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Judge it!
The author of this article is an IDIOT!
How can he write such grovel? He misses the point entirely - and that is Separation of Church and State.
If the church wants to get into the role of defining polictial agendas, forcing a view or belife into the perview of law - then YES they must be ready to sacrefice their belifes to follow the law.
You can't have it both ways!
I say to the RCC what they said to gay folks! STAY WHERE YOU WERE! We don't care that you're catholic, just don't put it in my face!
Issue at Stake in Gay-Adoption Fracas is Religious Freedom
The controversy over gay adoptions in Massachusetts is an issue that can be framed two ways.
Full Story: Yahoo
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“Pithy Epigram Here” Joined: Mar 10, 2006 Comments: 1673 |
Well, if it makes you feel any better, it did say that it was an opinion at the top. Of course, it's an idiot opinion. At first, I thought I was reading Fox News.
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The author misses the point entirely. Catholic Charities, who did a fantastic job with placing children with families in Mass. has operated for years under the anti discrimination laws of that state, which protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation. This allowed them to collect money from the state for each child they were able to place with an adoptive family. The RCC said that Catholic Charities must stop adopting to gay families, thus going against a current law that they had previously had no problem complying with. By going against that law, they will lose the state funding for the children placed, and they, Catholic Charities decided that they could not continue without that funding so they chose to discontinue adoptions because of the mandate they received from Rome.
No one here made them stop doing any adoptions, not the state, nor the gay people in the state. It was all about the RCC and Catholic Charites and money. They made their own choices as to wether or not they will continue the adoptions. The state cannot fund them if they choose to follow their mandate, which goes against state laws. I do hope that the RCC and Catholics will come up with the funding to allow Catholic Charities to continue to follow their faith AND continue the work the do on behalf of the children. |
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Thanks for clarifying. I understand this better now. I am very pro-adoption, for gay and straight adults who want to create families. However, if Catholic Charities uses private funding only, they should be allowed to set their own rules. I respect the separation of church and state whether or not I agree with policies, and this is a good example. |
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They are catholic after all, and follow the rules of the catholic church, I fully support their decision to follow their beliefs, regardles of how I feel about their beliefs. It is also starting to happen here in San Francisco, and again, I support them in following their beliefs, but I am saddened by their choice as it really affects very needy children.
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Johhny big guy,
The state laws against discrimination in Mass. have been in place for quite a while. It was your church who said that Catholic Charities had to follow strictly the doctorine of your church, which is fully acceptable for them to expect. By doing so, though, they go against the laws of the state that they had been able to follow up until the RCC said no gay family adoptions, as is their right. The church made the decision, and Catholic Charities followed the church, which is fine. That unfortunately disqualified them from recieving the funds that they had been recieving from the state for each child placed because the violated the state anti discrimination law. It was Catholic Charities and the RCC that made that decision, not the state. I hope that the RCC and Catholic Charities can find funding to continue the outstanding work they have been doing with adoption without state funding, but they have currently discontinued that service. The church has to play by the state laws if they want state funding just like all the other adoption agencies. No body is taking away their religious freedom, they are just exersizing their religious freedom, unfortunately causing the loss of funding.
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OK Johnny,
One more time and slowly. The recent decision to stop adoption to gays was done by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and CATHOLIC CHARITIES. The state would enforce the anti discrimination laws as they do when any group or individual breaks those laws, including any of the other adoption organizations in their state. This would be enforced if a different adoption agency decided that catholic couples ( and this is just a hypothetical situation as no one decided any such thing) should not be allowed to adopt from them. This goes against the antidiscrimination policy as well. It is not just antidiscrimination based on sexuality, but race, and religion. The law has been in effect long enough for cases of discrimination to get through the court systems to the Mass. supreme court in regards to gay marraige, which the said was discriminatory. So the law has been there, and Catholic Charities was doing a wonderful job placing children in families following the law, until they were told to get in line by your Roman Catholic Church leaders. It is very simple. I understand the situation just fine. The law is the law, and religious organizations are not above the law if the want to work within the civil arena and receive public money. They do not have to change their belief systems nor are they disallowed the freedom to practice their religion here. No one is forcing them to do anything that would infringe on their rights, and I would be offended by that John as it is also against the law. I fully support them in following their religious teachings and beliefs, that is their right. I disagree with them personally, but I have that right as well, and I don't want them imposed on me or others who are not part of the religion. Now, you please read up on what Romney is trying to do, you seem confused. He wants them to be exempt from the antidiscrimination law because he wants them to still receive the money. He is very clear about this, and what he is trying to do is get them an exemption because he wants them to continue to place children for adoption, which the CC says they cannot do without the funding. This is all very clear in all of the actual articles. Romney is concerned because CC does a great number of adoptions for Mass. including very hard to place children. This is the saddest part. I hope that the RCC and Catholic Charities can find the funding to keep up their good work and follow their faith. It is sad that this whole thing has stopped the very good and valuable work. But it is the law.
