Camm jurors hear details new since 2002 trial

Right. Charles D. Boney (pronounced Bo-Knee). Camm's colleague in the plan to murder Camm's wife and kids. Boney's now convicted and Camm will be (again) soon. Good Riddance to these two murdering sociopaths.

I am hoping for a guilty verdict. Kim, Bradley and Jill's family deserves to see justice served. Although this will not bring their loved ones back, they can rest a little easier at night knowing he will be locked up for the rest of his life, and will not be able to hurt anyone else. Nor will he be able to enjoy any of the things he robbed Kim, Bradley and Jill of. My heart goes out to Kim's family. I hope they will finally be able to find the peace of mind they so deserve.

I think its major stupidity with most people. People that werent there have got the twisted thinking of guilty till proven guilty. Smart people realize its possible that david camm is guilty but it is equally possible that he is not. Now the big thing is that supporters of david camm are in fear themselves of being harmed. If david camm is guilty then he should be punished accordingly. However if he's proven innocent people need to turn off the tv and get a life.

We all know that a person is innocent until proven guilty, but unfortunately our judicial system is not failproof. Undoubtedly people that are innocent have been found guilty and vice versa. I am basing my judgement on what evidence has been presented in the media. It is a known fact that crimes of this type are usually committed by a family member. Obviously you think you are one of the "smart" people? I'm not so sure....

'The philandering is proof?' Irrelevant. Disallowed.
'The sex abuse?' Not according to the Chief Medical Examiner of Kentucky and the 2004 Appeal Court.
'Conspiracy?' Acquitted..
'Consider the timeline that showed he could have left the gym?' Consider, Camm might have had up to 11 witnesses say he did leave.
'He had time to drive home, do the deed and back?' Possibly, just. But to also meet Boney, be sure family would arrive at just the right time, frame Boney, do cleaning, cover clothing seems doubtful. Boney is a good friend if he disposed of the coverings and weapon. Also, Camm would not know he could return to the gym without any sign of what he had done.
'Maybe we're supposed to think that, as that was what the duo planned all summer?' They could reasonably expect that their plan might be discovered. There's no proof this plan existed. Driving to and from the gym it could have come unstuck, apart from all the rest..
'What about the murder weapon?' Possibly. If where Boney or Camm disposed of it is discovered.
'The Mattingly evidence then?' It convinced Mr Henderson, but I could not say why. It assumes Boney couldn't have misled his girlfriend and his mother. Boney's comment about Camm did stop their questions.
'The telephone log?' Like the suspicions about the insurance policies, the evidence is unfounded.
'Is there proof Mr Camm was at the house?' Those 4 specks again.
'And 2,000 brass micro-specks?' Not proven to come from a gun.
'But Camm lied?' His statement to police provided no ready explanation of the few Area 30 specks. The state chose therefore, to take the position that he lied. Interestingly, he did not change his story in the face of the horrific implication drawn from them.
'How about the blood on Camm's shoe?' Less convincing than those 3 or 4 blood specks that appear to have exceeded 100ft sec in area 30. Certainly inconclusive.
'How about those 3 to 8 specks?' Yes, this is the crux of the case. They are too tiny and few to be spotted at the gym, or by Boney, or Camm. And yet plenty to prove Camm was present at Jill's murder. Would one speck do? Not if one considers cases like Sion Jenkins, 150 specks. Or some expert opinions. Even sneezes can exceed 145ftSec.
'Rusty?' He acted reasonably, faced with what Boney was doing to his people.
'What about the fingerprints that were not identified?' Indeed.
'There's so much evidence?' As in all wrongful convictions. Over a million dollars was thrown at this unpopular philanderer. People have reasons for believing him guilty.
'What other explanation could there be for this crime?' The obvious one. Some experts have inferred too much from too little this time. And the deterioration common amongst violent, repeat offenders made this attack worse than the ones Boney has made on similar women previously.
Sorry, cannot find anything conclusive linking Mr Camm and this crime. At best this conviction seems unsafe. I, too am viewing this through the internet.

This cements my opinion in the Camm case as it is my first time to document my feelings.

I hope the case is taken to the Indiana State Supreme Court or the Warrick County Judge will take the following into conisideration before a ruling:

Since the Judge allowed statements to be given by the prosecution stating that Camm molested his daughter, Jill, the jury weighed heavy on that to convict Camm. However, The presecution never charged Camm with molestation which is really their job to do if they feel Camm is guilty of that crime.
Evidently there is no real proof he did molest Jill, otherwise the prosectution would have leveled that charge as well in the beginning.

How can you be covicted of something you have never been formally charged with at the beginning?

Secondly, the State of Indiana has two men in prison who have been convicted of the same crime. My quesion is who really did it? Both did not pull the trigger. Who did?

Charles Boney.

