Deer Hunting in Unit 34 2011

My family and I hunted in Unit 34 in the Lick Canyon/Lick Ridge/Ben williams Canyon/Pinon Draw area this year. We have hunted this area for years. All the tanks in the area were dry. They still had the black plastic pipe running to them but no water. Out of 8 hunters in the field watching canyons, still hunting, stalking, and whatever else we could think of, we saw exactly ZERO deer. I grew up in Artesia and have hunted this area since I was a kid and have never seen anything like this. I understand the drought, but I don't understand the tanks being dry. What are the Lincoln National Forest and New Mexico Department of Game and Fish doing for the deer and elk? NMDGF has no problem collecting fees. What else do they do?

I sent e-mails to both the Lincoln National Forest and NMDGF and was totally ignored. I can tell you one thing--no water results in no deer. Hunters not only pay hunting fees but also support the communities. My group spent over $5000 in New Mexico with food, meals, motel rooms, gas, etc. We all agreed we would not be back if did not have at least a chance of getting a deer. All the other camps we visited in this area had the same success we had and felt the same way.

We hunted (weekend before Thanksgiving) in Unit 36 off Carlton Canyon. Friend got a 4x3 Buck within 45 minutes, and then we spent 2 hours hauling it out.

All the deer & elk are on Alto's two golf courses, along with a herd of wild horses. The grass is sweet, the ponds are full, and they seem to know there are no hunters, just the occasional golf ball that might hit them. They don't seem to mind though.

It would appear that you don't understand either the drought or how these tanks work.
The tanks are fed through the black pipes from collection ponds. The ponds get their water from rain, snow etc.
No rain, snow etc. no water.
It appears that you want the Game and Fish Department as well as the Forest Service to start making their own water!
Couple of pretty powerful departments but I'm afraid that they fall a bit short of that ability!

Clark wrote:

My family and I hunted in Unit 34 in the Lick Canyon/Lick Ridge/Ben williams Canyon/Pinon Draw area this year. We have hunted this area for years. All the tanks in the area were dry. They still had the black plastic pipe running to them but no water. Out of 8 hunters in the field watching canyons, still hunting, stalking, and whatever else we could think of, we saw exactly ZERO deer. I grew up in Artesia and have hunted this area since I was a kid and have never seen anything like this. I understand the drought, but I don't understand the tanks being dry. What are the Lincoln National Forest and New Mexico Department of Game and Fish doing for the deer and elk? NMDGF has no problem collecting fees. What else do they do?
I sent e-mails to both the Lincoln National Forest and NMDGF and was totally ignored. I can tell you one thing--no water results in no deer. Hunters not only pay hunting fees but also support the communities. My group spent over $5000 in New Mexico with food, meals, motel rooms, gas, etc. We all agreed we would not be back if did not have at least a chance of getting a deer. All the other camps we visited in this area had the same success we had and felt the same way.

Well wrote:

It would appear that you don't understand either the drought or how these tanks work.
The tanks are fed through the black pipes from collection ponds. The ponds get their water from rain, snow etc.
No rain, snow etc. no water.
It appears that you want the Game and Fish Department as well as the Forest Service to start making their own water!
Couple of pretty powerful departments but I'm afraid that they fall a bit short of that ability!
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It would appear that you don't understand collecting money and then not providing the service for which you are collecting money. Have you ever heard of water wells? Several of the private landowners in the area have wells as does Timberon. Pretty powerful departments with a lot of money collected who have people like you making excuses for them.

Hunters spend a lot of money in the local communities. Water wells cost money but not that much compared to not having water for the animals and losing the revenue from hunters--or maybe you think you know a lot about that also. I am in the drilling business so I probably have a better feel for it than you do. Water wells don't cost that much and you don't need many of them to fill up a few tanks and troughs.

These are typical problems when you have a mix of private and public properties. When ranchers have grazing allotments on public land, they are supposed to maintain the water. Isn't it interesting the more controled our hunting seasons are, the more regulated the ranchers and industries are that use these public lands, and the more money we dump into "management" through the forest service and BLM, the less wildlife we have. That ought to tell us something...O.L.

Clark wrote:

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It would appear that you don't understand collecting money and then not providing the service for which you are collecting money.

You paid money to have the tanks filled? Or did you pay money for a license to go hunting? Did that license come with a guarantee your hunt would be successful?

My wife has killed more deer with her car then I have with my rifle. I suggest that you bring your wife next time and let her drive around Ruidoso while you hunt . That way when your finished with your hunt your wife will have a deer hanging for you when you get back to town. :)

hunting wrote:

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You paid money to have the tanks filled? Or did you pay money for a license to go hunting? Did that license come with a guarantee your hunt would be successful?

Good question. I paid for a license to go hunting--not camping. A hunt is guaranteed to be unsuccessful if there is no water for the animals. As I said, I have hunted this area for well over 30 years and have never seen it like this. However, where I have a home in Timberon, there is plenty of water and plenty of deer.

