Arizona 'Sweat Lodge' Survivor Speaks Out

At this early stage, with as little information as we do have, I will preface what I say with this: as more information comes in, I reserve the right to change my views if necessary.

Now, having said that, everyone involved in this situation was at fault, but mostly the victims. Let's look at the facts:
1. Ray has an ego problem. He's not here to help people, he's here to have people love him.
2. Anyone who would allow this quack to lead them into this type of situation isn't thinking clearly.
3. Anyone who succumbs to peer pressure while others are dying around them, clearly isn't that bright.

These people knew they had the right to leave. I don't care how much Ray chided them, your health is more important than your standing with a bunch of people who you may or may not see again. Plus, for $9,000 a pop, I'm calling the shots.

Oh, and just so people understand, vomiting is NEVER a good thing. Some may say, "well, if you swallowed poison or OD'd it's a good thing," to which I would reply, "The ingestion of poison is not a good thing. The vomiting was necessary because of a bad situation." If the poison wasn't ingested (and understand, I'm not placing blame here, sometimes shit happens) then the vomiting wouldn't be needed.

So, what does this teach us? Two things:
1. If you feel sick, go to a doctor.
2. If you want to try some alternative medicine, make sure it's being done by a licensed professional. If there is no such license, wait until one is approved.

It's somewhat like the accounting balance sheet, what goes out, must come in, everything has to balance, so, if you're sitting in a 120 degree room, sweating profusely, without a large water intake, something is going to give. You sweat to try to cool the body, if you fail to replete the fluid lost, you'll hit a barrier, and hit it hard.

As long as one is sweating, and repleting the lost fluid, one should be able to sustain themselves, once the sweating process stops, the body enters a very scary, deadly situation of heat stroke. You can have the body temperature go right off the chart. Death ensues.

These people had enough money to pay for this event, one would think, they would be smart enough to understand how things work, but obviously, they don't.

I would have thought the USA was smart enough not to elect a communist as president, but I'm also wrong there.

One more thought, James Arthur Ray had 21 people at this event, each one paid him $9000.00, James Ray made $189,000.00 by teaching this event!!! Too bad, his ego got in the way, that 189K will be a down payment on his legal fees.........

I just heard on the radio that:

- he had them sweat for two hours straight;

and

- he actually had them fast without food OR WATER for 36 hours before then.

This is sounding less like negligence and more like murder all the time!

And here's the best part:

Ray had a conference call with the survivors where he told them he had a medium contact the victims and they reported back that they were happy that they're dead.

So apparently everything is now cool.

Jason Lee wrote:

I just heard on the radio that:
- he had them sweat for two hours straight;
and
- he actually had them fast without food OR WATER for 36 hours before then.
This is sounding less like negligence and more like murder all the time!
And here's the best part:
Ray had a conference call with the survivors where he told them he had a medium contact the victims and they reported back that they were happy that they're dead.
So apparently everything is now cool.

Tell me where you heard that, I've got to read that article.
This douchebag actually told the survivors he had a seance performed? Apparently his delusions have no bounds.

Ray says this has been a "difficult" time, but he plans to continue with his "work"? And the sweat lodges won't close? He may have a "difficult" time finding any takers the next go round - and after the investigations, possible charges, and law suits commense.

Apparently a small thing such as 3 people's deaths and many injured doesn't faze this man and his delusions.

Hold please wrote:

<quoted text>
Tell me where you heard that, I've got to read that article.
This douchebag actually told the survivors he had a seance performed? Apparently his delusions have no bounds.

I heard it on Public Radio.

I think the show was "Here and Now":

http://www.hereandnow.org/

I have found New Agers to be usually from families that abused them as children; hypocrites who act like the Eloi in that scene from the old movie "The Time Machine" who had no reaction whatsoever to one of their own (Weena) drowning in a fast-moving stream, and an outsider (Rod Taylor) had to rescue her): They feel that helping another person immerses them in that person's bad Karma!; hypocrites who talk about caring, and sharing and can't be bothered to visit one of their own (a former woman friend) in the hospital when she most needed them; and HUCKSTERS who use the New Age philosophy to sucker their fellow believers and people looking into their pseudo-belief system out of their hard-earned money. In the Albuquerque area, they were trying to sell land
in the middle of a river to that same woman member who was hospitalized! When hard times hit, their leader in the Albuquerque Metro area SOLD ALL HIS LANDS and left the state, leaving his investors with a bunch of low-value land, with no roads, no water or utilities, but still being hit by rising taxes. The New Age thing is no better than MOST of the existing religions- a bunch of hucksters fleecing their followers out of their hard-earned bucks.

Skeptic - do your math and get your facts straight. Not 21 people but 64 paid $9690 each. Also, where do you get off calling the Prez a communist? What's that got to do the discussion?Seems to me you know nothing about accounting AND politics!

Jason Lee wrote:

<quoted text>
I heard it on Public Radio.
I think the show was "Here and Now":
http://www.hereandnow.org/

Excellent. Thanks.

