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Zoo Unhappy With Some Fair Exhibits

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BooHoo

Tulsa, OK

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#61
Oct 6, 2008
 
Oh boo hoo...can we find something else to whine about. You people are as bad as my kids when it comes to whining....jeez.
Duh

Tulsa, OK

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#62
Oct 6, 2008
 
Like you are any better.. Your whining over our whining!
BooHoo wrote:
Oh boo hoo...can we find something else to whine about. You people are as bad as my kids when it comes to whining....jeez.
Jake C

Louisville, KY

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#63
Oct 6, 2008
 
i would like to say that i'm a proud tulsan and people seem to have forgotten that we were elected america's favorite zoo in 2004. they beat every other zoo in america. they won based on public perception and quality of the environment. dressing chimps in costumes at the fair and charging $25 for a photo has to be stressful for the animal. they don't appear to get a fair amount of rest or time to "monkey around".

overall, i think the public perception of what is taking place at the zoo wouldn't be so bad if we knew where the money is going. for lack of a better description, and because she posted no credentials, the carnie said the zoo was mad because someone else was making money. this is completely capitalistic and unfair to the animals. if 500 pictures are taken a day, they are clearing 12,500 daily. where's the benefit for conservation of the animals through donations or tulsa's roads through taxes.

the zoo presented a professional arguement and was responded to with a "nanny nanny boo boo".

thanks,
jake c.
SAH

Tulsa, OK

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#64
Oct 6, 2008
 
I have noticed that most people who have taken offense at this article do not seem to have any defensive stance about the fair. Instead of actually creating an argument that defends the Fair's practices--which is the question at hand--they instead are reduced to making attacks on the Tulsa Zoo. In other words, people, very few of you have presented an argument at all. You haven't actually made any cogent statement regarding the Fair. You just don't seem to like the Tulsa Zoo. Which is neither here nor there. But, I guess that's about what I expect reasoning-wise from someone attempting to defend the Fair.
Sam

Tulsa, OK

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#65
Oct 6, 2008
 
Neither have you... Soooo your point is???
SAH wrote:
I have noticed that most people who have taken offense at this article do not seem to have any defensive stance about the fair. Instead of actually creating an argument that defends the Fair's practices--which is the question at hand--they instead are reduced to making attacks on the Tulsa Zoo. In other words, people, very few of you have presented an argument at all. You haven't actually made any cogent statement regarding the Fair. You just don't seem to like the Tulsa Zoo. Which is neither here nor there. But, I guess that's about what I expect reasoning-wise from someone attempting to defend the Fair.
Disturbed Fair Go-er

Tulsa, OK

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#66
Oct 6, 2008
 
Hate the zoo for making a comment? Take a look at these links about the very folks at the fair and then decide what may have motivated the zoo to say something.

What the news story DID'T mention is that these folks, now called the "Texas Wildlife Center," used to be known as the "Amarillo Wildlife Refuge."

Think the chimp looked happy?

See how they treat these animals when they're NOT sitting on your lap at the state fair for $20 and likely the Texas State Fair later this month.

View behind the scenes footage of primates at the State Fair when they're not "smiling for photos" and then ask yourself...what is exploitation?

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp...


Furthermore, copy this link and read for yourself about the chimp fair folks, then make up your own minds:
http://www.amarillo.com/stories/033006/new_43...

By the way, doesn't the photo of the man in the above link look eerily similar to the man AT THE FAIR with the chimp?!?! HMMM....

Oh, and lastly, a smiling chimp is NOT a HAPPY chimp, but rather a fearful one. Learn about chimps from an expert like Jane Goodall and copy this link.

http://www.janegoodall.org/chimp_central/cons...

Educate yourselves people!! Such ignorance continues to allow these lowlifes to make nice, and mind you cash (i.e.untaxable) INCOME every YEAR!!!!

Sick yet?

KUDDOS to the Tulsa Zoo for taking a stand, sadly it may have fell on deaf ears based on some of these postings :-(
concerned animal lover

United States

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#67
Oct 6, 2008
 
I'm appalled that anyone would compare a nice zoo like ours with some body like that guy at the fair. I've never visited a zoo that presented wild animals as pets or dressed them in clothes like a human child. The sad thing is what will happen when that poor chimp is older and unable to fit into it's own species society and is too large dangerous and aggressive for ours? The long range welfare of those animals was never taken into account, Sad and sad that the fairgoers were not presented with the reality of what a performing chimp or other primates life eventually becomes.
OMG

Tulsa, OK

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#68
Oct 6, 2008
 
You people will bitch about anything.