Bottom line: I expect the NMDGF to provide a fair chance to get a deer. If that means filling the water tanks, then that is what they need to do. Otherwise, just close the area to hunting and tell hunters the truth that they have little to no chance of getting a deer because NMDGF and Lincoln National Forest feel they have no responbsibility to either the animals or the hunters. I doubt they will do that because they still want the all mighty dollar regardless of whether they do their job or not.

Little Stinker wrote:

My wife has killed more deer with her car then I have with my rifle. I suggest that you bring your wife next time and let her drive around Ruidoso while you hunt . That way when your finished with your hunt your wife will have a deer hanging for you when you get back to town.:)

Same as my home in Timberon, but my wife waters and feeds them so there are plenty available. Wonder if that ever occurred to NMDGF?

The only reason I try to hunt this area is it is home. The NMDGF has never been very good in New Mexico and they haven't improved. Too bad since there is as much potential for hunters which bring in revenue to businesses as any western state.

Clark wrote:

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Good question. I paid for a license to go hunting--not camping. A hunt is guaranteed to be unsuccessful if there is no water for the animals...

You did go hunting, you just didn't get anything.

People hunted for tens of thousands of years -even in times of drought- without a government agency making it easy by providing water for their prey. Some hunts are successful, some are not. Them's the breaks. Better luck next time.

hmm wrote:

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You did go hunting, you just didn't get anything.
People hunted for tens of thousands of years -even in times of drought- without a government agency making it easy by providing water for their prey. Some hunts are successful, some are not. Them's the breaks. Better luck next time.

Did they go hunting thousands of years ago paying a government entity for the right to do it? Does the government agency have any responsibility to the hunters for the money they collect? Does the Lincoln National Forest which we support through taxes have no obligation to the animals in their domain regardless of hunters? I did not go hunting--I went camping. Hunting is when you have a chance to to get something. No water, no animals.

Little Stinker wrote:

My wife has killed more deer with her car then I have with my rifle. I suggest that you bring your wife next time and let her drive around Ruidoso while you hunt . That way when your finished with your hunt your wife will have a deer hanging for you when you get back to town.:)

YES! keep full coverage on your car because ,because I see dead deer all the time on the side of the road,last year I hit a Male Elk, knocked him up in the air he landed on his feet and ran away up the hill near Bonito lake .Thank goodness I was driving slow.It still broke my grill and head light.this year will be better.

Clark wrote:

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It would appear that you don't understand collecting money and then not providing the service for which you are collecting money. Have you ever heard of water wells? Several of the private landowners in the area have wells as does Timberon. Pretty powerful departments with a lot of money collected who have people like you making excuses for them.
Hunters spend a lot of money in the local communities. Water wells cost money but not that much compared to not having water for the animals and losing the revenue from hunters--or maybe you think you know a lot about that also. I am in the drilling business so I probably have a better feel for it than you do. Water wells don't cost that much and you don't need many of them to fill up a few tanks and troughs.

Please stay in Texas.. or wherever you're from. We don't want your hunting business anyway.

Local wrote:

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Please stay in Texas.. or wherever you're from. We don't want your hunting business anyway.

I am from Artesia if you have ever heard of it. I live in Texas as I have many other places in my career in the oilfield due to economics. I own a home in Timberon and pay taxes like everyone else. When I retire there before long, please don't come visit. I'll stay wherever I want and I don't care what you want. Just keep making excuses for the game department.

Local wrote:

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Please stay in Texas.. or wherever you're from. We don't want your hunting business anyway.

Who is WE speak for your self there are people who help the local ecomony by hunting and fishing here in NM as opposed to other States .I am so happy that you are doing so well with your money.

Clark wrote:

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Did they go hunting thousands of years ago paying a government entity for the right to do it? Does the government agency have any responsibility to the hunters for the money they collect? Does the Lincoln National Forest which we support through taxes have no obligation to the animals in their domain regardless of hunters? I did not go hunting--I went camping. Hunting is when you have a chance to to get something. No water, no animals.

They're out there. I've seen them. The deer didn't all die, or pack up and move to Colorado, or all move into town. They're out there. You just didn't get one on your hunting trip. Maybe a "canned hunt" on one of those fenced in ranches might be preferable in your case?

hmm wrote:

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They're out there. I've seen them. The deer didn't all die, or pack up and move to Colorado, or all move into town. They're out there. You just didn't get one on your hunting trip. Maybe a "canned hunt" on one of those fenced in ranches might be preferable in your case?

Rather stupid comment made by someone who does not know how to hunt in New Mexico nor one who has hunted this area as long as I have. There are always plenty of deer in town where you see them. Not worth further discussion with you.

Clark wrote:

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There are always plenty of deer in town where you see them.

Nice straw man argument. I'm not talking about the city deer. I've seen deer in the national forest and in the White Mountain Wilderness. I hike often. They're out there.

Actually hunting during a drought is easier. The deer concentrate around the more limited water sources. When it's wet the deer and other animals are more dispersed because of greater water sources.

You hunt where the animals are, not where you want to hunt. This seems simple but a lot of weekend warriors don't really consider this when making their plans.

A drought will effect future populations of deer as the survival rate of newborns will go down as well as fewer births taking place for the same reason.