this satanic doctrine?
And before you start accusing me of unbelief, I am an adult spiritfilled Christian who has prayed for myself, and received major healings by the grace and power of God, but thats me. However, I would NEVER allow a child to go untreated by a physician if I saw IMMEDIATELY that for whatever reason, the child did not receive healing and relief from suffering at once.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g03.html
Read it! This isn't "journalism". These are facts, and the facts are that child abuse is against the law. So is murder. Man's law, and above all, God's Law.

Well Anti you perplexed me with your facts...you led me to a site that was nothing more than news clippings. There is no denying the fact that there has been court cases however the facts should emanate from the court record transcripts themselves not a reporting on them which is biased.

I myself will have to admit that I am NOT a spirit-led christian...but it sounds like the person you were barraging against was an actual member and would have "lived" the facts that you only read about!

I have often wondered if there was any true christians anywhere...and if so then their faith that Christ is able and WILL forgive sins and save them must of necessity be intertwined with corporal healing as well! "Which is easier,( I am paraphrasing) to forgive sins or heal the body? " Seems in Jesus' day there was no question of him AND his followers of healing sicknesses...the leaders were angry because he was healing souls ! Wow has times changed!!

Anti-Cult wrote:

<quoted text>
These are well documented FACTS,(not merely journalism), of cases taken to court where members of Assembly of the First Born have denied medical treatment to children and deaths have resulted.
If adult members choose not to see a physician for treatment, that choice should be left to them, but innocent children depend on adults to protect and care for them.
Following Jesus admonition therefore:
( people can take it how they want to, but I am suggesting that people had better be VERY careful how they treat little children).
9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.
10 See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 18
Who do you serve, Jesus? Or your church's doctrine? And since "faith healing" IS a doctrine pushed and strenuously advocated in this church, it isn't so simple as being merely called "a choice".
Are you not "despising", or disregarding the rights of an innocent baby or little one who can't make that choice for themselves, to allow them to suffer and die for lack of medical treatment when your "faith healing" falls flat?
How many deaths will it take for you all to wake up to the evils in this satanic doctrine?
And before you start accusing me of unbelief, I am an adult spiritfilled Christian who has prayed for myself, and received major healings by the grace and power of God, but thats me. However, I would NEVER allow a child to go untreated by a physician if I saw IMMEDIATELY that for whatever reason, the child did not receive healing and relief from suffering at once.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g03.html
Read it! This isn't "journalism". These are facts, and the facts are that child abuse is against the law. So is murder. Man's law, and above all, God's Law.

Actually I wouldn't have accused you of anything but having an agenda, as does the website you are referring to.
I have one as well, and that is to protect the right we have as American citizens to practice freedom of religion.
I realize this concept is getting harder for the American people to grasp, but the fact is that physicians "practice" medicine. They treat symptoms, you are not guaranteed results.
There is no doubt the medical community has made progress and has made life better for some people. But who are you to tell others what they should believe in and do with their children? It’s a very fine line you are crossing…. Accusing parents of child abuse is a serious offense itself.
And no, not all of the facts are being printed on the website you are referring to, but that wouldn’t make the story as interesting, now would it!?

I think that anyone who is sick should rely on BOTH faith AND medicine, to get better

I've pondered the following question many times.

Which statement seems more unbelievable?

The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7

The prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

James 5:15

For those that don't believe Genesis 2:7 the discussion stops here, and there are other discussion boards for atheist.

For those that do believe Genesis 2:7 the discussion is just beginning.

How can you believe that God created mankind from the the dust of the earth, but doubt that he can heal you when you are sick? It seems foolish to say that I believe God created me, but I don't believe he can heal me.

Let's assume you have been diagnosed with a life threatening disease. The doctor that diagnosed you refers you to another doctor who is a specialist. This doctor informs you that the disease is incurable. At this point most everyone will seek God for healing. I choose to seek God first and foremost since he is our creator.

If God says today is the last day of your life, can a doctor alter that timeframe? I don't believe so.

