Pawlenty hints light rail could be alive

Glad to see he's talking about the rail line again, but this is a sorry excuse for "reaching across the isle."

He was FOR it before he was AGAINST it... and now he's FOR it again? Sheesh! I bet this guy changes his underwear eight times a day as well....

SOME PERSPECTIVE

The Central Corridor light rail line will cost around $900 million. It will essentially replace ONE bus line, the Route 50, and will travel between Saint Paul and Minneapolis in about the same total time as the Route 50. Those single-purpose rails cost a bunch of money and the light rail cars don't carry freight.

The new "Go Greener" buses bought by Metro Transit are low-doorway, diesel-electric hybrids that cost about $500,000 apiece.

So, for the price of the Central Corridor light rail line, we could buy 1,800 of the "Go Greener" buses and serve MULTIPLE bus lines with them on streets that are already paid for -- multi-purpose streets that carry cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and bicycles.

Compared to buses, light rail costs the maximum of money for the minimum of benefit. The Pioneer Press and the Star Tribune don't like to make these comparisons.

Think of the waste.

Gonzo wrote:

Glad to see he's talking about the rail line again, but this is a sorry excuse for "reaching across the isle."

This is a considerably more legitimate compromise offer than anything the DFL has offered up in compromise. DFL'ers offered not to raise any more taxes than they've already passed in their budget bill. That's a compromise? Pawlenty is offering to make a state commitment both in development and operating costs. His priority is on a property tax cap (to protect you from run away government spending) which implies he likely would be willing to negotiate the 10% or 91million to avoid jeprodizing the project. As far as his conditions for a fiscally responsible budget, this simply represents him asking DFL leaders to do what they should be doing in the first place, having the professional sense to work in good faith with the governor and the integrity to make a commitment to protecting your constiuencies from over taxation rather than playing politics and allowing yourself the ability to pass year after year double digit property tax increases. I just love it when anything short of giving everything you want is not a compromise.

Flip Flop wrote:

He was FOR it before he was AGAINST it... and now he's FOR it again? Sheesh! I bet this guy changes his underwear eight times a day as well....

This is about the stupidest and most uninformed comment that could be made. Pawlenty has never been "For" the Central Corridor project in the conext of being a booster or staunch supporter of the project. His support has always represented a compromise to the DFL'ers who support this project.

Cash Dollars wrote:

SOME PERSPECTIVE
The Central Corridor light rail line will cost around $900 million. It will essentially replace ONE bus line, the Route 50, and will travel between Saint Paul and Minneapolis in about the same total time as the Route 50. Those single-purpose rails cost a bunch of money and the light rail cars don't carry freight.
The new "Go Greener" buses bought by Metro Transit are low-doorway, diesel-electric hybrids that cost about $500,000 apiece.
So, for the price of the Central Corridor light rail line, we could buy 1,800 of the "Go Greener" buses and serve MULTIPLE bus lines with them on streets that are already paid for -- multi-purpose streets that carry cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and bicycles.
Compared to buses, light rail costs the maximum of money for the minimum of benefit. The Pioneer Press and the Star Tribune don't like to make these comparisons.
Think of the waste.

Thank you for posting that. I think many pro-lightrail had no idea of the costs.

Cash Dollars wrote:

SOME PERSPECTIVE
The Central Corridor light rail line will cost around $900 million. It will essentially replace ONE bus line, the Route 50, and will travel between Saint Paul and Minneapolis in about the same total time as the Route 50. Those single-purpose rails cost a bunch of money and the light rail cars don't carry freight.
The new "Go Greener" buses bought by Metro Transit are low-doorway, diesel-electric hybrids that cost about $500,000 apiece.
So, for the price of the Central Corridor light rail line, we could buy 1,800 of the "Go Greener" buses and serve MULTIPLE bus lines with them on streets that are already paid for -- multi-purpose streets that carry cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and bicycles.
Compared to buses, light rail costs the maximum of money for the minimum of benefit. The Pioneer Press and the Star Tribune don't like to make these comparisons.
Think of the waste.

I agree with you and tend to think the Governor does as well. That's why I like the approach he is taking with his conditions. He's basically saying, work with me on a fiscally responsible budget and property tax reforms and I'll make a reasonable financial commitment to your (local) LRT project, while limiting the states obligation to protect state resources.

There is a reason why the governor is extremely popular, it's because he is one of the few local leaders that demonstrates common sense and an interest in truly looking out for the earnings of this states residents.

Governor Tim - Don't sell us out. Please stop light rail in St. Paul. I live there and I oppose the central corridor train. We're counting on you to stop this boondoggle!

MORE PERSPECTIVE

One diesel-electric hybrid bus costs $500,000 and it runs on existing streets. One light rail car costs $3 million, and it won't run anywhere until you spend another $800 million or so for rails, roadbed, station shelters, and overhead electric cables.

We can buy 6 hybrid buses for the cost of one light rail car, not to mention the other light rail stuff.

Amazing when you do the math.

