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"Shaffer and Coates each claimed to state police that the other cut him off, according to court records. Shaffer pulled off the highway to check for damages after alleging Coates threw stones at his car. While there, Shaffer claimed he had to pull a gun on Coates, who was swearing and threatening to kill him. "

So seems this guy has made a habit of pulling his gun on people for minor issues. Seems like he pulled it on the wrong guy this time. No idea from the article what exactly happened, but it seems Mr. Shaffer has a history of poor decision making with a firearm.

FTR wrote:

If we all carried guns all the time no one would ever accidentally wander on to anyone else's land and there would be no crime.

Hey nutso...clearly they ALL had guns because BOTH sides in the dispute were shot!!! So guess what...your asinine theory was shot in the head before you even got it out! Oh wait with your twisted logic maybe the guy who killed Shaffer shot himself after the fact so it would look like he has shooting in self defense. Yeah that's it for sure.

This is what happens when idiots with tiny pricks and big heads start strutting and showing off their pieces. Stupidity and guns combined to kill this man.

Wow I can't believe that even has to be explained...

People trespassing on someone else's property is a property offense which should be settled the way property offenses should be settled - with fine and restitution. If someone dents your car--they pay.If someone drives into your window--they pay. Why in this case is a gun the answer? I am not clear why in this property case a fine is not enough? I am not a hunter nor am I anti-gun but I am unclear why someone feels justified to blow someone away when they step on your property. This logic doesn't hold up when you are talking about other forms of legal property? Someone explain to me the difference, preferably without profanity.

The injured hunter is no prize either. two disorderly fighting charges and a major misdemeanor fighting and criminal mischief offense all within the past 4 years.(along with numerous traffic stops and an underaged booze charge) Cops ought to be adding misdemeanor agricultural trespassing. Gotta wonder what really happened. Perhaps two ill tempered idiots collided.

Frankly, a landowner confronted by several firearms toting trespassing criminals. I suppose some of you think he is supposed to go unarmed politely ask them to hang around for the police to arrive and cite them?

How many of you would ask 4 or 5 armed criminals to do anything? Are landowners supposed to just cower in their homes and pray the police do something. Just last week in York County, a trespasser shot a horse and killed it. Trespassers aren't just out going for a walk to pick daisies. They are criminals. They steal the rights and benefits of land ownership that the rightful owners pay for. Just like I pay for my car and don't want someone using/taking it without permission. Or my lawn mower, or television. If just anyone can waltz in and steal the use of their property, there would be no reason to own it. Same would be true for your house or apartment as well. It is no more selfish to expect the right to exclusive use of land as any other property. Do you buy a car expecting that any stranger can simply use it? Is that a selfish attitude? Why when the property involved is far more valuable than a car, does it become selfish?

Frank and his family were my family's neighbors for years they were the kind of neighbors everyone should want to have, they were there to help if you needed help but never meddled , always a smile and a wave. This article leaves out many things about Frank including the service he provided to his country. Before anyone goes around passing judgment on a man they do not know maybe they should spend more time researching the difficulties our men and women in uniform come home with and live with the remainder of their lives.

As for the land and trespassing, if someone is on your land without your permission you have every right to confront them and I find it hard to believe the kind man that was Frank would have simply shot at anyone for just "being there". If you wish to hunt someone's land ask , if they say no leave,, it's fairly simple.

There are hundreds of thousands of acres in PA that are open to public hunting. State game lands, state forests and even private landowners that will let you hunt. There is absolutely no excuse to tresspass onto someones private property. No excuse whatsoever!!!!

intheknow wrote:

<quoted text>
OK fool...how bout if I walk into your home unannounced and use your bathroom. How would you feel then? Your private property is "Your" property, however you want to declare it, private or public and it doesn't matter whether you own a trailer or a 100 acre property. It will be interesting to learn the truth behind this useless act!

Hey nut job! Big difference between walking into your house and trespassing while hunting. Wow! No wonder so many people don't like hunters.

Landowner wrote:

There are hundreds of thousands of acres in PA that are open to public hunting. State game lands, state forests and even private landowners that will let you hunt. There is absolutely no excuse to tresspass onto someones private property. No excuse whatsoever!!!!