Guess what....gas is under $3/gallon...I'll bet somebody will find a reason to whine about it...
Ed Z

Bartlesville, OK

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#69
Oct 6, 2008
 
There is absolutely NO WAY you can compare Tulsa Zoo to the Tulsa State Fair. The zoo is a place to learn about wildlife and the amazing creatures we share the earth with. The fair is a place to enjoy rides and eat greasy turkey legs.
If you've ever taken your kids to a zoo class or have spoken to a zookeeper after an animal presentation you'll know the difference between a zoo and a traveling animal exhibit at a fair. Zoo animals are treated with love and respect by educated people. They don't dress their primates up in clothes for photo ops!
And as for the zoo being sore because the fair people are making money... HA! Do you think a city-owned zoo makes money? Look at our city's budget and tell me with a straight face that you think the zoo turns a profit. If you don't believe me, give City Hall a call and ask for the numbers.
I'm willing to put money down that most of those in this forum who have negative things to say about zoos haven't been to one in a long time. They have Education departments and veterinarians on staff. These people know what they're doing and they do a fine job, so learn a little about a topic before you spout off from the anonymity of your PC.
Signed,
Longtime zoo supporter and proud Tulsan
Ed Z

Bartlesville, OK

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#70
Oct 6, 2008
 
P.S.- I quote from the article: "Exhibitors say their organizations are non-profits that educate the public about endangered species." Then Jamie Palazzo from Wild Cat Adventures says, "...so maybe they're just jealous because we're making money and they're not."

Well, which is it? Are you a non-profit or are you making money? I would love to hear an explanation for this blatant contradiction.
Sid

Tulsa, OK

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#71
Oct 7, 2008
 
Whether they live in a zoo, an aquarium, housed at the fair, or roaming a national forest - all animals are wild at heart and ANYTHING with a mouth can bite! No matter what you work with, or how 'safe' you believe the situation to be, there is always a chance that something can go wrong. That's why, if you watch Wild Wednesday on Channel 6, anytime you see big cats/bears/elephants/chimps with their keepers there is always a barrier between them for protection. That is also why there are giant moats, if not incredibly thick glass and/or bars between visitors and the animals.
And even IF the animals at the fair are being properly taken care of OFF display there is still the stress factor. A couple years ago I saw two blue and gold macaws on the runway that were almost picked clean of feathers. Birds do this when they are stressed out and it takes a long period of neglect/illness to be picked almost bald. At least the animals at the zoo have a CHOICE to go where they feel more comfortable (like off exhibit).
Educating people about animals is a wonderful thing but it is important not to send the wrong message.
Smacky

Tulsa, OK

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#72
Oct 7, 2008
 
You know, just out of curiosity, I would love to have this fair man tested for his animal knowledge. Give him a basic test on chimp nutrition, social structure, native environment, etc. and see just how well he does...
Chimpy McChimperson

Tulsa, OK

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#73
Oct 7, 2008
 
Anyone else around here grow up watching Animal Planet or the Discovery Channel? Chimps are not exactly something to cuddle with. The possibility of being maimed for 20 dollars and facing a lifetime of disability, or just a quick death, is not something I think I would enjoy. Call me crazy...
Jeff

Tulsa, OK

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#74
Oct 7, 2008
 
I own a dog but that doesn't mean I am an expert in dogs. Does this mean I fall into the same category as the people at the fair? What about people who own cats, birds, reptiles, etc????
Smacky

Tulsa, OK

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#75
Oct 7, 2008
 
Jeff, you've got a point. But I would hope that anyone who owns an exotic animal would at least do some research/studying before obtaining it. Their needs are much different than an every day household pet.
Jeff wrote:
I own a dog but that doesn't mean I am an expert in dogs. Does this mean I fall into the same category as the people at the fair? What about people who own cats, birds, reptiles, etc????
up north okie
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#76
Oct 7, 2008
 
OMG wrote:
You people will **** about anything.
Guess what....gas is under $3/gallon...I'll bet somebody will find a reason to whine about it...
When Gasoline Reaches a Dollar i`ll Quit Whining, But Then again our Dollar will Probably Be Worth Nothing When That Happens, so I`ll Whine About That Too. It Never Stops. Ha! Ha!
fair tiger lady

