Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

Aug 4, 2010 Full story: www.cnn.com 201,163

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

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Reality

Bellows Falls, VT

#130668 Feb 28, 2012
Winston Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Does this mean that you place no value on the effort required to raise a child?
I don't think he's getting the entire financial bill either, and I hope you don't assume that either.
actually, I do, but a decision to have the child knowing there would be no father present actually places no value on the effort required to raise a child.

We ignore the father role and equate it to merely "paying up".

Why do we give the mother the choice to have a baby without a daddy? As Lady doctor said, her choice was to use contraception.

I am not right to life, I am just saying that this "its a woman's body its a woman'd choice" is fine, but then leave the men out of it. They cannot be in at your whim. They are either responsible or not.
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130670 Feb 28, 2012
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
see, your hate of men is starting to show...
You cannot even accept the possibility of a bad mom and great dad!
Wow you sure did read a lot into my comments. I am pretty sure that my husband and father of our six biological and three adopted children is sure going to be surprised that I hate men!
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>

Your bias also slipped through in that you think men are a paycheck and not a father.
you said "he FOB should PAY for the privilege of producing a child he doesn't have to raise."
If you were at all concerned for the child or justice, a fob would have to RAISE the child not just pay the bills.
you negate fatherhood and its importance. Fathers are just a wallet to you?
BIAS? A bias like YOUR bias against lesbian parents being allowed contact with their children after the relationship fails? My probably agree about the wallet part. But only because I was smart enough to marry a man who can provide for my in the manner I was already accustom who I was also sure would be a wonderful father to our children.
Reality wrote:
So again, if a great dad wanted the baby and was prepared to raise it without mother, why has he no right?
A man has no right to his sperm after it leave his body. and knowing this should behave accordingly.

However knowing where the person you are about to merge with stands on abortion/pregnancy/adoption BEFORE having sex without a condom would be helpful. Or BETTER YET establishing a long term, mutually committed relationship BEFORE you have sex in the first place.
Reality wrote:
If its solely her right to choose it should be solely her responsibility to pay if he chooses not to.
She would be choosing to bring in a baby to the world without a father. SHE should take that responsibility!
And in my experience (15 years of OB/GYN) women that use men as unwitting sperm donors with the resources to do so generally do take full responsibility..
Reality wrote:
The system we have encourages mothers to keep the baby even though unwanted by all just for the paycheck.
Tell me I'm wrong.
I doubt there are very many women who have babies for the big payday they get by collecting public assistance.

But are you aware that most of the contested child support cases are initiated by DA's on behalf of women collecting public assistance and most requires the "father" to fork over between $50. and $100. a month directly to the STATE AFTER paternity is established?

The topic continues to be OFF TOPIC and the bottom line is still the same.
sara

Covina, CA

#130672 Feb 28, 2012
WHY VOTE wrote:
Ok, I don't really care if same sex people get married or are together in any capacity. I am for equal rights BUT.......... I am very annoyed that peoples votes don't mean anything anymore. What happened to a majority vote rules? What happened to the peoples voice?
My stance on this has nothing to do with same sex couples. This is just the latest thing a court has overturned or blocked that THE PEOPLE voted for. Look at AZ., look back at prop. 187 which would have saved is billions in illegal immigrant funding. The people of the USA are trying to make changes to better our country and the few judges are effectively disenfranchising us.
Again this is not directed at same sex couples it is major frustration over the majority loosing there voice.
WHY VOTE????
i totally feel you on this why vote if our voice and our vote do not even matter what is the whole purpose in us voting if only a short percentage really gets counted when it comes to legal and illegal stuff so screw the voting system and people should NOT vote for it DOESN'T count anyways. But thank GOD for answering our prayers WE lesbians,gays,transgender can now get married and do not need some stupid narrow minded people telling us we can not and that we are going to hell because of the person we love and want to be with for the rest of our life. I just want them to look themselves in the mirror and see who they are judging before they dare judge again for it is not there role to be judging anyone its the man up above who does all the ruling so if your so much against us getting married and what not maybe you really do not believe in GOD and that you are probably a closet case.(This is NOT intended to you its to the readers)

“IT'S TIME TO ELIMINATE”

Since: Mar 11

PROP 8 AND DOMA!!!

