Smart growth is essential to Marin's future

Full story: Marin Independent Journal

WHEN IT COMES to growth, Marin has some of the toughest planning restrictions you will find anywhere.

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Dissenter San Anselmo, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #1 Jun 23, 2009 Whether it's "smart" growth or "dumb" growth, it all takes more water than we have available. There is very little public support for desalination, and water saved through our conservation efforts shouldn't be used to enable more development. Water is in short supply all over the West, and we need to question the inevitability of growth in regions where it can't be sustained by available natural resources. That's really being smart.
PaulB22 Mill Valley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #2 Jun 23, 2009 These ABAG planners are promoting a communist agenda for the future of Marin. They want everybody to move down to high density shared thinwall communes down on the freeway and next to train tracks . They want to have their new residents take out huge mortgages to live in these condos that they can never own. Even after making payments to the bank for 30 years they will never own the building or the grounds, only the inside walls, but there will be strict covenances and bylaws , dictating no smoking, what color to paint the kitchen, no guests unless they register with the gestapo, no sex after 10:00 pm, no music, no FTA satellite dishes- must subscribe to Comcast, no personal autos and on and on. Then they will dictate that there will be no such thing as self employment, everybody must work for the government/corporations and must commute long distances on socialized commute trains. Only the government officials can live in single family homes away from the noise and pollution of the trains, and only the officials will have personal freedom of choice about what mode of transportation they can use. Communism rears it's ugly head. Now the SMART train may never happen at all, yet they are already building the train oriented developments down in the flats next to the freeway, and Novato and Sonoma county are on water rationing, a very sad future they plan for the new people that they want to import and cram into the central urban corridor which is already built out now. All I can say is we who live up in the hills, canyons, along the bay and coast in single family homes in semi rural or rural zoned areas are very lucky that our lives will not be disrupted by this planned new communist takeover, but I do feel sorry for any new people who they bring in who don't know any better. The cat is out of the ABAG now, and due to the economic downturn, lack of extra water, people getting fed up with spending half of their waking hours sitting in low class public transit machines I predict this new world order of ABAG will go clunk in Marin.
marinbackup guy Since: Dec 08 50 San Rafael, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #3 Jun 23, 2009 Quote: "One result was that Marin, one of the slowest growing counties in California, has experienced some of the worst freeway traffic in the Bay Area in recent years. The new lanes that opened on Highway 101 have eased that congestion, but we essentially have run out of room - and money - for more lanes in the heart of the county." First: "Congestion", more accurately we were ranked 2nd worst in the bay area in 2008, and our ranking steadily increased in the last five years. "...some of the worst..." hardly does it justice. I'm sure that trend will continue! No reason it won't. Second: Your so-called "new lanes" were actually two HOV lane SEGMENTS finally added to eliminate the HOV gaps in Central Marin. But worst IJ, you say we "...have run out of room - and money - for more lanes in the heart of the county." The Transportation Authority of Marin (TAM) had all the chances in the world to add a south bound Auxiliary Lane from North San Pedro Avenue (serving the busy Marin Civic Center) to Central San Rafael, but because of their incompetence and a disconnected and uninvolved Board of Directors failed to scrutinize the plans and insure the addition of this badly needed congestion management feature. TAM and some biased advisors actually did everything they could to insure the continuation of the AM Marin Backup for reasons all too obvious to this person. All of Marin will soon be able to witness and observe TAMs Bike Lane Folly next to 101. We could have had the needed Aux. Lane AND the bike lane, but it turned out to be just another example of our money being mis-managed. Is anyone thinking Grand Jury here??
Marin Voter Mill Valley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #4 Jun 23, 2009 You can call it: Smart Growth,(IJ) Readership Growth, or Green Development -- Its All about (green) money into the pockets of developers, at the "expense" of Marin citizens. Just say no.
John the Revelator Santa Rosa, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #5 Jun 23, 2009 "These ABAG planners are promoting a communist agenda for the future of Marin. They want everybody to move down to high density shared thinwall communes down on the freeway and next to train tracks." More right wing drek that's typical in the comment section of the IJ. The real issue that we should be discussing is the future of energy. We're past peak of global oil production and will eventually see significant shortages of anything that has oil at the bottom, which is pretty much everything that makes our lives convenient. As I've said before, we will all be very glad that SMART exists someday.