Cash Dollars wrote:

SOME PERSPECTIVE
The Central Corridor light rail line will cost around $900 million. It will essentially replace ONE bus line, the Route 50, and will travel between Saint Paul and Minneapolis in about the same total time as the Route 50. Those single-purpose rails cost a bunch of money and the light rail cars don't carry freight.
The new "Go Greener" buses bought by Metro Transit are low-doorway, diesel-electric hybrids that cost about $500,000 apiece.
So, for the price of the Central Corridor light rail line, we could buy 1,800 of the "Go Greener" buses and serve MULTIPLE bus lines with them on streets that are already paid for -- multi-purpose streets that carry cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and bicycles.
Compared to buses, light rail costs the maximum of money for the minimum of benefit. The Pioneer Press and the Star Tribune don't like to make these comparisons.
Think of the waste.

Yes, because operating 1,800 buses doesn't cost anything, right? Tell me - what's the average lifespan of a bus compared to a light rail vehicle? You know, right?

What's the operating cost subsidy for buses versus rail in the Twin Cities? You know, right?

Cash Dollars wrote:

SOME PERSPECTIVE
The Central Corridor light rail line will cost around $900 million. It will essentially replace ONE bus line, the Route 50, and will travel between Saint Paul and Minneapolis in about the same total time as the Route 50. Those single-purpose rails cost a bunch of money and the light rail cars don't carry freight.
The new "Go Greener" buses bought by Metro Transit are low-doorway, diesel-electric hybrids that cost about $500,000 apiece.
So, for the price of the Central Corridor light rail line, we could buy 1,800 of the "Go Greener" buses and serve MULTIPLE bus lines with them on streets that are already paid for -- multi-purpose streets that carry cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and bicycles.
Compared to buses, light rail costs the maximum of money for the minimum of benefit. The Pioneer Press and the Star Tribune don't like to make these comparisons.
Think of the waste.

stop talking sense. there's no room for that here.

Cash Dollars wrote:

SOME PERSPECTIVE
The Central Corridor light rail line will cost around $900 million. It will essentially replace ONE bus line, the Route 50, and will travel between Saint Paul and Minneapolis in about the same total time as the Route 50. Those single-purpose rails cost a bunch of money and the light rail cars don't carry freight.
The new "Go Greener" buses bought by Metro Transit are low-doorway, diesel-electric hybrids that cost about $500,000 apiece.
So, for the price of the Central Corridor light rail line, we could buy 1,800 of the "Go Greener" buses and serve MULTIPLE bus lines with them on streets that are already paid for -- multi-purpose streets that carry cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and bicycles.
Compared to buses, light rail costs the maximum of money for the minimum of benefit. The Pioneer Press and the Star Tribune don't like to make these comparisons.
Think of the waste.

Great assessment Cash. Also, the 16 services that route as well. The only reason people are calling for a LRT on this path is because here in the metro we have a "bus discrimination" where we feel we are too good for busses and will only ride trains. We don't need to spend 900 million so people don't have to lower themselves to riding a bus.

Shemp wrote:

MORE PERSPECTIVE
One diesel-electric hybrid bus costs $500,000 and it runs on existing streets. One light rail car costs $3 million, and it won't run anywhere until you spend another $800 million or so for rails, roadbed, station shelters, and overhead electric cables.
We can buy 6 hybrid buses for the cost of one light rail car, not to mention the other light rail stuff.
Amazing when you do the math.

The Light Rail cars are manufactured by Bombardier Transportation in Canada and final assembly is in Mexico.

The current fleet of "Go Greener" buses were manufactured by Gillig Corporation in California. New Flyer also manufactures a similar model in Minnesota.

Let's keep the jobs at home.

There are countless buses routes between the downtowns. 16, 50, 94. And just think the bus stops where you want it to stop. LRT has a limited number of stops. So how are you going to get home from the train stop? My guess is you'll ride the bus.

Why not just buy everyone a small scooter, a Mao jacket, a big bag of rice,a hotplate and a subsidized 800 square foot studio apartment downtown complete with a wall portrait of comrade Pogemiller?

Here's the other thing for those worried about the "Carbon Footprint". If the train does get built, at the current pace it wouldn't be fully operational until 2014. Switching to "Go Greener" buses could take place in a matter of months.

Myself wrote:

the governor is extremely popular, it's because he is one of the few local leaders that demonstrates common sense and an interest in truly looking out for the earnings of this states residents.

LOL.

Clinton's approval rating was 65% when he left office. Pawlenty's was 55% a few months ago and likely lower now. Clearly that makes Clinton a better leader than Pawlenty, according to your logic.

So, is Pawlenty for or against spending $70 million on the Central Corridor. Gov. Integrity keeps flip-flopping on it almost daily.

HVH, why can't you answer my questions about transit economics? Do you not actually know how to get those facts? Say it isn't so!

Aaron wrote:

<quoted text>
Great assessment Cash. Also, the 16 services that route as well. The only reason people are calling for a LRT on this path is because here in the metro we have a "bus discrimination" where we feel we are too good for busses and will only ride trains. We don't need to spend 900 million so people don't have to lower themselves to riding a bus.

How often do you ride the bus, specifically route 16?

Seems more like it's a war between Minneapolis and St Paul. It's like St Paul wants one because Minneapolis got one. If St Paul gets one, who's next? Anoka? Eden Prairie?

When does the madness end??

T-Paw is an A-Hole