Church Can't Pay Bills After Pastor Allegedly Steals From Congregation

Local Nazarene churches to not own their own property. It is all owned by the International Church organization. That way to try and prevent this type of thing occurring.
The books are to audited every year by the District level officials. And....yes the pastors are strongly discouraged from handling funds that come to the church. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the church was closed by higher ups to try and clean up this mess.

I still don't understand why the GPNB would loan money to this preacher against the parsonage when he didn't own it. IMHO the bank took the risk and should have to take the fall. I hope in the long run they are able to save the church.

the only way for all this was to happen was by the shister ways that has almost closed down alot of churches. they are all under scrutiny.

the Baptist
and catholics for molesting and homosexuality,
the holiness for stealing, and alcoholism,
so I just wonder what john Calvin
and john wesly think about today.

and then thier are us the christians who sit on these things and talk about people.

makes you wonder were the church world is today.

maybe we could pray more. just a thought.

Jaz wrote:

Local Nazarene churches to not own their own property. It is all owned by the International Church organization. That way to try and prevent this type of thing occurring.
The books are to audited every year by the District level officials. And....yes the pastors are strongly discouraged from handling funds that come to the church. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the church was closed by higher ups to try and clean up this mess.

The churches are not owned by the international organization, they are owned by the District. Sayre was owned by the Southwest Oklahoma District. The reason is to prevent churches from taking local property if they get disgruntled and want to split from the denomination and start their own church. That was on the books at the conception of the church in 1908.

The local Books are not auooks are not audited by the District. It is in the Manual they are to be audited but it is left up to the local church. I doubt that was done here.

The "higher-ups" are very concerned about what happened here and there has been some changes made with the Southwest Oklahoma District to prevent this from happening to other churches. But they did not step in and close the church. Actually it was left up the the local congregation as to what they wanted to do. They voted to close.

Sayre Citizen wrote:

I still don't understand why the GPNB would loan money to this preacher against the parsonage when he didn't own it. IMHO the bank took the risk and should have to take the fall. I hope in the long run they are able to save the church.

Actually the GPNB did not loan the money against the parsonage, that was done by a lender outside the state. The pastor is alledged to have used forged documents to show the local church and the Southwest District had approved it. I understand that loan was absorbed by the lender.

I believe one or more of the local banks hold the lean on the local church - which may or may not include the parsonage. Allegedly the church was in a building program and the board approved a loan for that improvement. Those funds were allegedly misappropriated by the pastor and hid from the local church. It is further alleged that he forged board minutes to get more money. As I understand the original loan was for around $80,000.00 and was expanded to over $200,000.00.

Because the local church had approved the original loan the lender believes they should have known about the extension. Where the loan on the parsonage was clearly fraud, the bank has a legitimate defense in opposing fraud on the building loan. I understand there are other claims on Credit Cards and smaller loans that the local church would have trouble defending.

As the church now stands, or did stand, they just did not have the funds to defend these claims against the lenders and card companies. Again I understand that in disbanding the trustees would be protected from claims as the church was a genuine non-profit corporation. With the dissolving of the corporation the assets go to pay off any outstanding claims. It looks like the local bank(s) will get the local property as there are not enough funds nor is the value of the property enough to cover the cost of the loans, cards and other items the pastor obtained in the church name.

So are you saying the church could go up for forclosure auction?

moodymom249 wrote:

So are you saying the church could go up for forclosure auction?

It is not what I think, it is the facts. The church made up of the members that were left voted to disband the church. That wasn’t the only option but it was their choice. What this is similar to is ID theft where someone steals your SS number and applies for credit and runs up debts in your name. When the creditors come after you they are not going to take your word and drop the collection. They began collections against you, take you to court and if you do not defend yourself successfully they get judgments against you.

To defend yourself cost money, lots of money. That is why identity theft insurance is a big thing, ever hear of life lock? That is the position the church found themselves in. And as I understand they did not have insurance coverage to protect them against this type of fraud.

Again the information I heard was while most of the fraud they had a good defense for, they were out on the limb so to speak on the local loan for the building project because the board had approved it and had let the pastor deal with the bank on the loan. The original loan they were aware of, the second and bigger loan they were not aware of.

So with everything considered they just did not have the money to defend against all the claims that were against them. The only funds available were being eaten up in operating expense and the value of the property could not cover the loan at the local bank(s). In short there was no way to keep the church and make it work.

When they met to consider the options, I am told they notified the bank they would willingly release title to the bank to cover the debt. The bank held a lien on the Church but not the Parsonage. The church offered to throw the parsonage in as well. If the property would sell for the appraised value it would still leave the congregation owing over $100,000.00 and no building or infrastructure to conduct a church.

I don’t know if the bank accepted their offer.
They could have filled for bankruptcy and rented or acquired other facilities and continued on, but the ordeal had devastated what was left of the congregation.

no this is the only time this has been done went there ten years before this pastor came in

Oversight is the key. Tim Zeman even mortgaged the church parsonage. Where was the church board?
This is all very sad.

Dalelee2 wrote:

Oversight is the key. Tim Zeman even mortgaged the church parsonage. Where was the church board?
This is all very sad.

The bank ought to have to eat this loan.

Dalelee2 wrote:

Oversight is the key. Tim Zeman even mortgaged the church parsonage. Where was the church board?
This is all very sad.

i seen the place up for sell sad ive never in my life seen a church for sell..whats wronge with this world anyways..

beside your spelling, People is the answer to that Question.

thier is None good no not One

Bobby W wrote:

beside your spelling, People is the answer to that Question.
thier is None good no not One

How can you correct someone? Then type something like that.(their not thier)(is none good no not one)???

dumb@$$!!!

You're both wrong, it is -(There is None good, no not one.)

But seriously people --- Who Cares??

If a person is making a point don't criticize the spelling look at the point they're making. If it is a good point praise them and if it isn't then criticize that, but to just keep a thread going by making others feel bad because they spell or punctuate badly is just stupid...yeah Thrill!! Hear that?? Stupid!!!

heck ask the ole preach to pay the bills after all,,,,,,,,,,he has the money !!!!!!!!

He will pay...just got word he was sentenced to 10 year and has to pay back $170,000.00. Just look..kecofm.com has the news.

Now maybe the church can reopen, but I'd get some better board members.

moodymom249 wrote:

He will pay...just got word he was sentenced to 10 year and has to pay back $170,000.00. Just look..kecofm.com has the news.
Now maybe the church can reopen, but I'd get some better board members.

I spoke with a exmember yesterday and she said the church would never open again.Also said he was sentenced to 25 year with 15 of the years suspened and could be out in 3 years on probation.She did not say any thing about a pay back though.

Live In Sayre wrote:

<quoted text>I spoke with a exmember yesterday and she said the church would never open again.Also said he was sentenced to 25 year with 15 of the years suspened and could be out in 3 years on probation.She did not say any thing about a pay back though.

You need to go to kecofm.com and click on local news. They have the story, even about the money he has to pay back.

moodymom249 wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to go to kecofm.com and click on local news. They have the story, even about the money he has to pay back.

Ya,ll I seen it on news channel 4 yesterday.

ha i knew that fat pig was and his fat wife were up t sumthin