Cal native “"In dog years, I'm dead."” Since: Feb 08 2,562 Novato	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #6 Jun 23, 2009 John the Revelator wrote: "These ABAG planners are promoting a communist agenda for the future of Marin. They want everybody to move down to high density shared thinwall communes down on the freeway and next to train tracks." More right wing drek that's typical in the comment section of the IJ. The real issue that we should be discussing is the future of energy. We're past peak of global oil production and will eventually see significant shortages of anything that has oil at the bottom, which is pretty much everything that makes our lives convenient. As I've said before, we will all be very glad that SMART exists someday. I agree with you on smart , but we don't need ABAG housing especially before smart even starts. It would be better or even(smart) to see who rides this and what the effectiveness of the vehicles they eventually purchase will or won't be. There are enough riders between the 2 counties to more than fill the SMART train so why build more housing and bring in more people, that will use more energy and water ect... I'm not saying it might not be needed in the future but it seems silly to build more now with out creating a job base for them as well.
Bouncing Betty Milpitas, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #7 Jun 23, 2009 "These ABAG planners are promoting a communist agenda for the future of Marin. They want everybody to move down to high density shared thinwall communes down on the freeway and next to train tracks." No one's forcing anybody to move anywhere. And besides, where would you rather people live: near the freeway and public transit, or in a housing development that's taken over your once favorite hillside? Be thankful for these tight urban zones that people choose to live in. It secures more open space for you who chooses to live out in the country.
PaulB22 Mill Valley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #8 Jun 23, 2009 Bouncing Betty wrote: "These ABAG planners are promoting a communist agenda for the future of Marin. They want everybody to move down to high density shared thinwall communes down on the freeway and next to train tracks." No one's forcing anybody to move anywhere. And besides, where would you rather people live: near the freeway and public transit, or in a housing development that's taken over your once favorite hillside? Be thankful for these tight urban zones that people choose to live in. It secures more open space for you who chooses to live out in the country. It is funny that these developers have some people brainwashed into thinking that they are doing us all a big favor by cramming in more high density housing boxes down in the flats, and we should thankful that they don't bulldoze our favorite hillside to slap up their crappola. The fact is they cannot touch the rest of Marin and could not build anywhere else than down in the urban corridor. I guess you might be one of the people that they were able to brainwash Betty, I suppose you also believe that trains take trucks off the road in Marin too, even though there are no trains.

Cal native “"In dog years, I'm dead."” Since: Feb 08 2,562 Novato	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #9 Jun 23, 2009 PaulB22 wrote: <quoted text>It is funny that these developers have some people brainwashed into thinking that they are doing us all a big favor by cramming in more high density housing boxes down in the flats, and we should thankful that they don't bulldoze our favorite hillside to slap up their crappola. The fact is they cannot touch the rest of Marin and could not build anywhere else than down in the urban corridor. I guess you might be one of the people that they were able to brainwash Betty, I suppose you also believe that trains take trucks off the road in Marin too, even though there are no trains. you should fill the other half of your glass.
Grunt Daly City, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #10 Jun 23, 2009 It doesn't look like Marin's free from urban sprawl like the article would have you believe. It's a little late to be patting oneself on the backside. Unrelenting traffic- parking issues county-wide -houses so close to one another you can shake hands with your neighbor thru your kitchen window. Kinda like Southern CA. It's a population blur from Southern Marin to Novato.'Smart Growth' is another meaningless liberal catch phrase.
PaulB22 Mill Valley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #11 Jun 23, 2009 Grunt wrote: It doesn't look like Marin's free from urban sprawl like the article would have you believe. It's a little late to be patting oneself on the backside. Unrelenting traffic- parking issues county-wide -houses so close to one another you can shake hands with your neighbor thru your kitchen window. Kinda like Southern CA. It's a population blur from Southern Marin to Novato.'Smart Growth' is another meaningless liberal catch phrase. I agree with you about the urban corridor being built out now in Marin, actually overbuilt down there, so I don't see how these developers think that they cram in more high density housing. Fortunately there is much more to Marin than meets the eye down on the freeway, that packed urban corridor (101) runs through the top edge of Sausalito, the bottom edge of Mill Valley, right through the Corte Madera, San Rafael and Novato. Most of Mill Valley is miles away from the freeway with little roads winding way up in the hills and canyons. The hillside neighborhoods are low density, but they are still squeezing in new high end single family houses on lots that nobody wanted or could afford to before, but it still is very slow growth. Actually the population of all the cities and unincorporated area of Marin except Novato saw a decline in population of 3658 people and Novato gained 4465 people in the US census report from 2000 to 2007. It is quite clear that during that period all the growth in Marin was in Novato, and that is where it will continue to be, even though they are now rationing water in Novato because of overbuilding, they plan on continuing even more. Now they have to cut back on water use by 25 percent, but if they keep going at this fast and furious pace, no doubt that they will have to ration even more until the SCWA finishes the Sonoma water project set to start in 2020. That project will increase delivery of water by 60.4 million gallons per day, 12 times the amount of the proposed 5 mgd desal plant in the MMWD. I think the people of Novato and Sonoma should have focused on getting more water first, then build their commute trains. What is more important, commute trains or enough water to drink and feed the wineries and new TOD projects ? Something has got to give, they made a huge mistake to push their commute train project through first, and now everyone up there will suffer because it, high dendity housing developers too. But ABAG chooses to sweep the water problem under the rug and build until we are all bankrupt for water and money.
