Melee erupts at farmers market drum circle

Karen wrote:

<quoted text>
I was wondering about that too. I'm surprised that people that were already there didn't wait to speak about something supposedly so important to them but having oral communications in the afternoon is patently unfair to anyone with a day job. I find oral communications to be a surreal form of entertainment but even though it bothers some people it stinks that they moved it to the afternoon session just to limit what they see as annoying input.

Oral Communications, like it or not, is the prime draw, at Council meetings and on TV.

The issue here is transparency, which the current entrenchment would have us believe is beyond reproach.

This is old-style ramrod politics. Nothing "progressive" about what happened, except maybe that the hoax held because a special case dope use motion passed, and nobody said a word about the obvious burying of Oral Comm.

Nobody sharing the platform, our leader representatives, spoke out. Must be they all agreed, or choose to look the other way to not be ostracised, thus threatening their "political capital".

Bad move, Cynthia. Bad constipation, Council.

SHOT WHILE ESCAPING WRITES: "Given the choices as stated, I hope the city DOES NOT allow Robert Norse, OF ALL PEOPLE, to invoke "minor changes in the rules of decorum at City Council"."

BECKY: So you SUPPORT paying ANOTHER $100,000 to defend the Santa Cruz City Councilmembers for their FALSE ARREST of Robert Norse. I'm the fiscal conservative here. A settlement now would be much more economically sound than investing in your ire and hatred for Mr. Norse. Have you READ the City Council Rules of Decorum instituted by then-Mayor Tim Fitzmaurice?

It's worth every penny if it makes Norse and Becky shut up and go away.

Becky Johnson wrote:

BECKY: So you SUPPORT paying ANOTHER $100,000 to defend the Santa Cruz City Councilmembers for their FALSE ARREST of Robert Norse. I'm the fiscal conservative here. A settlement now would be much more economically sound than investing in your ire and hatred for Mr. Norse. Have you READ the City Council Rules of Decorum instituted by then-Mayor Tim Fitzmaurice?

Could your calls for a settlement have anything to do with the fact the lawyers have implied Robert may lose? Or, as I believe you put it before, "The outcome may not be what any of us are looking for"?

Becky Johnson wrote:

SHOT WHILE ESCAPING WRITES: "Given the choices as stated, I hope the city DOES NOT allow Robert Norse, OF ALL PEOPLE, to invoke "minor changes in the rules of decorum at City Council"."
BECKY: So you SUPPORT paying ANOTHER $100,000 to defend the Santa Cruz City Councilmembers for their FALSE ARREST of Robert Norse. I'm the fiscal conservative here. A settlement now would be much more economically sound than investing in your ire and hatred for Mr. Norse. Have you READ the City Council Rules of Decorum instituted by then-Mayor Tim Fitzmaurice?

If my understanding is correct, Mr. Norse was arrested for not leaving voluntarily when requested. The Council should have that authority, no question.

To your detriment, you spend a great deal of effort, so it appears, revising history. Not everyone agrees with your revisionist spin, and rightfully so.

DBS wrote:

<quoted text>Hey flag burner, go crap in your hat, and pull it down over your eyes.

wow!!! that was sooo mature. when you are ready to grow up and quit playing name caller, like the shool yard bully please let us know

PSB WRITES: "But there's more than one way to go to court. Robert's way appears to be to urge someone to get hurt or arrested, and then attempt to have a court invalidate the law."

BECKY: Wrong. Robert opposed the 15-min law back when it was the 10-min law. He DOES support civil disobedience of this law---by perhaps talking on your cell phone in a parking lot for longer than 15 minutes---and so do I.

oral communications are important, and far more personal than an email, the council and those attending can see and hear the person speaking, and the emotion, the person speaking can watch the bored city council, who dont care what you think unless you are a part of the downtown business association. and you can hear the approving cheers or disaproving groans of the people in attendance........ i get the feeling city council members would just ignore a great many emails that do not serve their agenda, which is what they did by moving oral communications to a time when everyone is just stepping out of the office door. you people that whine about the bums saying that they should get a job, well only a person without a job could address the council..........hmmmmmmmm does the council care about you?? or what you have to say?? i think not.

Becky if you re-read PSB's statement he said "Robert's way appears to..." the words "appears to" convey that this is PSB's opinion. An opinion is neither right or wrong it is an opinion.

For the record I do agree with PSB. A time honered tactic of low income activists is to get a ticket (or get arrested) rather than spend the money it costs to start a legal action. If HUFF is not using this tactic to get issues before a judge than HUFF is wasting dollars.

Becky, why are you always speaking for Robert?

Breaker breaker, Robert you got your ears on?

I'm going to be at the clock tower this afternoon. I want to hang with my friends and have fun, not to be a pawn for Robert and Becky in their pissing match with the city. Robert is doing his best to turn it from a circle to a circus.

Hi, Mean Hornet. Most of my posts are on indybay. I suggest you raise issues there or e-mail me directly (rnorse3@hotmail.com).

In answer to your question, police try to ignore activists and protests against unconstitutional laws because it would invite legal challenge as well as community scrutiny of the law itself and the process by which it was passed. How many people really know the absurd and abusive wording of the Sleeping Ban and the Parking Lot Panic law? Nor can poor people secure attorneys for defending infractions, because infractions allow neither jury trials nor court-appointed counsel.