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Oops, John I forgot one more thing. While I am glad to see you branching out and getting more sources other than catholic doctrine you keep posting, Free Republic may not be your best source. They are very supportive of White Supremecy, and I don't neccessarily get that vibe from you. Your devout catholic vibe is definately strong, but I don't get racial purity as well. Just thought I would let you know what is know about Free Republic.
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Tim:
Thanks for pickin up on this post. I just logged in to check the post and you have done a great job keeping the focus on the core issue! Our friend John will always resort to justifications and 3rd party endorsements from the FreeRepublic website because that fosters and upholds his argument. I guess he just won't address your question about WHY all of a sudden the RCC in MA (after years of not having an issue with gay adoption placement) is having an issue? Could it be the fact that Romney is going to run for President in 08? Or that the RCC wants to fall in step with the Republicans in attempt to make the Nov. elections about MORALITY?(gay marriage, gay adoption, immigration, etc)? Things that make you go Hmmmmmm |
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Ok, John, how bout u check out this link and let all the women and wives know how u feel about appling the views of the bible on their role in the world?
http://www.topix.net/forum/news/gay/TBFHQL9AL... |
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They are a site for white supremecists, or at least support them and their actions, all over that site. And you quote from them? Well, John you are less more disturgbing that I thought and have no more interest in anything you say, because I cannot respect you, so at this point your opinions and arguments have become bilious.
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Its amazing, everytime i bring up the bible and quote verses that contradict his statements, he never replies! Go figure!
Yet another "Cockroach Christian" ..they are all over the place in the darkness of their intolerance, but turn the light of fact on the discussion, and they scurry away! I'll paraphrase John from a prior post: "you don't get to pick and choose parts of the bible that make your point"..welll..if u click that link above and see exactly what the bible says about the role of women in society, then maybe you'll understand why John posts the way he does. |
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He is waiting from some new edict or decree from Rome, or trying to figure which of the ones he has already posted as nauseum on some many other postst here fits best, or that he can cut to fit best. Not always the most interesting reading, but he is usually consistant. He also still blames he gays for the church stopping thier own adoptions.
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Joined: Dec 18, 2005 Comments: 2084 ISP: Sunnyvale, CA |
No one is forcing the Catholic Charities to allow adoptions by loving gay couples. But if those charities expect to use state resources and take part in state regulated programs, they must follow the law of the land.
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I'm a RC born and raised. I also know the games that the RC Church and this current pope likes to play with people's lives. I have issues with this pope and his past as a Nazi Youth and his role in WWII. I believe that he did more than fire at British and American planes.
He was the one to tell the RC adoption centers to stop allowing gays to adopt children. It was his decision to treat gays, women and the infirm as less then human. It's very strange how his policies concerning people and Hitler's have so much in common. Anyways back to the topic at hand. Simply put the pope decided that gays where inhuman and therefore unfit to raise or have anything to do with children. He rather see a child without a home then to see the child with a loving gay couple. It is his decision but if those charities accept public money from the tax payers which include gays then they have to follow the state guidelines. All CC has to do is to stop accepting money from the public and take private donations. That will remove the state from the religion and the religion form the state. The only reason that they haven't is because they like the money they recieved from the public. Personally if the pope wants to stop gays from adopting then he should support give the adoption centers the money to do there job. He recieves millions of dollars a year in donations, and revenue from Church own businesses. Where does this money go to? Right into buy him those silk robes, those fancy cars and jets, the priceless works of art and artifacts, the chefs and servants that wait on him. That's where. You know it priest are to require to take a oath of provety how come the pope lives like he does while those that gave him the money barely has money to put food on the table for their families. Just my two cents worth. |
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Who died and made you the end all and be all of the Roman Catholic church? My family has always been catholic as far back as I have looked. My family is also upset about the type of man this pope is as well as my community. The pope is not Jesus but a man just like the rest of us and same with the bishops, the cardinals. I love my religion but I hate the leaders of the Church because they betray not only the people that they are supposed to lead but also God and Jesus through their actions. First - The pope is a man, not a god and he is also a political leader of the city state of the Vatican. Second - He admitted to the fact that he was part of the Nazi youth movement and that he was in the German Army, but what I question is his statement of getting rid of his uniform and getting civilian clothing. The only ones who did that were the SS officers. Third - His political and social views are very similar to the Nazi teachings and he is instituting those views into the church. One has to wonder if he has the same finally solution for gays as did Hitler. Fourth - The church received millions from donations from the faithful and billions from tax-free Church owned businesses around the world. Where does this money go? Right to the pope so he can buy those fancy robes, planes, cars, employee his personal chef and other servants. I thought the priest took a vow of poverty, but it is obvious that the pope thinks himself above such vows. |