P.S. I wish Rick Cross would exert his energy on chronicling deaths from the malpractice of doctors. His website would not be able to contain the whole. Instead he chooses to highlights the rare cases of someone dying while putting their fate in the hands of their creator.

Our Church is not against going to the doctor or taking medicine, just to set the record straight!!!!! Many people have died in the care of doctors they don't know everything.
I am pregnant and I have my doctor visits set up to go through out my pregnancy. I am 30 years old and I have been in three Major, Major car accidents and many more tragic times in my life. I came out with not even ONE INJURY in my accidents I have been in, that to me that the almighty father spared my life THREE times! I have faith that God can do anything! He is more powerful than a lot of you know. He created this world in seven days and breathed this world into exsitance do you not have faith that he can heal you? Do you read the stories in the bible, of the maraculous healings? Ask your self really do you believe in these things the Holy Bible teaches? We all have the right to believe the way we choose to believe. Leave this church alone!

Anti-Cult wrote:

<quoted text>
These are well documented FACTS,(not merely journalism), of cases taken to court where members of Assembly of the First Born have denied medical treatment to children and deaths have resulted.
If adult members choose not to see a physician for treatment, that choice should be left to them, but innocent children depend on adults to protect and care for them.
Following Jesus admonition therefore:
( people can take it how they want to, but I am suggesting that people had better be VERY careful how they treat little children).
9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.
10 See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 18
Who do you serve, Jesus? Or your church's doctrine? And since "faith healing" IS a doctrine pushed and strenuously advocated in this church, it isn't so simple as being merely called "a choice".
Are you not "despising", or disregarding the rights of an innocent baby or little one who can't make that choice for themselves, to allow them to suffer and die for lack of medical treatment when your "faith healing" falls flat?
How many deaths will it take for you all to wake up to the evils in this satanic doctrine?
And before you start accusing me of unbelief, I am an adult spiritfilled Christian who has prayed for myself, and received major healings by the grace and power of God, but thats me. However, I would NEVER allow a child to go untreated by a physician if I saw IMMEDIATELY that for whatever reason, the child did not receive healing and relief from suffering at once.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g03.html
Read it! This isn't "journalism". These are facts, and the facts are that child abuse is against the law. So is murder. Man's law, and above all, God's Law.

If God dosent want us to suffer, why did his son. Psalm 118:8 and 9. God heals, not doctors! No doctor can control death or life> The lord giveth and He taketh away, not man!

The general assembly way is the ONLY way!!!

I was reading some of the posts for this forum and a lot for factnet.org , most of which are either "marked" from the GA&CFB
(General Assembly and Church of the First Born), never went to but are just against the church or/and some who currently go who are believers, some sound as if they are still staying true to God's word, and some sound like they are struggling but that there is diffidculty in the church so it is not just them.

Mostly the other forum says this but this one also, the way you describe the church with many different views and doctrines, even if you go to the same church but a different "body" of the church, well I am only 16, and don't know a lot of the history of the church, only more current and of course what we hear of the Bible, but from what I know, there was a body of the church in Oklahoma, we are not sure who is left over there, hear little of what goes on there, but it around the 90s I think, trouble came,(this is what I heard from my parents, I was not born or was too young to know what all happened) a mix of doctrines came up, confusion, soon after bodies were set up(if I am mistaken, they were set up after the incident in Oklahoma, or they were already set up) in Oregon(Currently Junction City), Idaho (Currently Boise) and South Cali(not sure which city). From what I know, it happened something like this, We lost word of what went on at Oklahoma, because they believed different than us,(I go to the church in Junction Citry OR) not so much a different doctrine, because that would probably mean we would seperate from them entirely, not quite sure, but they just had different views and issues such as I think being with those who were marked, but recently some came to visit so I know there are some believers there, but maybe just not understanding all the way what is exactly right. I know when the split came up I think around 96,(I remember being at Camp Lanein Oregon in the 90s I think seeing over a hundred bretheren, then a few years later seeing less than half) the bretheren were confused on who was right and wrong, those who say that they got marked for wrong reasons, I don't know exactly what it was for, but there were those who marked some for no reason at all, lots of confusion, my parents know the story, ask me more and I can get some info from them, they were there.