#130673 Feb 28, 2012
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I put the link so you could see the whole thing but I am constrained by the character limit and decided to use what suited my point and leave you to make yours.
Either way, what part makes it not difficult for the court in a way not possible in straight marriage which was the point I was responding to?
Gay couple, Anonymous sperm donor. Bio Mother leaves wife with child. Bio mother "finds God" rejects homosexuality. Bio mother decides ex-spouse is "the devil" and refuses contact.(Can you not see this being in reverse very easily and instead the lesbian mom finding the born again to be "the devil" and withholding contact?)
Bio mom's withholding of contact forms basis for court to find non-biological spouse has custody. Bio Mom runs rather than give non-biological parent custody.
What facts make this not a new issue before the family courts?
What say you about this case? What would you have done? Custody to the "step-parent". Notice bio mom does not harm child, only denies contact with non-bio-related spouse.
Sorry, been following the Miller-Jenkins issue for over 2 years now.......your link is to an old story back in 2009.

The latest is that they believe they know where Lisa Miller is and they are working on a plan to get the child back!!!

Sorry, but Janet Jenkins in the eyes of the Court is not a "STEP" parent, but the "OTHER" parent.......and she is listed that way in both the Vermont Court records as well as the Virginia Court Records!!!

What I know is this.....Janet Jenkins has NEVER harmed the child......Lisa Miller has by telling outrageous lies about Janet not only to the child but to the courts as well.....ALL HAVE BEEN UNFOUNDED!!!

If this was a straight woman who had done this to her ex husband.......EVERYONE would be up in arms about it.....but because it's just some Lesbian....who cares, right? They we're legally in a Civil Union when this child was born.....therefore Janet is a Parent to this child and followed the Court's orders to the letter.....Lisa is the one who ran when she didn't get her way!!!
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130674 Feb 28, 2012
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
so marriage equality for all expect the polygamist... f the polygamist...what a moral high ground!
In case it isn't OBVIOUS to you, polygamy is a choice being gay/lesbian is NOT.And that is just one reason why the two issues have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other

But, as I have ALREADY STATED many times, I have no problem with polygamy. Is that clear enough for you?

“What Goes Around, Comes Around”

Since: Mar 07

Kansas City, MO.

#130675 Feb 28, 2012
Polygamy, plural marriage.....whatever you want to call it.....GO FOR IT! It's YOUR baby! It will NEVER EVER be the same as SSM! NOBODY gives a rats azz!!!!!! If 3 gay men want to marry take them with you on your quest! Report back when you are DONE!

YUK!YUK!YUK!

BACK TO TOPIC

NEXT!

ROTFL!
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130677 Feb 28, 2012
Frank Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
You said only idiots go to combat.


No, I said that YOU as a WHITE MALE must have been an idiot since you could not figure out how to get out of going the Vietnam.

At the height of the war (1965-69) black men, who formed 11 percent of the American population, made up 12.6 percent of the soldiers in Vietnam.

The MAJORITY of these were in the infantry and the percentage of black combat fatalities in that period was (a staggering) 14.9 percent.

I could make a pretty good case for most current combat soldiers coming from poverty, being under educated and having few options besides joining the military.
Reality

Bellows Falls, VT

#130678 Feb 28, 2012
The Lady Doctor wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow you sure did read a lot into my comments. I am pretty sure that my husband and father of our six biological and three adopted children is sure going to be surprised that I hate men!
<quoted text>
BIAS? A bias like YOUR bias against lesbian parents being allowed contact with their children after the relationship fails? My probably agree about the wallet part. But only because I was smart enough to marry a man who can provide for my in the manner I was already accustom who I was also sure would be a wonderful father to our children.
<quoted text>
A man has no right to his sperm after it leave his body. and knowing this should behave accordingly.
However knowing where the person you are about to merge with stands on abortion/pregnancy/adoption BEFORE having sex without a condom would be helpful. Or BETTER YET establishing a long term, mutually committed relationship BEFORE you have sex in the first place.
<quoted text>
And in my experience (15 years of OB/GYN) women that use men as unwitting sperm donors with the resources to do so generally do take full responsibility..
<quoted text>
I doubt there are very many women who have babies for the big payday they get by collecting public assistance.
But are you aware that most of the contested child support cases are initiated by DA's on behalf of women collecting public assistance and most requires the "father" to fork over between $50. and $100. a month directly to the STATE AFTER paternity is established?
The topic continues to be OFF TOPIC and the bottom line is still the same.
Yes, you always assume bad dads and good moms. You hate men.