Santa Ana, CA

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#77
Oct 7, 2008
 
Jake C wrote:
i would like to say that i'm a proud tulsan and people seem to have forgotten that we were elected america's favorite zoo in 2004. they beat every other zoo in america. they won based on public perception and quality of the environment. dressing chimps in costumes at the fair and charging $25 for a photo has to be stressful for the animal. they don't appear to get a fair amount of rest or time to " **** around".
overall, i think the public perception of what is taking place at the zoo wouldn't be so bad if we knew where the money is going. for lack of a better description, and because she posted no credentials, the carnie said the zoo was mad because someone else was making money. this is completely capitalistic and unfair to the animals. if 500 pictures are taken a day, they are clearing 12,500 daily. where's the benefit for conservation of the animals through donations or tulsa's roads through taxes.
the zoo presented a professional arguement and was responded to with a "nanny nanny boo boo".
thanks,
jake c.
well I happen to be that so called carnie from the fair carnies are ineduacted people, that are homeless, don't have a lcense, no credit, and no teeth watch the interview and you will see I am far from the above I went to the Tulsa zoo on Saturday and I was disguisted at the size of the tigers permenant home the grassy area was aprox. 20x80 that's only 1600 sqare feet my tiger cages are 12,000 to 20,000 square feet. The rhino enclosure had rusted out beams holding it together, they claim they have no keeper interaction with any of their animals including their chimps, well I have photographs and video of 2 keepers in with the penguins. One keeper petting one of the chimps through the cage, and even copies of their own photos on the wall in the chimp house of them being touched. So for all of y'all out there who complained about my big cats maybe y'all should start asking the zoo to start building better enclosures instead of trying to build event centers. The poor brown bear lives his life on the concrete while the lemurs just a few enclosures down have grass, plant some trees and swap enclosures. And for you who quoted that we are making money and we are nonprofit wow did to even pass the 2nd grade nonprofits make money but they have to spend it according to what it was donated for! I might not have a phd in animal science but you go try to read a text book and be able to understand body language of the big cats. When ringling brothers needed white tigers who did they come to? How about when Disney built the animal kingdom, or even when tiger island in austrailia needed their first white tiger? Us, us, and us. Our group has been caring for exotic cats for over 100 years combined experience. Next time look in your own back yard and do some comparision. And as for the stress of travel our cats travel at young ages because of their sizes, also over 10% of all large cats sedated are killed. Was it stressful for nadia the Siberian tiger born in Tulsa to be uprooted from the only life she knew to be put with a strange male who could potentially kill her because of her age? We have done studies splitting litters and doing our own research the cats are fed the same diet and the traveling cats are 30% larger than the ones at home the travel and handling actually stimulates growth could the curator at the Tulsa zoo tell you that? My guess is no the zoo keepers are paid because they have piece of paper stating they have made a commitment to be educated, not because they know what the h**l they are doing
Proud American

Tulsa, OK

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#78
Oct 7, 2008
 
fair tiger lady wrote:
<quoted text>well I happen to be that so called carnie from the fair carnies are ineduacted people, that are homeless, don't have a lcense, no credit, and no teeth watch the interview and you will see I am far from the above I went to the Tulsa zoo on Saturday and I was disguisted at the size of the tigers permenant home the grassy area was aprox. 20x80 that's only 1600 sqare feet my tiger cages are 12,000 to 20,000 square feet. The rhino enclosure had rusted out beams holding it together, they claim they have no keeper interaction with any of their animals including their chimps, well I have photographs and video of 2 keepers in with the penguins. One keeper petting one of the chimps through the cage, and even copies of their own photos on the wall in the chimp house of them being touched. So for all of y'all out there who complained about my big cats maybe y'all should start asking the zoo to start building better enclosures instead of trying to build event centers. The poor brown bear lives his life on the concrete while the lemurs just a few enclosures down have grass, plant some trees and swap enclosures. And for you who quoted that we are making money and we are nonprofit wow did to even pass the 2nd grade nonprofits make money but they have to spend it according to what it was donated for! I might not have a phd in animal science but you go try to read a text book and be able to understand body language of the big cats. When ringling brothers needed white tigers who did they come to? How about when Disney built the animal kingdom, or even when tiger island in austrailia needed their first white tiger? Us, us, and us. Our group has been caring for exotic cats for over 100 years combined experience. Next time look in your own back yard and do some comparision. And as for the stress of travel our cats travel at young ages because of their sizes, also over 10% of all large cats sedated are killed. Was it stressful for nadia the Siberian tiger born in Tulsa to be uprooted from the only life she knew to be put with a strange male who could potentially kill her because of her age? We have done studies splitting litters and doing our own research the cats are fed the same diet and the traveling cats are 30% larger than the ones at home the travel and handling actually stimulates growth could the curator at the Tulsa zoo tell you that? My guess is no the zoo keepers are paid because they have piece of paper stating they have made a commitment to be educated, not because they know what the **** they are doing
Glad to see you on here defending yourself. I for one have come to the fair the last few years and have loved seeing your cats and having a picture taken. They are very loved and if it wasn't for people like you they would be extinct and none of us would ever get to enjoy them outside of a book. So I for one thank you for what you do. I know it is not a glorious lifestyle but you have to love what you do. Any animal can turn on a human - even the family dog!
fair tiger lady

Dixon, MO

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#79
Oct 7, 2008
 
Thanks I'm glad to see I have made a few people happy this year at the fair!
bew

Bixby, OK

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#80
Oct 8, 2008
 
Oh...you think I sound mean? lol BTW if the bricks are not important to the zoo, then why was the zoo selling them? If it does not help the zoo, then why were they selling them? My tower of bricks were sold to us by the ZOO to HELP the zoo...not me...do you get it or do you just want to be "mean"? lol
Bongo the Very Funny Guy wrote:
If you do have complaints about the zoo, the best course of action is to TELL them. Your comments about the conditions of the zoo, Oh Snap, sound very clear and specific, and balanced as well. But it does them no good if there isn't any feedback from you. There will be no change unless you say something to them. And maybe ask what their position is on the circus.
What does the zoo think of the circus?
I've read what you have to say bew, and to me you sound self-righteous and mean. You jump to a lot of conclusions about what people say and do and don't seem to be interested in changing your own ideas. Bully for you and your freakin' tower of bricks.
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