Which school to close? Debate rages on Toquam vs. Rogers

In the dark wrote:

Are you saying that it's a misconception that magnets get more resources as in $$ then district schools? I was always under the impression that they did...
In fact, I was on a tour of one of the magnet schools, and perhaps I misunderstood but I thought they said they use their "extra" resources to pay for extra teachers and not for supplies, in fact, then they said they get about the same $$ for supplies that a district school does...
Lets assume I understood correctly, why wouldn't it make sense to have magnet schools throughout the city???. Why would anyone prefer a district school over a magnet school, again this is assuming I understood correctly, if they receive more resources,$$?? And let me not forget to ask where do these "extra" resources,$$ come from???
Can you please clarify my confusion??
<quoted text>

Read his reply again. The City gets NO extra funding from outside sources (the state) to give the magnets extra resources! We are supplying all the extras with OUR own tax dollars. So, yes they certainly do recieve more but only city dollars are being used. Fair?? Not by a long shot! Finally some of us are onto the big picture but our non-magnet kids are still getting stiffed. Shameful, those pulling the puppet strings don't seem to care. They would never voluntarily upset thier magnet apple cart because all thier kids are there. And when you had this tour you mentioned did they ever tell you that you might face restrictions you knew nothing about? Doubt it.Hey, maybe you got in! Whoo hoo

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
...Despite magnet schools getting addl resources, most parents prefer to send their child to their districted school. And the only magnet school with substantial draw is Westover, followed, but not closely, by Toquam.

Lets not gloss over the already well established fact that many parents are restricted from the magnet schools. To say that "most parents prefer to send their child to their districted school" may not be as accurate a statement as you may have us believe. The parents that are most interested are most likely the ones that are restricted. So, although the taxman doesn't discriminate, the school system does. But hey, it's not about choice, right?

magnet mess wrote:

<quoted text>Read his reply again. The City gets NO extra funding from outside sources (the state) to give the magnets extra resources! We are supplying all the extras with OUR own tax dollars. So, yes they certainly do recieve more but only city dollars are being used. Fair?? Not by a long shot! Finally some of us are onto the big picture but our non-magnet kids are still getting stiffed. Shameful, those pulling the puppet strings don't seem to care. They would never voluntarily upset thier magnet apple cart because all thier kids are there. And when you had this tour you mentioned did they ever tell you that you might face restrictions you knew nothing about? Doubt it.Hey, maybe you got in! Whoo hoo

It has never been a secret, and there is a good argument that it is justified. It has been discussed endlessly over the years. If you are just learning about it, then you haven't been paying attention.

And for the last ten years at least, there have FAR more children of BOE members in districted schools than in magnet schools.

It's time to tone down the paranoia.

I have tried to provide factual information and some experienced perspective, but that isn't what you want. You want to find "the guilty parties" and lynch them.

And others apparently think if i don't respind to a question within 30 minutes, i must be avoiding it.

No point in my being involved.

concerned wrote:

<quoted text>
Lets not gloss over the already well established fact that many parents are restricted from the magnet schools. To say that "most parents prefer to send their child to their districted school" may not be as accurate a statement as you may have us believe. The parents that are most interested are most likely the ones that are restricted. So, although the taxman doesn't discriminate, the school system does. But hey, it's not about choice, right?

No, very few children have been restricted. Most parents choose their district school. That;s just fact...but i'm not here to argue about speculation. Whatever...you'll have a lot more fun exchanging imagined grievances

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
No, very few children have been restricted. Most parents choose their district school. That;s just fact...but i'm not here to argue about speculation. Whatever...you'll have a lot more fun exchanging imagined grievances

Imagined grievances? <sigh> Unfortunately, with that attitude its no wonder people are getting increasingly annoyed with your carefully selected facts.

Contrary to what you may think, I came to these boards looking for answers to real concerns and real problems, not excuses. You are well informed but rather out of touch if you think these grievances are imagined. Lets stop with the tap dancing and call a spade a spade.