So its a woman's choice to have the baby on her own and have the PUBLIC fund it? That's your position? Have you ever been anywhere where PUBLIC assistance is considered a payday? If not you should get out more. My little sister (from big brothers big sisters) and all of her family sisters had more kids for more public assistance money. They used to cheer pregnancies for that reason. No Joke!

Same as you put the onus on the FATHER to find out if she is pro life, so should SHE find out the father's intentions if pregnant. IF HE IS PRO-LIFE.
Every bit of it you try to put on men is applicable to the woman.
Her choice was to " establishing a long term, mutually committed relationship BEFORE you have sex in the first place."

You write like all men are predators and all women are saints.

"women that use men as unwitting sperm donors with the resources to do so generally do take full responsibility."

So its okay for them to use the man and throw him away..hey its a woman's CHOICE right?

Why do men not have this same option?
Why can they not have the baby and toss ole mom once she pops and foot the entire bill?

The baby is in the mom's body, but she consenting to carrying it by consenting to intercourse (the act of reproducing)!

All I am saying is if we are to have equal rights, the rights need to be EQUAL. You obviously disagree and think we should have an equal right for a woman to have the choice and the man to have the bill.

Put another way, If daddy opts for abortion and mommy ignores, daddy should be off the hook and vice versa. Either way it has to be one rule that applies to both sexes EQUALLY.

A "woman's right to choose" is chauvinism. Either the parents are in it together or they are not.
SpamOlater

Monrovia, CA

#130679 Feb 28, 2012
Newer models offer tear-gas.
Reality

Bellows Falls, VT

#130681 Feb 28, 2012
The Lady Doctor wrote:
<quoted text>
In case it isn't OBVIOUS to you, polygamy is a choice being gay/lesbian is NOT.And that is just one reason why the two issues have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other
But, as I have ALREADY STATED many times, I have no problem with polygamy. Is that clear enough for you?
oh boy...how do you not see that you do to polygamist exactly what they do to gays.

to them Polygamy is a calling from god...

yes they do. You cite all the same reason against polygamy that you call hate when cited against gays. Polygamy as a marriage right itself is instructive in a conversation about marriage rights as well as a strong indicator of hypocrisy.

So you assume polygamy is a choice like so many gay rights opposers who say gay is a choice...that had to feel funny for you to write knowing I would throw it back at you.

You know gay is a calling from birth, but THEY say its a choice. How did you feel saying polygamy is a choice? Like a bigot?

I don't think you hate anyone as I don't hate anyone. I am only showing that gays calling opposition hate is the same as me calling you a hater of polygamy by analogy as I understand you are not really a hater. There is no logical connection on either count. Thats my point!
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#130682 Feb 28, 2012
Technically...I am not so sure polygamy should be illegal.

I think it's a crazy idea myself, as one woman is plenty trouble enough if you pick them like I do, but illegal?

Why, exactly?
Reality

Bellows Falls, VT

#130683 Feb 28, 2012
Imprtnrd wrote:
Polygamy, plural marriage.....whatever you want to call it.....GO FOR IT! It's YOUR baby! It will NEVER EVER be the same as SSM! NOBODY gives a rats azz!!!!!! If 3 gay men want to marry take them with you on your quest! Report back when you are DONE!
YUK!YUK!YUK!
BACK TO TOPIC
NEXT!
ROTFL!
"Domestic partnership, gay marriage....whatever you want to call it.....GO FOR IT! It's YOUR baby! It will NEVER EVER be the same as straight marriage! NOBODY gives a rats azz!!!!!!"

See how that works?
SpamOlater

Monrovia, CA

#130686 Feb 28, 2012
SpamOlater also removes RUST.
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130687 Feb 28, 2012
Reality wrote:
Yes, you always assume bad dads and good moms. You hate men.