No excuses huh? What about if it was accidental? Even if it wasn't, we are supposed to be a civilized society and don't kill over trespassing.

horse luvr wrote:

<quoted text>
No excuses huh? What about if it was accidental? Even if it wasn't, we are supposed to be a civilized society and don't kill over trespassing.

Shut up, keep letting them horse's mount you from behind,
or better yet, let the horse mount you from the front so we do not have to hear you any more !!

horse luvr wrote:

<quoted text>
No excuses huh? What about if it was accidental? Even if it wasn't, we are supposed to be a civilized society and don't kill over trespassing.

Back at ya 2 x's with your horse's !!!!!!!!!!

Oh Brother wrote:

"Shaffer and Coates each claimed to state police that the other cut him off, according to court records. Shaffer pulled off the highway to check for damages after alleging Coates threw stones at his car. While there, Shaffer claimed he had to pull a gun on Coates, who was swearing and threatening to kill him. "
So seems this guy has made a habit of pulling his gun on people for minor issues. Seems like he pulled it on the wrong guy this time. No idea from the article what exactly happened, but it seems Mr. Shaffer has a history of poor decision making with a firearm.

That is interesting. Is that the same "Shaffer" here? Do you have a link to that story?

logical middle wrote:

People trespassing on someone else's property is a property offense which should be settled the way property offenses should be settled - with fine and restitution. If someone dents your car--they pay.If someone drives into your window--they pay. Why in this case is a gun the answer? I am not clear why in this property case a fine is not enough? I am not a hunter nor am I anti-gun but I am unclear why someone feels justified to blow someone away when they step on your property. This logic doesn't hold up when you are talking about other forms of legal property? Someone explain to me the difference, preferably without profanity.

You sound like a typical liberal suburbanite who thinks you can get a cop any time. Go out and see some of those remote spots. It's different out there. It's not like your little smurf village. Those people are on their own a lot of the time.

Oh Brother wrote:

<quoted text>
Its pretty simple, you want people off your property, post it. No one can tell the difference between public land and private if you are too lazy to put up a sign, or even better a fence. Pull a gun on someone in the woods and you are asking for it.

If you can't tell if it's public or private, then stay the hell out.

Well logical, you are showing you didn't think this one through. Why in the world when a person is confronted by 4 or 5 ARMED criminal Trespassers, who don't take kindly to being asked politely to hang around till the police arrive, wouldn't they have a gun as well. Would you ask 4 or 5 armed criinals intent on using your car without permission to wait until the police arrive? Would you do it without being armed? If the car thieves, all five of them started toward you in a thretening manner maybe raising their guns toward you, I suppose you would just waive your magic wand for the police to magically appear. Maybe in your fantasy world this is possible. Reality of being so far into the country that it takes the police an hour or more to arrive, is that criminals are even more brazen, especially the armed ones. Look at York city with all the police they have and telephones everywhere. Has crime just magically disappeared? Why would it do so out in the country?

People slave away their entire lives to own property. they pay for the right of exclusive use of that property. That means the right to be left alone in peace. If anybody can just help themselves to every one else's private possessions, why bother purchasing anything? just leech on your neighbor's car, house, television, cable and food. Just as you may try to stop a person from taking your bicycle or lawn mower, the landowner has the right to protect his property from thieves. Trespassers steal the use of the hard earned property of someone else.

I suspect that they took off when Shaffer saw them, and he followed trying to get theri hunting license numbers and they threatened him. The one shot in the back, merely turned to run away when he saw the gun being raised. Of course we don't know and may never know who shot first. Was Shaffer already shot when he fired? Was the last thing he saw, a criminal Trespasser pointing a gun at him? Both of these individuals have criminal histories for violent behavior.

Sounds like a call to the police should have been the first order of business before the chasing five guys with a gun.

Long time hunter wrote:

<quoted text>
Shut up, keep letting them horse's mount you from behind,
or better yet, let the horse mount you from the front so we do not have to hear you any more !!

Just as I thought, a complete nut job. Your inbred family must be so proud of what they produced.

