OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, State Question 756

Justaminute wrote:

Germany making enormous progress with solar energy
These new developments in Germany are impressive. They are now generating as much energy as 20 nuclear power plants, though without all of the downside side effects of nuclear energy. Remember that for years, many in the anti-change camp have insisted that the green energy sources could never provide enough energy.
Thanks to Germany's insistence on moving beyond nuclear energy, we're seeing that other options are possible and that they can work. Change is never easy but just because some say it's not possible, doesn't mean that it's true. Well done, Germany and thanks for showing the world what is possible.

Now if we can just figure out how to make the damn things with union wages and we got it wooped.

I'm all for alternate energies and have a lot of ideas myself. But I'm not willing to shut down an oil well just to make gas get so high we can make solar panels and pay people $75 an hour to do it.

Who Is Obama wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess i don't know what you mean where i got that from.
Ever listen to Keith Olberman? Are you saying that dems never critised Bush? All I'm saying is it's the same crap...pick your side. Want one side...got to fox...want the other go to msnbc.
I'm not interested in Rhetoric, so accusing me of it is laughable to me. I'm interested in the country's future, not wether a rep or dem gets in office. There's more than enough of you guys for that pointless show.

Well a Dem or a Rep is going to get into office. What's the point of your rhetoric?

Keith Olbermann, he made his points.After all, we kind of got lied into a war in Iraq, remember? The economy melted down under Bush too, no matter how much they want to blame Obama for it. But not even close to what Obama has had. Now we have birthers, racists, omgRev. Wrights mouthbreathers, and OMGwhat were Obama's SAT/ACT test score. Even Romney is embracing Birther "The Hair Trump. Even as they want to erase Bush from the memory banks, it still hasn't stopped Romney to try for a Bush II repeat.

You can discuss all day your point of view but it means little or nothing if you can't pick a candidate to carry out your wishes or as close to them as possible. It's like arguing the subject to death with some one that has not intentions of voting. What's the point?

We are getting ready to have another election. No viable candidate is in the anything but a D or an R. To pretend we have another option is in fact the pointless option.

So discussing what got us in this mess is important but denying that your not going to have to chose between a Dem and Repub is the whole point of the conversation we are having. And discussing the policies difference between them is the point. What else is there?

Who Is Obama wrote:

<quoted text>
Now if we can just figure out how to make the damn things with union wages and we got it wooped.
I'm all for alternate energies and have a lot of ideas myself. But I'm not willing to shut down an oil well just to make gas get so high we can make solar panels and pay people $75 an hour to do it.

Well their paying German Union wages for the steel to build in New York and other places. And it's $40 an hour. Sure beats those Okie non-union wages doesn't it?

Justaminure wrote:

"What's the point of your rhetoric?"

You keep saying that...just show it to me...I don't know what I said that sounded like rhetoric to you...that favored either party. I'm just saying you can find it on both sides..

Telling me I have to pick a side is like asking me what color hurst I would like for my funeral...blue..or..red. Unless you can show me anything in the future besides German built solar panels, I just don't see much hope for the current system. Democrat or republican.

I know you think my bent against spending is republican...but it isn't, Bush spent like a wild man...I was against it then. I was against the bailouts. Go find that 16 trillion and you'll know why.

It's not even the spending I'm against so much as a corrupt system. Your going to chose dem no matter if it's the best choice or not...just like heat will vote rep. If either side managed to put up a realistic plan to save the country either one of you wouldn't vote for them because it's not your party.

I'm sorry if I'm not excited about getting screwed as much as everyone else.

Who Is Obama wrote:

Justaminure wrote:
"What's the point of your rhetoric?"
You keep saying that...just show it to me...I don't know what I said that sounded like rhetoric to you...that favored either party. I'm just saying you can find it on both sides..
Telling me I have to pick a side is like asking me what color hurst I would like for my funeral...blue..or..red. Unless you can show me anything in the future besides German built solar panels, I just don't see much hope for the current system. Democrat or republican.
I know you think my bent against spending is republican...but it isn't, Bush spent like a wild man...I was against it then. I was against the bailouts. Go find that 16 trillion and you'll know why.
It's not even the spending I'm against so much as a corrupt system. Your going to chose dem no matter if it's the best choice or not...just like heat will vote rep. If either side managed to put up a realistic plan to save the country either one of you wouldn't vote for them because it's not your party.
I'm sorry if I'm not excited about getting screwed as much as everyone else.