And BTW - Whether the restriction are for 5, 50 or 500 students doesn't make it right, particulary in light of the fact that the magnet schools are getting more $$. The explanation that the magnets are not about choice but about balancing doesn't fly either as that is very obviously not working.

And here's a news brief for you - people without kids rarely if ever follow the goings on of the SPS. Saying that's the way it's been for 10 years means nothing to a new, incoming parent who is learning of these revelations for the first time. We're not all blessed with your depth of knowledge from day one.

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
And for the last ten years at least, there have FAR more children of BOE members in districted schools than in magnet schools.

I wonder how many children of BOE members send their kids to Stark, K.T. Murphy or Hart?

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
No, very few children have been restricted. Most parents choose their district school. That;s just fact...but i'm not here to argue about speculation. Whatever...you'll have a lot more fun exchanging imagined grievances

Do you have an exact figure? Can you quantify "very few".

you were posting on other topics, so lets not pretend you are not tied to your computer speading the rosey stamford line.

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
What? I'm supposed to be tied to my computer waiting for your questions?
Why do i bother?

So far ...
58 meadowpark families
50 stillmeadow/long ridge familes
and 100 families in the housing projects behind westover
and as per the BOE meeting tonight it is just the tip of the redistricting nightmare.

as for the BoE members kid's going to the magnets, it is my understanding that only one has kids in Rogers (Lucky for her with them going to get the new EMS and all) but the Roger to EMS is the only way I see to close a school and Rogers is falling down.

But I have been going thru the westover yearbook it appers that a lot of teachers and downtown staff won the lottery. As well the kids are from expensive communities from all races, they have been hand picked. Do they even have a Speacial Ed deparent LOL

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
No, very few children have been restricted. Most parents choose their district school. That;s just fact...but i'm not here to argue about speculation. Whatever...you'll have a lot more fun exchanging imagined grievances

None currently.

Just Curious wrote:

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I wonder how many children of BOE members send their kids to Stark, K.T. Murphy or Hart?

Complaining wrote:

None currently.
<quoted text>

Enlightening!

Complaining wrote:

as for the BoE members kid's going to the magnets, it is my understanding that only one has kids in Rogers (Lucky for her with them going to get the new EMS and all)<quoted text>

Also very enlightening. This BOE member should recuse herself from making that decision as there appears to be a conflict of interest.

Did anyone go to tonight's meeting? Any comments?

Just a quick comment to your last sentence. When I toured Magnet schools back in 2005 for 06/07 school year I knew there were restrictions to the lottery. They were printed on the back of the application. Also, I received a notice in the mail for 07/08 that there were restrictions to the lottery for certain people and certain schools.

magnet mess wrote:

<quoted text>Read his reply again. The City gets NO extra funding from outside sources (the state) to give the magnets extra resources! We are supplying all the extras with OUR own tax dollars. So, yes they certainly do recieve more but only city dollars are being used. Fair?? Not by a long shot! Finally some of us are onto the big picture but our non-magnet kids are still getting stiffed. Shameful, those pulling the puppet strings don't seem to care. They would never voluntarily upset thier magnet apple cart because all thier kids are there. And when you had this tour you mentioned did they ever tell you that you might face restrictions you knew nothing about? Doubt it.Hey, maybe you got in! Whoo hoo

Here we go again....STARR upsetting the community..........How about we take that million plus slated for the UN-NEEDED soccer feild on Shippan Ave. and pay our TEACHERS or FIX OUR SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!!

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
It has never been a secret, and there is a good argument that it is justified. It has been discussed endlessly over the years. If you are just learning about it, then you haven't been paying attention.
And for the last ten years at least, there have FAR more children of BOE members in districted schools than in magnet schools.
It's time to tone down the paranoia.
I have tried to provide factual information and some experienced perspective, but that isn't what you want. You want to find "the guilty parties" and lynch them.
And others apparently think if i don't respind to a question within 30 minutes, i must be avoiding it.
No point in my being involved.