Guns are pointless. They do nothing but harm, especially in a society where people have completely lost their sense of rationality!!

screamnholler wrote:

Well logical, you are showing you didn't think this one through. Why in the world when a person is confronted by 4 or 5 ARMED criminal Trespassers, who don't take kindly to being asked politely to hang around till the police arrive, wouldn't they have a gun as well. Would you ask 4 or 5 armed criinals intent on using your car without permission to wait until the police arrive? Would you do it without being armed? If the car thieves, all five of them started toward you in a thretening manner maybe raising their guns toward you, I suppose you would just waive your magic wand for the police to magically appear. Maybe in your fantasy world this is possible. Reality of being so far into the country that it takes the police an hour or more to arrive, is that criminals are even more brazen, especially the armed ones. Look at York city with all the police they have and telephones everywhere. Has crime just magically disappeared? Why would it do so out in the country?
People slave away their entire lives to own property. they pay for the right of exclusive use of that property. That means the right to be left alone in peace. If anybody can just help themselves to every one else's private possessions, why bother purchasing anything? just leech on your neighbor's car, house, television, cable and food. Just as you may try to stop a person from taking your bicycle or lawn mower, the landowner has the right to protect his property from thieves. Trespassers steal the use of the hard earned property of someone else.
I suspect that they took off when Shaffer saw them, and he followed trying to get theri hunting license numbers and they threatened him. The one shot in the back, merely turned to run away when he saw the gun being raised. Of course we don't know and may never know who shot first. Was Shaffer already shot when he fired? Was the last thing he saw, a criminal Trespasser pointing a gun at him? Both of these individuals have criminal histories for violent behavior.

How about some cheese with all that wine. I'm sorry for your neighbors.

intheknow wrote:

<quoted text>
OK fool...how bout if I walk into your home unannounced and use your bathroom. How would you feel then? Your private property is "Your" property, however you want to declare it, private or public and it doesn't matter whether you own a trailer or a 100 acre property. It will be interesting to learn the truth behind this useless act!

Disagree totally, most lands are posted on the outskirts attached to the hard roads in remote areas, right? Sometimes, especially around the vast acreage of game land in PA, private land butts up against it, and it is not usually posted. This is not my house we are talking about here, it is land. This is saying that we shoot everyone that goes through a private yard just to search for a dog in a residential area. Who's the fool know. This guy, who was unfortunaly shot, probably had it coming to him, he has been proven to have anger problems. SELF DEFENCE I SAY!!!!!!

screamnholler wrote:

Well logical, you are showing you didn't think this one through. Why in the world when a person is confronted by 4 or 5 ARMED criminal Trespassers, who don't take kindly to being asked politely to hang around till the police arrive, wouldn't they have a gun as well. Would you ask 4 or 5 armed criinals intent on using your car without permission to wait until the police arrive? Would you do it without being armed? If the car thieves, all five of them started toward you in a thretening manner maybe raising their guns toward you, I suppose you would just waive your magic wand for the police to magically appear. Maybe in your fantasy world this is possible. Reality of being so far into the country that it takes the police an hour or more to arrive, is that criminals are even more brazen, especially the armed ones. Look at York city with all the police they have and telephones everywhere. Has crime just magically disappeared? Why would it do so out in the country?
People slave away their entire lives to own property. they pay for the right of exclusive use of that property. That means the right to be left alone in peace. If anybody can just help themselves to every one else's private possessions, why bother purchasing anything? just leech on your neighbor's car, house, television, cable and food. Just as you may try to stop a person from taking your bicycle or lawn mower, the landowner has the right to protect his property from thieves. Trespassers steal the use of the hard earned property of someone else.
I suspect that they took off when Shaffer saw them, and he followed trying to get theri hunting license numbers and they threatened him. The one shot in the back, merely turned to run away when he saw the gun being raised. Of course we don't know and may never know who shot first. Was Shaffer already shot when he fired? Was the last thing he saw, a criminal Trespasser pointing a gun at him? Both of these individuals have criminal histories for violent behavior.

Hey hunting is not a crime right?????!!!??