Why bother to comment then? We are getting ready to elect a President,senators,representat ives, and state Politicians.

Just complaining about a system that you have no hope of changing this elections season or even the next accomplishes nothing. It's not a perfect system but it's the best we have at the moment.

Unless you decide to run for office yourself or hunt for a candidate that shares your point of view that's you only options. But in this election your hoping for a unicorn. Not going to happen. That option you want doesn't exist right now.

You can't argue your perfect party or perfect candidate into existence. You have to work withing the system that exists now. Good luck finding that unicorn.

Who Is Obama wrote:

<quoted text>
Now if we can just figure out how to make the damn things with union wages and we got it wooped.
I'm all for alternate energies and have a lot of ideas myself. But I'm not willing to shut down an oil well just to make gas get so high we can make solar panels and pay people $75 an hour to do it.

==========

Management won't do the right thing by labor so we have unions.

BTW, unions are BIG in Germany, and quality of life in country is excellent, and not just for the elite wealthy.

Who Is Obama wrote:

Justaminute:
If you want to tax the rich...then tax them. I've never said don't tax the rich. I'm just saying you better hurry up and get what you can...while you can get it. Obama knows.
I'm all for education and training...but not the way you want it. You want it going down through the same corrupted lines that are a failure now.
Pull the military back...cut it in half....we still haven't solved the problem.
We spent 16 trillion...count up where all that money went and then get back with me and tell me what problem was solved....not kicked down the road...solved. 16 trillion would put every man, women and child in America through Harvard. Tell me where that money went and then tell me why I need to dig in my pocket and send more. Type on your search bar 16 trillion.
You start really looking and you'll find out it isn't so much a democrat republican thing...it's a crooked government thing.
I already know education and training is needed, as well as bridges, roads, etc., but the government has showed me they can't be trusted with money.

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>>>16 trillion would put every man, women and child in America through Harvard. Tell me where that money went and then tell me why I need to dig in my pocket and send more. <<<

Glad you asked. Bush and GOP are responsible for 13-trillion of that 16-trillion.

Well it went for war against people who did not attack us and who did not have WMD and for Haliburton and subs, and their owners, and other profiteers.

Most of 3-trillion(Obama spending) that makes up rest of 16-trillion went for interest on 13-trillion Bush/GOP spending, and some went for stimulus that helped save this nation from a depression.

Very hard to come up with solutions when the credible facts of who spent what are repeatedly denied. It is why Bush and GOP used a Spending Measure in lieu of their last budget so that the spending would go unnoticed by the incautious observers and appear to be Obama's. Guess what? The deception has worked. Many WRONGLY believe Obama spending is 5 to 6 trillion. Even when they look at official records that show they are wrong.

DustyOutlaw wrote:

There is absolutely no reason people shouldn't be required to present I.D. in order to vote. NONE AT ALL. That's a splinter issue that should not even be in play. If you're such a low life you don't have an I.D. then you're either someone who is not voting anyhow or someone who is voting illegally on the benefit of someone else.

I have no problem in showing ID to vote. Heck I have to show an ID to write a check. The one thing that really pisses me off is I have to show an ID and sign for buying allergy meds with the decongestant in it. So what is the big deal about showing an ID to vote? Also going to the doctors or hospital you have to show insurance cards and IDs. So what they do with the people that don't have them I don't know but they seem to get treatment anyways and leave the bill unpaid. Go figure?

Justaminute wrote:

<quoted text>
We pay it back when our citizens are working and actual employment is in the 5% range. Like at the beginning of the Bush administration when we had a surplus. Or for most of the Clinton administration. Not when we are still fighting a war and we still have a lot of unemployment, that's for sure.
Yes, spending more on infrastructure and education and our electric grid and trying to innovate ie. R&D etc. Economics 101. That's what coming thru the Great Depression showed us? Interstate systems, Dams and bridges, work projects, etc. We SPENT. Hoover went the route of playing deficit games too. You know how well that went don't you?