Biggest discussion, doctors, obviously being marked for going to doctors is not right, if you mark those wrongly, the one who marked them wrongly is marked, this could have been a problem and may still be in a church in Oklahoma or another church else where, I have only been to Idaho, Cali, of course OR, and have only heard of Oklamhoma, no other places, but what we believe is, going to doctors is your choice, I wish all could put their trust in God, but not all do, according to your faith, sometimes bretheren need more faith before putting their trust in God for healing, and others may never stop going to the doctors, it's up to them, it's not a sin to go to the doctors, those who say it is are wrong, and I have not heard of any recent problems in the church I go to, I have heard of discussion and problems in the past though, although, I suggest going to the doctor until you become baptised, God may heal you or loved ones even if you are not part of the church, but only if you seek him, and it will not always save those you love because sometimes we need to learn a lesson, or it may be a trial, but over all it was there time to go, it's a big discussion, that's all for now, have any questions or somments email me at BPR5311992@gmail.com

Reply to my previous post:

Sorry I forgot something, also another reason you hear all sorts of bad things is because, those who are marked, which I see some on here, left the faith because they thought it was too hard and wanted their way, well most often those who are marked are un aware of what happened, but even if they are aware, Satan takes over and can make them believe anything he wants them to, even if it isn't true, let me put this plain and simple.

The Marked:
They abbandonded God, God did not abandon then, he tried to save them, but there are "sins unto death", look it up in the Bible (I can get verses later, just ask for 'em), they committed the sins unto death, such as fornification, adultry, false teachings, false accusers, and many more I can not think of right now, and once committed there is no turning back, those who are marked are doomed, I am sorry, we wish they could be forggiven, but they had their chance, they have no hope, to let them in our lives would be leaven (however it is spelt), we must split from them, that is all.

Sorry for a number of posts, while my previous posts are up for others who think this church is a cult, I want to apologise, when I posted I said it as if I was talking to all but a few on here, I got so caught up on this pther forum, scan through this one and didn't take the time to realise most are siding with the church, so my posts are for the non believers or those who do not understand but wish to.

There has to be a law passed nation wide, not just a state to state law, that has to state that any unborn child and children under the age of 18 must receive medical attention. You people who claim that "God will heal us" are more than welcome to do as you damn well please, but these babies and kids do not know any better and they need protection from YOU.

It might not say that you can't go to the doctor, but how many do? If "members" seek medical attention, they are shunned. If a mother goes to the hospital to have a baby that fails to progress during labor after 36 hours, they are said that the devil has gotten a hold of her in a weak moment. I don't care if you're a nurse or a physician in this "religion"... you're a hypocrite: You believe in one thing but yet still do another.

You people make me sick. Each and every one of you must be held liable for your actions and do prison time or be executed for any deaths that occur due to lack of medical treatment. And more than 4 months, as it was done to a couple from your cult here in Oklahoma where their 4 month old child died from pneumonia.

Tell me this - if God did not want there to be physicians, why did he give some of us the intelligence to be medical people? He gives us the ability to be who and what we are. Not YOU or your "church".

Why is it that if a person is not of your "church" when they marry into a family of the "church", then they are shunned or the spouse becomes shunned? That is not how religion works. That is not how God works. He loves and accepts everyone who accepts Him. It doesn't matter what color they are, what they do for a living, or what religion they belong to. As long as you believe and accept Jesus Christ, that's good enough for Him.

Yes, people die. That's a fact. You're born, you die. Doctors help ease the pain and suffering while you are here on this earth before you go to heaven. In the end, it is all up to God.

kminnie wrote:

I think that anyone who is sick should rely on BOTH faith AND medicine, to get better

Agreed.