Anyone with a question is welcome to contact me at my HUFF number (www.huffsantacruz.org ). Since this website censors phone numbers, get the number there.

You can also call me on air 6-8 PM Thursdays or 9:30 AM to 1 PM Sundays. There was a lot of discussion of this topic as well as an interesting debate with Sgt. Harms which is archived at
http://www.radiolibre.org/brb/brb08091721.mp3 (download and go about 2 hours into the file).

I posted an account from the Trash Orchestra about the violent arrest of Wes Modes, the Dangerous Drummer, at http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/09/17/1...

For me, this thread is about police and city council repression of public asssembly at public parking lot #4. I posted my recent thoughts on that at comment 334 on this thread.

Critics on this thread are not interested in documentation, or don't care that there is none for the latest police harassment and force. I haven't read much in the way of substantive comment to comment 334.

Has anybody else looked at the Public Records (the few that have been released)? They're available.

It's touching in this time of national meltdown, foreign occupation, and local repression to see so much trust in the unsupported word of the local police force and mayor.

YESTERDAY AT CITY COUNCIL

There were six people other than myself who wanted to speak at Oral Communications at City Council yesterday.

Acting chair and Vice-Mayor Mathews was given a petition, asking that we be allowed to, since most of us didn't have the time to sit through 2 hours of Council meeting.

Councilmember Madrigal made a half-hearted effort to get Oral Communications advanced to its usual spot at the start of the meeting, but didn't follow-up. Mathews insisted on having it at the end of the meeting--where only 2 of the original 7 speakers remained (a few others came in later and spoke).

It was Coonertocracy with Mathews filling in.

Becky doesn't speak for me. She speaks for herself. I often wonder why she wants to debate a half-dozen bigots at such length, but that's her choice.

It's not about court challenges or begging city council, but about peacefully reclaiming public space and restoring traditional santa cruz values and practices. Ourselves. Supporting real diversity here.

And that's what'll happen again today--if the Community responds.

Robert Norse wrote:

It's not about court challenges or begging city council, but about peacefully reclaiming public space and restoring traditional santa cruz values and practices. Ourselves. Supporting real diversity here.
And that's what'll happen again today--if the Community responds.

No, Robert, it's about a small group of people imposing their noise on a large group of people who don't want to hear it. It's not only obnoxious, it's inconsiderate.

Why can't you and your drumheads get it?

As another poster said, drum circles are all about promoting community and harmony.

Not the farmers market drum circle - it's all about being noisy, rude and obnoxious.

Go elsewhere.

Robert,

I am truly chagrined that busy persons such as your self and your fellow huffies were not cowtowed to.

How DARE the City Council not rearrange its schedule to accommodate busy people such as yourself. The NERVE of them. Certainly your petition stating that you were too busy to stick around and wait your turn should have been sufficient cause for them to change the proceedings.

Maybe it's time for another harassing lawsuit and a demand for a bazillion public records requests, per your usual modus operandi?

Well, I just posted a long, thoughtful reply, spent at least half an hour on it, and Topix deleted it.

But let me just say that if there was ever a case to establish the 15 minute loitering law as the law of the land, I think this is probably it.

Way to stand behind your police department, Councilman Putz (Madrigal). You might have won a few stoner votes, but hopefully you lost all the cop votes.(And cops actually vote...druggies seldom do.)

Police department should have whipped ass and given "bamboo showers" to the whole crowd of smelly dopers.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/

Hi right back at ya Robert. I still have your contact info somewhere from before. Mostly I just wanted to hear from you that Becky does not speak for you (if you read enough of these posts you'll see how one might come to that conclusion).

Becky wrote:

There were pictures of Wes/Rico pushing the officer with his drum. They have now been deleted.

Sorry Wes has been released, no bail, no charges. I have seen exactly what happened and he NEVER pushed an officer with his drum, the officer walked right into his drum. He took a passive resistant stance.
It worked. Today the fences came down, the people came back, and there was no violence because there was no heavy handed police bullshit. The trash orch did not have to come, the people came.
Sorry this is and never will be Carmel. Move if you don't like it.

How to get a card wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry Wes has been released, no bail, no charges. I have seen exactly what happened and he NEVER pushed an officer with his drum, the officer walked right into his drum. He took a passive resistant stance.
It worked. Today the fences came down, the people came back, and there was no violence because there was no heavy handed police ****.

Well good. I'm glad to hear the charges were dropped. Seems charges have been dropping like fall leaves all over town today...

woooo hooo i had a great time at the market today, shortly after i arrived, i ran into my sister and her husband... both make the big bucks, they asked what he trouble with the drum circle is, since they drove down from felton just to attend the farmers market and dance. well i explained about all the selfish intolerant nazis who cant let people make a little noise one day a week. we actually spoke to the venders, not one seemed to mind the drums, i already knew that though, cuz i have vendor friends. so i put my veggies in my bike basket, and went to drum. we had a great time. it was fun, i saw whole families joining in, and children playing drums and dancing, it was really nice, i suggest if you dont like it attend another market in the area, the others do not have a drum circle, and they are not far from downtown.