You are forgetting the banks and the people that took out those bad loans. The variable loans and because interest rates kept going up the owners could not pay their loan payments from month to month till they owed more than their home was worth.

"Who is Obama" possesses recognition. Politics eventually corrupts everyone involved. Always has, always will.

So if you agree with that premise then you'll realize that the federal government will never provide any solutions.

But then examine yourself and ask yourself: Where are solutions found?

However, an answer to the question will never arrive if you refuse to deeply examine yourself first.

I've more money and more degrees than most people will ever achieve. Yet none of that is where my specialness lies.

Who Is Obama wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess i don't know what you mean where i got that from.
Ever listen to Keith Olberman? Are you saying that dems never critised Bush? All I'm saying is it's the same crap...pick your side. Want one side...got to fox...want the other go to msnbc.
I'm not interested in Rhetoric, so accusing me of it is laughable to me. I'm interested in the country's future, not wether a rep or dem gets in office. There's more than enough of you guys for that pointless show.

You're getting a little defensive here. Olberman is the left wing version of O'Reilly. Maddow is the left wing version of oh say that idiot Palin. None of those people represent anything other than the extremists IDIOTS of America. But to bring up one side without acknowledging the other being the same in opposite is defensive. I thought better of you.

TAMARA wrote:

<quoted text>I have no problem in showing ID to vote. Heck I have to show an ID to write a check. The one thing that really pisses me off is I have to show an ID and sign for buying allergy meds with the decongestant in it. So what is the big deal about showing an ID to vote? Also going to the doctors or hospital you have to show insurance cards and IDs. So what they do with the people that don't have them I don't know but they seem to get treatment anyways and leave the bill unpaid. Go figure?

I'm not getting into the allergy meds debate. I'm a Libertarian on drugs. Legalize them all and let the morons kill themselves. Good riddance. It would cut crime, it would be a start on balancing the budget by cutting the DEA by about 75%(put them working the cartels and that's just for border security). It would cut prison expenses by billions. I'm simply not interested in pursing drug addicts since the majority of drug addicts in this country are pharmaceutical legal addicts.

You don't close the defict overnight. But it can be done. It won't be done because the ultra rich are not about to make their money the old fashioned way. EARN IT. But for a fantasy here is how to close the deficit.

1.) Cut Military spending in half. Cut Military industrial spending by 75%. You gonna tell me Halliburton is not going to take the job if they have to do it honestly? Fine. Someone will.

2.) Institute workfare instead of welfare. Make people contribute in some way for assistance. The return would cut about 30 billion a year in value.

3.) Eliminate corporate welfare. There is absolutely no reason to be subsidizing tobacco or anything else for that matter. 90% of farming is corporate farming today. It's called free enterprise. There is no reason to be subsidizing the cost of milk (which continues to climb) In a free market people will control the prices. Again what are they going to do if they are not subsidized? Stop milking cows because of less profit? Someone will.

4.) Scale back our nuclear weapons program to nothing more than R & D. We have enough nukes to destroy the world 200 times over. So what if our nukes get there two minutes after theirs hit us. Dead is dead. First strike matters little with nukes.

5.) Nationalize the oil companies. If there is one single thing in the USA that should be nationalized it is the oil companies.

6. Legalize drugs and tax the h well out of them.

Problem solved.

Reality wrote:

"Who is Obama" possesses recognition. Politics eventually corrupts everyone involved. Always has, always will.
So if you agree with that premise then you'll realize that the federal government will never provide any solutions.
But then examine yourself and ask yourself: Where are solutions found?
However, an answer to the question will never arrive if you refuse to deeply examine yourself first.
I've more money and more degrees than most people will ever achieve. Yet none of that is where my specialness lies.

The answer lies within ourselves.

DustyOutlaw wrote:

<quoted text>
You're getting a little defensive here. Olberman is the left wing version of O'Reilly. Maddow is the left wing version of oh say that idiot Palin. None of those people represent anything other than the extremists IDIOTS of America. But to bring up one side without acknowledging the other being the same in opposite is defensive. I thought better of you.

What?

What one side Dusty? Did you not read the whole thing?

Justaminute was implying ( I thought ) that the dems never put the reps through the mill like the reps are doing to Obama now. I merely saying both sides have their demonize the other side programs.