Cal native “"In dog years, I'm dead."” Since: Feb 08 2,562 Novato	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #12 Jun 23, 2009 PaulB22 wrote: <quoted text>I agree with you about the urban corridor being built out now in Marin, actually overbuilt down there, so I don't see how these developers think that they cram in more high density housing. Fortunately there is much more to Marin than meets the eye down on the freeway, that packed urban corridor (101) runs through the top edge of Sausalito, the bottom edge of Mill Valley, right through the Corte Madera, San Rafael and Novato. Most of Mill Valley is miles away from the freeway with little roads winding way up in the hills and canyons. The hillside neighborhoods are low density, but they are still squeezing in new high end single family houses on lots that nobody wanted or could afford to before, but it still is very slow growth. Actually the population of all the cities and unincorporated area of Marin except Novato saw a decline in population of 3658 people and Novato gained 4465 people in the US census report from 2000 to 2007. It is quite clear that during that period all the growth in Marin was in Novato, and that is where it will continue to be, even though they are now rationing water in Novato because of overbuilding, they plan on continuing even more. Now they have to cut back on water use by 25 percent, but if they keep going at this fast and furious pace, no doubt that they will have to ration even more until the SCWA finishes the Sonoma water project set to start in 2020. That project will increase delivery of water by 60.4 million gallons per day, 12 times the amount of the proposed 5 mgd desal plant in the MMWD. I think the people of Novato and Sonoma should have focused on getting more water first, then build their commute trains. What is more important, commute trains or enough water to drink and feed the wineries and new TOD projects ? Something has got to give, they made a huge mistake to push their commute train project through first, and now everyone up there will suffer because it, high dendity housing developers too. But ABAG chooses to sweep the water problem under the rug and build until we are all bankrupt for water and money. home owner water use is less than %5 of total state water use. The real water hogs are rice farmers. They over produce , the feds buy the surplus and let it rot to keep prices high enough for them farmers to survive. Farmers can water at night just as home owners are expected to.
Cal native “"In dog years, I'm dead."” Since: Feb 08 2,562 Novato	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #13 Jun 23, 2009 paul here is an example. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi... farmers can save billions of gallons while home owners will be luck to save thousands.
Rolly Rogers Berkeley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #14 Jun 23, 2009 Nobody wants to approach the real problem. Population growth. There will never be enough land if we don't face this issue and dealw ith it. No politician will even mention population growth for fear of being tagged racist.
PaulB22 Mill Valley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #15 Jun 23, 2009 Cal native wrote: paul here is an example. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi... farmers can save billions of gallons while home owners will be luck to save thousands. I do not doubt what you are saying at all about farmers in the central valley that rely on the Shasta aquafier for water, but that does not concern us in the MMWD. The MMWD has a totally independent system that derives it's virgin water from the Mt. Tam and west Marin watersheds. In the early 80's we started using 25 percent of our water from the SCWA, which is not virgin water but recycled sewer water blended in with Russian River water. That was done after the drought of 76-77 to continue rampant development in central Marin after the building moratorium, and now 41 percent of the commercial properties are sitting vacant, so in hindsight it was a mistake to procure additional water from the SCWA. The SCWA is also independent of the Shasta aquafier, but has problems from overbuilding and heavy agricultural demand from wine conglomerants. Big corporations from all over the country are buying up small micro wineries and sucking up a lot water and dumping a lot of pollutants back into the water table that feeds Novato. Water is the most important factor for controlling development. If the farmers are wasting water out in the valley, then they are shorting the rest of the state, but it has no effect on Marin or Sonoma, although we do have a lot of rice rockets 'round here.