It's unfortunate that you think anyone who doesn't agree with your rose-colored assessment is either paranoid or out for blood. Do the current members of the board of ed feel the same? That would explain a lot.

Concerned Parent wrote:

<quoted text>
It's unfortunate that you think anyone who doesn't agree with your rose-colored assessment is either paranoid or out for blood. Do the current members of the board of ed feel the same? That would explain a lot.

Deflection and spin. Very glib and talented, but, a long-time part and defender of the system that exascerbated the problems which are being exposed.

You have one open minded and plain speaking member on the BOE, Ed Matthews. He's been in the trenches. Rubino and McManus both seem to have caved-in. The majority of the BOE can't face the resdistricting issue with candor. That would destroy them and their longtime practice of glossing over problems.

Did anyone manage to engage in questions and answers with BOE members at the meeting? Their self-imposed refusal to reply is another part of the problem.

Remember, NO school needs to be closed because of the budget cut, just eliminate the temporary classrooms.

Demand an absolutely transparent look at all aspects of the system. Demand an impartial and even-handed redistricting process, and take all the time you need to get it.

Vox Pop wrote:

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Demand an absolutely transparent look at all aspects of the system. Demand an impartial and even-handed redistricting process, and take all the time you need to get it.

VP - you are a good counter balance to the opposing view point. Unfortunately, what you propose is easier said than done, and the members of the BOE know it. This process of wanting to fix the system as an outsider is frustrating and emotionally draining. The BOE appear to take the path of least resistance and resign themselves to only placating the loudest and most influential of the complainers. How can you compete with that?

concerned wrote:

<quoted text>
VP - you are a good counter balance to the opposing view point. Unfortunately, what you propose is easier said than done, and the members of the BOE know it. This process of wanting to fix the system as an outsider is frustrating and emotionally draining. The BOE appear to take the path of least resistance and resign themselves to only placating the loudest and most influential of the complainers. How can you compete with that?

Did I ever imply that it would be easy?
I hope not. It isn't. It won't be.
But taking the path of least resistance is what led us to this merry mess. And if the BOE gets half a chance, that path will be taken again and again.
The iron is hot now. This is the time to strike it. Parents system-wide appear to be prepared for an open even-handed process, even if it is painful. Even if it brings issues to the table which have been under it for years. All I have been saying is "go for it," and don't be taken in by false premises (like budget cut = close a school,) or by the system's mouthpieces.

Vox Pop wrote:

<quoted text>
Did I ever imply that it would be easy?
I hope not. It isn't. It won't be.
But taking the path of least resistance is what led us to this merry mess. And if the BOE gets half a chance, that path will be taken again and again.
The iron is hot now. This is the time to strike it. Parents system-wide appear to be prepared for an open even-handed process, even if it is painful. Even if it brings issues to the table which have been under it for years. All I have been saying is "go for it," and don't be taken in by false premises (like budget cut = close a school,) or by the system's mouthpieces.

Let me preface my post by saying I currently have my children in private school because I do not trust the fairness and quality of the SPS system (with very few exceptions).

For all the parents complaining on this board, you have my sympathy. I do not think you are paranoid or evil or selfish. I think you are doing what a responsible parent is supposed to be doing - looking out for the best interest of your child. Don't let anyone make you think that you are doing something wrong by voicing your opinions.

I agree with Vox that your concerns should be heard, loud and clear. I would suggest a parent's coalition, but you will need to be careful and well organized. Parental instinct being what it is, the coalition can easily break out into competing factions. And, as previous posters have stated, the loudest and most influential factions will get their way while the other schools continue to languish.

What's truly missing is a BOE with the leadership skills and fortitude to rise above the noise and do what's right, regardless of whether they will get elected again or not.

Why? Because it's the right thing to do. After all, that's why they took the job, right?

Naive? Maybe. But if we lose sight of the ideal end goal, then we're all doomed to a far less effective and unfair system of education. The performance gaps will continue, resentment will abound and the city as a whole will have failed its next generation.

Good luck to all of you, and keep up the good fight.

viva la revolution