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Fifth – Since the church has this money why did they allow these Catholic Charities to accept public state money? Money if you want to know came from non-Catholics, non-Christians, gays, and atheist. Since they accept the money they then became a public agency where they have to follow the state laws and guidelines associated. If they did not accept this money they will become a private charity and can follow the rules outline by the pope. Why haven’t they even tried to run this organization as a private charity? Because they want the state to pay for it instead of the church. Sixth – The pope is not only a religious leader but also a political one. He rules the city state of the Vatican don’t you know. Therefore each church is considered an embassy and each priest an ambassador of the Vatican state. Since ambassadors are preaching to the various people his message he is trying to affect the various election processes around the world. Any other foreign power that tries to tell the people of the United States how to vote and what laws they need to follow would have been given the finger a long time ago. We should do the same with him. Seventh – I fully believe that the pope’s goal is to see that not only are gays are prevented from adopting but also if they have any biological children that their rights as parents are taken away, that they would be deny any jobs that come into contact with traditional families which means that gays will not be allow to live where they want, work in fields that want or even have the basic human rights that you enjoy. I believe that the Church’s goal is to make homosexuals the scapegoat of the world and to classify them as sub-human and therefore not entitled to be protect or freedom. Look at what he has done in the Church by blaming gays for the pedophiles that have used the church to get to the most vulnerable among us. The Church has for centuries condone this behavior and hidden those that get caught in other churches allowing the monsters to continued to hunt children of both sexes. He then puts a gag order on all the clergy threatening them with ex-communication if they talk to the law. He then has the never to blame the victims for the fact that they were molested. The Roman Catholic Church is no longer concern about the word of Jesus and God but about political power and money. They have become the Pharsesses, the same ones that had Jesus put to death. If Jesus came back to earth he would be disgusted by what the church had become. I fully believe that Jesus would open his arms to homosexuals, non-Catholics, and non-Christians. This same church that you worship will do everything in its power to destroy Jesus and if they can’t kill him. |
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Who died and made you the end all and be all of the Roman Catholic church? My family has always been catholic as far back as I have looked. My family is also upset about the type of man this pope is as well as my community. The pope is not Jesus but a man just like the rest of us and same with the bishops, the cardinals. I love my religion but I hate the leaders of the Church because they betray not only the people that they are supposed to lead but also God and Jesus through their actions. First - The pope is a man, not a god and he is also a political leader of the city state of the Vatican. Second - He admitted to the fact that he was part of the Nazi youth movement and that he was in the German Army, but what I question is his statement of getting rid of his uniform and getting civilian clothing. The only ones who did that were the SS officers. Third - His political and social views are very similar to the Nazi teachings and he is instituting those views into the church. One has to wonder if he has the same finally solution for gays as did Hitler. Fourth - The church received millions from donations from the faithful and billions from tax-free Church owned businesses around the world. Where does this money go? Right to the pope so he can buy those fancy robes, planes, cars, employee his personal chef and other servants. I thought the priest took a vow of poverty, but it is obvious that the pope thinks himself above such vows. Fifth – Since the church has this money why did they allow these Catholic Charities to accept public state money? Money if you want to know came from non-Catholics, non-Christians, gays, and atheist. Since they accept the money they then became a public agency where they have to follow the state laws and guidelines associated. If they did not accept this money they will become a private charity and can follow the rules outline by the pope. Why haven’t they even tried to run this organization as a private charity? Because they want the state to pay for it instead of the church. |
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Sixth – The pope is not only a religious leader but also a political one. He rules the city state of the Vatican don’t you know. Therefore each church is considered an embassy and each priest an ambassador of the Vatican state. Since ambassadors are preaching to the various people his message he is trying to affect the various election processes around the world. Any other foreign power that tries to tell the people of the United States how to vote and what laws they need to follow would have been given the finger a long time ago. We should do the same with him.
Seventh – I fully believe that the pope’s goal is to see that not only are gays are prevented from adopting but also if they have any biological children that their rights as parents are taken away, that they would be deny any jobs that come into contact with traditional families which means that gays will not be allow to live where they want, work in fields that want or even have the basic human rights that you enjoy. I believe that the Church’s goal is to make homosexuals the scapegoat of the world and to classify them as sub-human and therefore not entitled to be protect or freedom. Look at what he has done in the Church by blaming gays for the pedophiles that have used the church to get to the most vulnerable among us. The Church has for centuries condone this behavior and hidden those that get caught in other churches allowing the monsters to continued to hunt children of both sexes. He then puts a gag order on all the clergy threatening them with ex-communication if they talk to the law. He then has the never to blame the victims for the fact that they were molested. The Roman Catholic Church is no longer concern about the word of Jesus and God but about political power and money. They have become the Pharsesses, the same ones that had Jesus put to death. If Jesus came back to earth he would be disgusted by what the church had become. I fully believe that Jesus would open his arms to homosexuals, non-Catholics, and non-Christians. This same church that you worship will do everything in its power to destroy Jesus and if they can’t kill him. |
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Notice how John completely ignored the link about the role of women in the church? Hmmmmmm
Why? Because when you turn the light of truth and reality on his argument - they hold no validity! |
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