Jim wrote:

'The philandering is proof?' Irrelevant. Disallowed.
'The sex abuse?' Not according to the Chief Medical Examiner of Kentucky and the 2004 Appeal Court.
'Conspiracy?' Acquitted..
'Consider the timeline that showed he could have left the gym?' Consider, Camm might have had up to 11 witnesses say he did leave.
'He had time to drive home, do the deed and back?' Possibly, just. But to also meet Boney, be sure family would arrive at just the right time, frame Boney, do cleaning, cover clothing seems doubtful. Boney is a good friend if he disposed of the coverings and weapon. Also, Camm would not know he could return to the gym without any sign of what he had done.
'Maybe we're supposed to think that, as that was what the duo planned all summer?' They could reasonably expect that their plan might be discovered. There's no proof this plan existed. Driving to and from the gym it could have come unstuck, apart from all the rest..
'What about the murder weapon?' Possibly. If where Boney or Camm disposed of it is discovered.
'The Mattingly evidence then?' It convinced Mr Henderson, but I could not say why. It assumes Boney couldn't have misled his girlfriend and his mother. Boney's comment about Camm did stop their questions.
'The telephone log?' Like the suspicions about the insurance policies, the evidence is unfounded.
'Is there proof Mr Camm was at the house?' Those 4 specks again.
'And 2,000 brass micro-specks?' Not proven to come from a gun.
'But Camm lied?' His statement to police provided no ready explanation of the few Area 30 specks. The state chose therefore, to take the position that he lied. Interestingly, he did not change his story in the face of the horrific implication drawn from them.
'How about the blood on Camm's shoe?' Less convincing than those 3 or 4 blood specks that appear to have exceeded 100ft sec in area 30. Certainly inconclusive.
'How about those 3 to 8 specks?' Yes, this is the crux of the case. They are too tiny and few to be spotted at the gym, or by Boney, or Camm. And yet plenty to prove Camm was present at Jill's murder. Would one speck do? Not if one considers cases like Sion Jenkins, 150 specks. Or some expert opinions. Even sneezes can exceed 145ftSec.
'Rusty?' He acted reasonably, faced with what Boney was doing to his people.
'What about the fingerprints that were not identified?' Indeed.
'There's so much evidence?' As in all wrongful convictions. Over a million dollars was thrown at this unpopular philanderer. People have reasons for believing him guilty.
'What other explanation could there be for this crime?' The obvious one. Some experts have inferred too much from too little this time. And the deterioration common amongst violent, repeat offenders made this attack worse than the ones Boney has made on similar women previously.
Sorry, cannot find anything conclusive linking Mr Camm and this crime. At best this conviction seems unsafe. I, too am viewing this through the internet.

RIGHT ON!!!

Anyone who can reasonably think can see that David Camm did not do this. Charles Boney is a monsterous murderer.

david camm killed his family. boney was his right hand man. they are murderers. his wife and two beautiful young children, from my community are in the f-ing ground. anyone who says he is innocent is probably related to him. we have spent enough money trying him twice, whether he pulled the trigger or just paid boney so he could say he didnt do it, he killed his family. let the conviction stand , henderson did a great job getting him, and he needs to stay where he is. much sympathy to the family of kim and the kids. i think of you and yours often. they are the victims here.

Nancy L Joyce wrote:

<quoted text> RIGHT ON!!!

all the internet info is not straight and forward. i live in this community and have closely watched and listened to both trials, he was convicted twice by a jury of his peers, once in new albany, once in another indiana town. his kids attended school with my niece and nephew. we saw these people all the time in the community. he did it. there is not a doubt in my mind he is guilty. he not only murdered his wife and two innocent kids, but he also molested his daughter, his wife was leaving him because she found out. he was afraid his state police reputation would be drug through the mud if news got out so he and boney killed her. the dumbass boney even wrote a book about the killing while awaiting trial. it was like the last nail in the coffin. it is a disgrace that he is from here. it is a vicious, well planned murder, that he is steadily trying to escape. incase murdering wasnt enough to show he didnt love his wife, he also had numerous affairs in the years prior to the murders. he is a manipulating abuser of authority and worst of all a CHILD KILLER. we often drive by their gravesites, and it saddens us to think of the lives lost. at least they are together in heaven. may they rest in peace.

A missing link?
The author of the book ‘One Deadly Night’ was unconvinced by the trials and convictions of Mr Camm. So are most people who study the case with objectivity and detachment, or so it seems to me. So why is Mr Henderson so convinced of Camm’s guilt? The answer may be that he is not.

I read of Chief Justice Wade that he gave promotions according to success rates - simple as that. This may strike the uninitiated as corrupt. However I have been talking to someone connected to the legal profession in the UK who confirmed to me the strength of belief in the adversarial system amongst criminal lawyers. This is one of the general similarities between the US and UK systems. They are both based on case law too, not codified or ‘Roman’.

This may be crucially significant in the Camm case. I think the case of Mr Camm should be studied by all law enforcement personnel, criminal justice lawyers, jurists and anyone connected with forensics.