Hello everybody,
It is a good day and I am thankful to be alive.
I thought I would take a few minutes to add a
ittle input. Though, I realize that very little
is ever accomplished in these forums. I think
more ideally people need to converse face to
face over a lengthy period in order to have any
kind of impact on one anothers lives. Mostly
though I see that everybody brings there own
thoughts to the table in an attempt to change
the opinion of others. That is the best that can
be offered here. So I will try to add my opinion
as well.
I think I want to start back to what Matholomew
said because I think he makes a very good point
though I have trouble with the conclusion. He
quoted James 5:15 but I want to look at the
couple of verses before and after to get an idea
of what is being said.
Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him
pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call
for the elders of the church; and let them
pray over him, anointing him with oil in the
name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the
sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if
he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another,
and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man
availeth much.
Here in this text on first glance it appears that
a blanket promise is being made to all believers
that if someone is sick that God will heal that
person. The first thing I would like to point out
is that this actually shouldn't be considered a
blanket statement because we know that Paul
suffered in the flesh as it says in 2co 12:7. He
sought the Lord three times and was not healed.
So we can see that the James passage is not to be
taken as a blanket statement that God WILL heal
if we seek him about it. But we can conclude that
we should seek him.
So does it say anywhere in this passage that you
should not seek any medical attention. No, not at
all. In fact elsewhere in the Bible Paul tells
Timothy to "take a little wine for stomach sake"
1Ti 5:23 Also in the Old T EZE 47:12"...and the
fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf
thereof for medicine." Jesus for that matter
says "Luk 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto
them, They that are whole need not a physician;
but they that are sick." Is Jesus condoning
doctors here? I am not sure but it wouldn't make
alot of sense to use an analogy about something
he would be against in that way.

There is alot that could be said both ways here
and I realize that but again in this style of
communicating things are limited and I don't want
to write on forever covering everything that could
be covered. I will say this though about faith.
All faith really is is saying that God is Faithfull.
In other words faith is believing that what God
says is true. If God says that he is going to heal
someone then believing that is faith. However,
if you believe something that God didn't say.
In other words if you believe that God will heal
you and God never told you he will heal you, then
you have an extreme amount of faith but it is not
Faith in God, It is faith in your presumption.
And that, is liable to fall out from under you.
I definately think that there are "divine healings"
but those healings happen both in the home and in
the hospital.
Closing thought:the other day my boy bumped his
eye and got blood all over. My wife and I sprung
into action and got out the old tape and bandage to
repair him. Afterward we prayed that he would heal.
Now I don't think we did anything different than
anyone else would have done in the General Assembly.
And, I don't think we did anything different then
what a doctor would have done. We would have been
just as well to go to a doctor and let them tape
him back up (though we would have had a $1000 bill)
LOL Anyway, a few days later, sure enough God
fixed him. We took the bangages off and he just
had a little scab. Just think about the miracle
of how your body (God gave you)goes to work to
repair itself. It really is amazing.

Now if I haven't caused any to fall asleep I would like
address some of the things that Benjamin Reed wrote.
Ben, It is with a troubled heart I read some of the
things your post. While I don't consider the
General Assembly a cult, I do consider those of your
group to be a cult. There is alot of mind control and
manipulation that goes on in your group. And I can see
that evidence still in what you wrote. I am guessing
that you have not been permitted to respond to my email
for those reasons. I am not even sure where to start.
I know the history of your group and the things that have
gone on. You have it in your mind that I am a bad
person, but consider this, my children will grow up and
very possibly be taught by me the wrongs and the errors
of your group. Though, he has never met any in your
group, he will have an opinion formed. It is my prayer
and hope for my kids, and for you, that they/you will
study the scriptures and abandon all biases and opinions
that I teach them and they pick up on the way. That
they have an unhindered freedom to explore and be led in
what is right in the Bible. It says in 2nd Timothy
Chapter 2 to study to show yourself approved unto God,
A workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing
the word of truth. So study man.

In your list of "sins unto death" and "sins not unto death"
you said that one of those sins is false teaching. You
are teaching on this forum and obviously have very little
understanding of the Bible.(I don't say that to embarrass
you) If it is your opinion that false teaching is a sin
unto death I suggest you to be very well versed and sure
of what the bible says about some of those things before
teaching. I was e-mailing you before to try and get you
to look up those passages and come up with a conclusion
on your own.