You guys need to show me where I favored a side...instead pointing at a word. I'm just stating a simple observation that we all kniow is true.

DustyOutlaw wrote:

You don't close the defict overnight. But it can be done. It won't be done because the ultra rich are not about to make their money the old fashioned way. EARN IT. But for a fantasy here is how to close the deficit.
1.) Cut Military spending in half. Cut Military industrial spending by 75%. You gonna tell me Halliburton is not going to take the job if they have to do it honestly? Fine. Someone will.
2.) Institute workfare instead of welfare. Make people contribute in some way for assistance. The return would cut about 30 billion a year in value.
3.) Eliminate corporate welfare. There is absolutely no reason to be subsidizing tobacco or anything else for that matter. 90% of farming is corporate farming today. It's called free enterprise. There is no reason to be subsidizing the cost of milk (which continues to climb) In a free market people will control the prices. Again what are they going to do if they are not subsidized? Stop milking cows because of less profit? Someone will.
4.) Scale back our nuclear weapons program to nothing more than R & D. We have enough nukes to destroy the world 200 times over. So what if our nukes get there two minutes after theirs hit us. Dead is dead. First strike matters little with nukes.
5.) Nationalize the oil companies. If there is one single thing in the USA that should be nationalized it is the oil companies.
6. Legalize drugs and tax the h well out of them.
Problem solved.

I can't say I don't agree with most of this. Soon it will be a have to do thing.

DustyOutlaw wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not getting into the allergy meds debate. I'm a Libertarian on drugs. Legalize them all and let the morons kill themselves. Good riddance. It would cut crime, it would be a start on balancing the budget by cutting the DEA by about 75%(put them working the cartels and that's just for border security). It would cut prison expenses by billions. I'm simply not interested in pursing drug addicts since the majority of drug addicts in this country are pharmaceutical legal addicts.

You missed my point completely: I said if I have to show ID for getting an allergy med or writting a check then I do not see what the problem is to show ID when a person votes. When you go to the doctors or any other medical place you show ID and if you have insurance ID for insurance. I am not debating illegal drugs.

TAMARA wrote:

<quoted text>You missed my point completely: I said if I have to show ID for getting an allergy med or writting a check then I do not see what the problem is to show ID when a person votes. When you go to the doctors or any other medical place you show ID and if you have insurance ID for insurance. I am not debating illegal drugs.

I understood your point Tamara. Stop being defensive, I was agreeing with you. My point was that we are a messed up country. We can go to the doctor and become legal addicts yet we have to show an I.D. to buy over the counter drugs which makes no sense at all. Then we further the compound the problem by not requiring I.D. to vote but again you don't want them meth heads to get that sudafed that will make less than 1/8th ounce of meth no matter how much they buy. It's just insane.

DustyOutlaw wrote:

<quoted text>
I understood your point Tamara. Stop being defensive, I was agreeing with you. My point was that we are a messed up country. We can go to the doctor and become legal addicts yet we have to show an I.D. to buy over the counter drugs which makes no sense at all. Then we further the compound the problem by not requiring I.D. to vote but again you don't want them meth heads to get that sudafed that will make less than 1/8th ounce of meth no matter how much they buy. It's just insane.

Sorry I miss unstood you. Yes I agree it is insane. Every time I have to get one of those allergy pills out of those little packets I hope someone cracks a finger off. I actually would rather shoot the ones that get caught making this darn stuff! I know that some what harsh but I am tired of the bad guys taking my rights and freedom away!

ron everhart K2C 1975 wrote:

i hope you people DO vote to pull out. i just spent a long weekend out that way, and based on what i saw, and what i already know about the relative allocation of federal dollars to states versus the contributions from those states, y'all independent-minded don't tread on me Okies are already on welfare, and progressive states like my adopted home are footing the bill for all the ignorant, self-destructive behavior out there. just be sure and write into the amendment that whoever can't - or won't - pay their own way, gets to die, period, and none of this "you can't make me buy insurance but i can go to the ER and the taxpayers have to save me" stuff.
BTW, your comments about Hugo - everywhere I went in several towns this weekend was just the same... what happened to the great state I left in 1982?

I'm just wondering how fair is it to allow people to opt out and push the cost of their health care onto the rest of us.