I often make comments about crappy mothers. So do you have a reading comprehension problem? Or do you just not bother to read the reply's to your increasingly long winded rants?
Reality wrote:
So its a woman's choice to have the baby on her own and have the PUBLIC fund it? That's your position?
It's not my position it's the law. My position, since you asked is that a woman who decides to keep a child she can not support physically or emotionally is nine times out of ten incompetent to parent. However that does not mean that we as society should turn our backs on the child. However I also think that subsequent pregnancies (except in cases of rape or incest) should NOT be subsidized by additional benefits.

And actually, this makes a pretty good case against polygamy since the (well documented) social costs of polygamy are quite high. Domestic battering, forced marriages and sexual abuse of minor girls, welfare fraud and tax fraud and lack of educational opportunities are rampant in polygamist communities.

One of my biggest issues with polygamist having children. Widespread reliance on welfare and the unusually high levels of CHILD POVERTY.

The TV series "Big Love" aside, according to the 1997 U.S. Census there are areas in Utah EVERY school-age child is living below the poverty level, The legal wife is declares on a mans taxes but the other wives as "single mothers" ofter get benefits including cash assistance, food stamps and free medical care for them selves and multiple children. Medicaid pays for more than 1/3 of the babies born in Utah.

Oh dear, it looks like I just built a pretty strong case, at least where CHILDREN are concerned for there being a "compelling government interest" to justify existing laws against polygamy.

But Frank, you can still have all the husbands and wives you want as long as you agree not to breed.

The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130688 Feb 28, 2012
Strel wrote:
Technically...I am not so sure polygamy should be illegal.

I think it's a crazy idea myself, as one woman is plenty trouble enough if you pick them like I do,

but illegal? Why, exactly?
One of my biggest issues with polygamist having children. is the widespread reliance on welfare and the unusually high levels of CHILD POVERTY.

The TV series "Big Love" aside, according to the 1997 U.S. Census there are areas in Utah EVERY school-age child is living below the poverty level, Assuming he even work, the legal wife is declared on a man's taxes but the other wives as "single mothers" often get benefits including cash assistance, food stamps and free medical care for them selves and multiple children. Medicaid pays for more than 1/3 of the babies born in Utah.

We have a larger that average family and we support our children without any assistance. IMO if a man want eight wives and 32 kids, he needs to be able to support eight wives and 32 kids.

No one has a right to expect taxpayers to pay the cost of their religious convictions.
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130690 Feb 28, 2012
Frank Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
Off topic blather... Does that make my position that marriage should be allowed for every consenting adult that wants it wrong? Of course not. Does that make your position that some groups don't deserve equal rights correct? Of course not. Try again.


I don't need to try again because I don't give a crap how many husbands and wives you have in you dreams.

I have already made a pretty good case against you idiotic off topic argument.

And you have become tiresome and repetitive.
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130691 Feb 28, 2012
Frank Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
This is an atrocious example of ignorance and bigotry against group marriage. Despicable. If this hateful ignorance were used against same sex marriage it would make you scream bloody murder.
Except the case I was making, that high rates of social service fraud, resource abuse and child poverty is very well documented among polygamist in Utah.

The same case CAN NOT be made for same sex marriage so your "argument" is untenable.

Care to try again?

“What Goes Around, Comes Around”

Since: Mar 07

Kansas City, MO.

#130692 Feb 28, 2012
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
"Domestic partnership, gay marriage....whatever you want to call it.....GO FOR IT! It's YOUR baby! It will NEVER EVER be the same as straight marriage! NOBODY gives a rats azz!!!!!!"
See how that works?
Jokes on you ....we have it!ROTFL
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130693 Feb 28, 2012
Frank Rizzo wrote:
P.S. If you think I am also the poster "Reality" you're really dumb. But fine, it makes your responses to both of us extra stupid.
Your kidding right? I was just acknowledging your right to marry as many men and women as will have you, which at last count was ZERO.

PS: You could not write posts as articulate has "Reality" has of your life depended on it.
The Lady Doctor

Vancouver, WA

#130694 Feb 28, 2012
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
"Domestic partnership, gay marriage....whatever you want to call it.....GO FOR IT! It's YOUR baby! It will NEVER EVER be the same as straight marriage! NOBODY gives a rats azz!!!!!!"
See how that works?
So YOU have been posting here pretty much non-stop for the past few day because You don't give a rat's azz? OK then...

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