Rolly Rogers Berkeley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #16 Jun 23, 2009 PaulB22 wrote: <quoted text>I agree with you about the urban corridor being built out now in Marin, actually overbuilt down there, so I don't see how these developers think that they cram in more high density housing. Fortunately there is much more to Marin than meets the eye down on the freeway, that packed urban corridor (101) runs through the top edge of Sausalito, the bottom edge of Mill Valley, right through the Corte Madera, San Rafael and Novato. Most of Mill Valley is miles away from the freeway with little roads winding way up in the hills and canyons. The hillside neighborhoods are low density, but they are still squeezing in new high end single family houses on lots that nobody wanted or could afford to before, but it still is very slow growth. Actually the population of all the cities and unincorporated area of Marin except Novato saw a decline in population of 3658 people and Novato gained 4465 people in the US census report from 2000 to 2007. It is quite clear that during that period all the growth in Marin was in Novato, and that is where it will continue to be, even though they are now rationing water in Novato because of overbuilding, they plan on continuing even more. Now they have to cut back on water use by 25 percent, but if they keep going at this fast and furious pace, no doubt that they will have to ration even more until the SCWA finishes the Sonoma water project set to start in 2020. That project will increase delivery of water by 60.4 million gallons per day, 12 times the amount of the proposed 5 mgd desal plant in the MMWD. I think the people of Novato and Sonoma should have focused on getting more water first, then build their commute trains. What is more important, commute trains or enough water to drink and feed the wineries and new TOD projects ? Something has got to give, they made a huge mistake to push their commute train project through first, and now everyone up there will suffer because it, high dendity housing developers too. But ABAG chooses to sweep the water problem under the rug and build until we are all bankrupt for water and money. Good post. ABAG does not care about Marin's water problems, only about quotas that are comparative to the other 8 counties in the Association of Bay Area Governments. Marin is considered "open land", not Open Space as we see it. With 85% of Marin as "Open Space" the other counties see this as unfair to them that they have to carry the ever expanding population growth into their high density corridors. ABAG wants Marin to build 2200 units at each SMART train station to alleviate more urban sprawl. Creating high density does not have any affect on urban sprawl. That is a myth. Nowhere has that plan been effective. Just look at Walnut Creek. Let's dump ABAG.
Rolly Rogers Berkeley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #17 Jun 23, 2009 [QUOTE/]Be thankful for these tight urban zones that people choose to live in. It secures more open space for you who chooses to live out in the country.[/QUOTE] Not true Boucing Betty.Nowhere has urban sprawl even slowed as a result of "high density" development. Developers just love those statements from you and others as they nibble away at our open spaces. There is just no evidence to support your statement. ABAG supports your statment and so does Sierra Club who obviously have their heads in the clouds.(I am a Sierra Club member for 35 years)
Rolly Rogers Berkeley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #18 Jun 23, 2009 John the Revelator wrote: "These ABAG planners are promoting a communist agenda for the future of Marin. They want everybody to move down to high density shared thinwall communes down on the freeway and next to train tracks." More right wing drek that's typical in the comment section of the IJ. The real issue that we should be discussing is the future of energy. We're past peak of global oil production and will eventually see significant shortages of anything that has oil at the bottom, which is pretty much everything that makes our lives convenient. As I've said before, we will all be very glad that SMART exists someday. John you just write what SMART tells you. Ah those 30 second sound bites. Did you forget that SMART runs on diesel. Well if they ever get a train. They don't have one right now even though their website insuates they do. Charlie the liar Mc is now focusing on a hybrid train that would operate much like the existing Prius. And the price tag on that baby? And it will be running on petrol. John you just need to read your stuff before you post. You state we are running out of oil but you support a diesel train. Hmm... Typical SMART mentality.
Taking Names Berkeley, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #19 Jun 24, 2009 Growth doesn't have to be inevitable. ABAG's governing board consists of representatives from Bay Area cities and counties, who can be voted out of office by their local constituents if they continue rolling over for ABAG staff planners who seem determined to shove excessive development down our throats. Take a look at who's representing us on ABAG and remind them they can be voted out of office at the next local election if they don't listen up. Then recruit candidates who will tell ABAG's dictatorial planners to take a hike.
Michael San Francisco, CA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #20 Jun 24, 2009 Dissenter wrote: Whether it's "smart" growth or "dumb" growth, it all takes more water than we have available. There is very little public support for desalination, and water saved through our conservation efforts shouldn't be used to enable more development. Water is in short supply all over the West, and we need to question the inevitability of growth in regions where it can't be sustained by available natural resources. That's really being smart. Right on. Sustainability should be the key word for every politician in Marin. And get us out of ABAG.
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