The debates that go on at law school appear to lead lawyers to accept that adversarial means just that - even if a defence lawyer knows someone is guilty of murder and is escaping purely on a technicality, the defence lawyer will see it as dishonest, corrupt and a discredit to the criminal justice system, not to ensure the defendant is acquitted.(If that is what the technicality leads to).

This works both ways. When Mr Henderson took over from Mr Faith, I remember thinking how critical his decision was and how hard it was to go against the Faith line on the case. It was not reassuring read the advice Mr Henderson seemed to receive from the case detectives.

It would not surprise me if Mr Henderson believes that Mr Camm may be entirely innocent. It is my belief that Henderson would see his duty as being to the adversarial principle and not to personally decide as to Mr Camm’s guilt or innocence.

This case will never go away and nor should it. There is no end of lessons in it for anyone interested in justice systems. It raises basic questions about our legal framework. Questions like :
1. Is it not the case that many criminals escape not by their own wits, but through the intelligence of those paid to defend them? It is the intelligent presentation of dishonest arguments that often results in a guilty person going free. If an accused person is guilty, does it really serve the interests of justice that they are not be made to keep this from their defence lawyer too? This is apparently resolved in legal debates to the satisfaction of lawyers, but justice has to belong to us all.
(Another question is: should the punishment fit the crime, or the intervention fit the criminal? This question is not relevant here though).

Wade:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...
“As a whole, defense lawyers engaged against his prosecutors achieved one of the lowest acquittal rates in the country”. But justice?
Camm:
http://www.wlky.com/davidcamm/index.html

I did not write this quote.

Someone used my name.

Nancy L. Joyce

I am waiting for the Supreme Court to rule.
My opinon is that David Camm is Not Guilty.

I did not write this comment on #11.

I believe David Camm is Not Guilty.

Nancy L. Joyce

I don't know if he is guilty or not, but I have doubts. What I don't understand is, why didn't the testimony of all those witnesses who said he didn't leave the ballgame, carry more weight with the jury?

For years I have wondered too.(I was mainly looking at Brit cases). This ex-cop left the gym, was gone barely long enough to commit the crime and returned to the gym in the fairly certain knowledge he could execute his family in 15 (-20?) mins and leave no trace of what he had done? He was certain to the minute of his family’s arrival? He would hardly have had time to dispose of the murder weapon, so did the jury presume an accomplice from the then unidentified prints? With clothing to protect him that he also disposed of? If Boney helped, they had time to meet up too? How did Camm know a neighbour or family member would not see him and wave “hi”? Or “hi, shouldn’t you be at the gym?” Now we know Boney was there of course. How did Camm know nobody would happen to say ‘hey, where’s Dave?”

Camm had blood spots visible on his shirt, although I have been unable to tell categorically which is “Area 30”. Even the prosecutor, if I have remembered correctly, describes them as a few spots that are barely noticeable. So,(the case goes) that is why he walked into the gym and nobody noticed them (including Camm and any accomplice). The Area 30 blood spots appear to me to be the complete substance of the case against Camm. For me, to this day, this is the most disturbing case regarding possible miscarriage of justice. My interest in true crime has dwindled and I have moved on to other interests,(mercifully:-) I‘m not an expert.
http://www.justicefordavidcamm.com/

I have always wanted to hear the judge’s summing up. The timing of the trial and the evidence that was admitted seems to have been aspects of the mess.
http://www.wlky.com/davidcamm/7778376/detail....

D Camm was convicted on 3/Mar/06. Boney in January 06. Again, if my memory serves me, the Jurors were not allowed to consider that Boney, the violent criminal with the shoe fetish and (alleged) penchant for women of similar appearance, committed the crime without Camm’s assistance. I certainly wondered if they really considered he may be completely innocent. Obviously the author of ‘One Deadly Night’ didn’t!
http://www.wlky.com/davidcamm/index.html
Click on “images from the Camm case” and you can see the t-shirt with the blood stains. They are frames 26 & 27,(not to be confused with Boney’s shirt, 9).

Some think the case of David Camm
Was little more than just a sham
They worked so hard and won the day
But some remember JonBenet.
Both times the prosecutions started
When noone knew who had departed
In Britain we are all so shocked
So many cases are defrocked
The USA? Lets hope they‘re right
Reviewing brings too much to light.

http://www.justiceforsionjenkins.org.uk/maind...
http://www.justiceforsionjenkins.org.uk/

I’m the Jim (as above) on this thread. Sorry if the bad wording in my post (#12) led some to think I had changed my opinion. My point was that it is reasonable to surmise that the prosecutor’s approach would not rely on his own judgement of guilt or innocence, but he would do his job and rely on the system.
I try to keep an open mind.

The author of One Deadly Night clearly does not believe (or at least has very serious doubts) that Mr Camm is guilty. Sorry (Nancy), I don’t know why I use ambiguous wording on this thread!:-)

I happened to find this interesting, but cannot vouch for it. Another interesting perspective..
http://www.truthinjustice.org/cops.htm