Hold please wrote:

<quoted text>
Excellent. Thanks.

Actually one of the survivors was on the Today show this morning (10/23) and confirmed that they really said that on this call.

Umm... exactly WHO forced these people to do this? Who took their car keys and locked them up and FORCED them to do this?

A rational person would have just left and demanded a refund on the way out. A hopeless, emotionally bankrupt moron would stick around and subject himself to abuse for some inexplicable reason.

Jason Lee wrote:

I just heard on the radio that:
- he had them sweat for two hours straight;
and
- he actually had them fast without food OR WATER for 36 hours before then.
This is sounding less like negligence and more like murder all the time!
And here's the best part:
Ray had a conference call with the survivors where he told them he had a medium contact the victims and they reported back that they were happy that they're dead.
So apparently everything is now cool.

This reminds me of those stupid EST seminars that were taking place back in the 70's. Why do people fall for such quackery? Are they really THAT stupid?? I guess so if they're willing to pay a guy $9000 and then subject themselves to physical and emotional abuse.

Mitch Rapp wrote:

Umm... exactly WHO forced these people to do this? Who took their car keys and locked them up and FORCED them to do this?
A rational person would have just left and demanded a refund on the way out. A hopeless, emotionally bankrupt moron would stick around and subject himself to abuse for some inexplicable reason.
<quoted text>

Probably true, but remember these people had fallen for the "self help" crap this guy was pushing. People that have that frame of mind already, are probably more susceptible to being manipulated anyway. They saw this bozo as an "expert" and believed they should listen to him. A truly rational person would have told him to stick it, demanded (or sued for if necessary) a refund and gotten the hack out of there.

Here I was envisioning a *nice/exclusive* locale ~~ it is what it is, a sweat hut!

Mitch Rapp wrote:

Umm... exactly WHO forced these people to do this? Who took their car keys and locked them up and FORCED them to do this?
A rational person would have just left and demanded a refund on the way out. A hopeless, emotionally bankrupt moron would stick around and subject himself to abuse for some inexplicable reason.
<quoted text>

So ... you are blaming the victims for this tragedy are you? Then let's consider the concept of "bankrupt moron" ... do you blame the victims of Bernie Madoff also? He's the financial equivalent of James Ray and Bernie got caught eventually and so will Ray. But the victims will still be victims despite what you call them.

Viva wrote:

Here I was envisioning a *nice/exclusive* locale ~~ it is what it is, a sweat hut!

It IS a lovely place though sometimes a little busy during tourist season(s). This "sweat box" incident is, as many others have now said NOT something we are known for here. New Agey, mostly harmless, friendly ... those are better descriptions of us who live and work here. James Ray has swept into town many times throwing his importance around and Sedona in general did not notice. But economics being what they are, people have to pay their bills here too and so he rented a place that perhaps needed the money. Ray had been turned down many times by other local resorts that are more well known. Good for them. Sadly, a lovely place that is serene and welcoming hosted Ray's event and when it all went badly he skipped town leaving others to clean up the mess. But Sedona lives on and should remain know for all the good things it offers. So don't despair and don't stay away!

These people knew they were in immediate physical danger and should have heeded their own sense of self preservation.

Madoff didn't kill anyone and his "victims" were never in imminent physical danger.

Let's not compare apples and oranges OK?

Will Walden wrote:

<quoted text>
So ... you are blaming the victims for this tragedy are you? Then let's consider the concept of "bankrupt moron" ... do you blame the victims of Bernie Madoff also? He's the financial equivalent of James Ray and Bernie got caught eventually and so will Ray. But the victims will still be victims despite what you call them.

Mitch Rapp wrote:

These people knew they were in immediate physical danger >>> YOU think so - THEY did not! <<< and should have heeded their own sense of self preservation. Madoff didn't kill anyone and his "victims" were never in imminent physical danger.
Let's not compare apples and oranges OK?
<quoted text>

OK then let's compare apples to apples. From Wikipedia ...
>>> Peer pressure refers to the influence exerted by a peer group in encouraging a person to change his or her attitudes, values, or behavior in order to conform to group norms. Peer pressure can cause people to do things they would not normally do, e.g. take drugs, smoke, get a girlfriend, marry, have a job, get children, buy expensive items they don't really need (cars, houses, boats), etc. <<<
And of course stay in an unhealthy or even dangerous situation if part of that group even to the point of defending the actions of that group. Ever heard of the "Stockholm Syndrome?".
>>>Madoff didn't kill anyone and his "victims" were never in imminent physical danger.<<<
Are you really sure? How many of his victimes, and there are thousands, committed suicide after losing their life's savings???

Suicide is a choice. Homicide -- which you claim is what happened here -- is not.

Will Walden wrote:

<quoted text>
Ever heard of the "Stockholm Syndrome?".
>>>Madoff didn't kill anyone and his "victims" were never in imminent physical danger.<<<
Are you really sure? How many of his victimes, and there are thousands, committed suicide after losing their life's savings???