King Harbor rezoning gets Redondo Beach boiling again

sb politico wrote:

Jim Light and his crazies will once again throw a monkey wrench into any efforts to improve our great city. All they want is to obstruct; offering only silly options that add no pragmatic benefit. The last great hope to upgrade our city will be caught in yet another stranglehold of petition drives, dilusional conspiracy theories, paranoid accusations, etc. And in the end they will accomplish their goals of nothing. It really is getting very boring.

I think the one who had the most to do with obstructing the last major plan for the Harbor area is now sitting up on the dais, Councilman Cagle. But you are right, the loons seem obsessed with the EIR and will probably use that to derail any plan from progressing. I didn't go to the meeting because there is nothing new to say that the Council hasn't heard a million times before, but I watched it on TV. Councilmen Aust and Cagle did a good job of explaining why this is needed and what the project will not be. Councilman Diehls was his usual snarky self and demeaning to the public.

Richies Conscience wrote:

<quoted text>
Some...It is mostly a standby power plant in case the grid needs more power.
It takes up a huge amount of space. Most of the physical plant is dead and long ago retired. It is a "Stalin like" building that has an amazing 180 degree ocean view.
Everybody wants a piece of it. Except the boaters in the harbor. They have their great view. They all want us to just go away and leave them to their own private paradise.
Oh one more thing. This multi national power company wants to build thousands of condos on the site.....but they want taxpayers cover many of the costs. They almost pulled it off.....Redondo City Hall isn't a great brain trust.

Since the de-reguation of the power industry in California, almost every plant in the state is a "standby" plant. Nobody is dispatched unless they are economicall viable, or there is an urgent need on the grid to maintain Voltage, Frequency, and Consumer demand.

The units at Redondo that were retired were commissioned in 1947 and were built with 1930's technology. They became prohibitively expensive to repair since parts to repair them were no longer available. Those 4 units were putting out approximatley 300 Megawatts at the time they were retired in 1988.

The remaining units put out about 1300 Megawatts combined when running at full load. Since they are natural gas burning units, they put out relatively little CO2, and are controlled to put out very little NOx (nitric oxides) since California has the strictest environmental policies in the country.

AES spent over 2 million dollars on environmental studies, developmental ideas, and general preparation when they were planning the condos there. Contrary to popular belief, they were going to foot most of the bill for the development of that land in partnership with the city, who would then profit from the final product.

sb politico wrote:

Jim Light and his crazies will once again throw a monkey wrench into any efforts to improve our great city. All they want is to obstruct; offering only silly options that add no pragmatic benefit. The last great hope to upgrade our city will be caught in yet another stranglehold of petition drives, dilusional conspiracy theories, paranoid accusations, etc. And in the end they will accomplish their goals of nothing. It really is getting very boring.

Hey SB politico

Your position is absolutely unsupportable and you really don't know what you are talking about. Lets deal with the facts since you brought up dilusional conspiracy theories, paranoid accusations, etc.

Fact: The failure of the Heart of the City is simple...money. RB City Hall twice failed to secure Redevelopment funding because LA County would not "blight" the Harbor. This happened long before the slow growth initiative.

Fact: The second Referendum petition against the Catalina Redevelopment zone actually saved RB from a $100 million dollar mistake by the RB City Hall when AES had their property taxes re-assessed. No other legal remedy existed besides this petition drive to release RB from this debacle.

You should know that because it essentially preserved your options to argue the merits of developing the Harbor instead of having it financially under water for decades.

Need more examples?

The truth is that your side of the argument has, and has always had, the 2nd string in the game. The fighting among themselves and their attempts undermine each other for political and financial gain have effected the outcome far more than anything Jim Light could possibly hope to do.
Any random person pulled off the street could have done a better job.

One last thing....dilusional is spelled like this: delusional. You should know that because later you may face the same name calling yourself when your grand plan fails and sucks RB under.

They can plan all they want.
In the current economic climate, it's not a sure thing that there will be financing for either the developers or, worse, their prospective tennants once they've started the projects.
In the short term, at best nothing will come of it -- at worst, vacant lots or massive developments will stand empty for years, as did the mall in Hermosa on PCH after the end of the last bubble.
In the longer term, the lax zoning will lead to surprises (and petitions and lawsuits over those surprises) when the economy recovers enough to enable development to proceed.

Adding any more development at the waterfront enlarges the voting block of those with an ocean view. The folks in the condos have proven themselves to only have one care about the city of Redondo and that is their view. Can the city really afford more votes like that?
And by the way, most of the boaters don't live in Redondo. All they care about is that no one looks or gets too close to them or their boats.
This development at the harbor has already taken the beach, which is supposedly for EVERYONE and turned it into a harbor, a place only for those who can afford it. More development is not the answer. Over development has already turned this area into a mess. Stop trying to fit a round peg into a square hole.

As a life long native, can anyone to tell me how development here in Recondo has made improvements in the last 40 years. Destroying downtown? Condos? SeaPort Village? Performing Arts Center? How about the traffic mess created by running Catalina under the King Harbor sign? The last great development was the Harbor. Long Live the Powerplant! I wish I could get a burger at the Tumble Inn!

sb politico wrote:

Jim Light and his crazies will once again throw a monkey wrench into any efforts to improve our great city. All they want is to obstruct; offering only silly options that add no pragmatic benefit. The last great hope to upgrade our city will be caught in yet another stranglehold of petition drives, dilusional conspiracy theories, paranoid accusations, etc. And in the end they will accomplish their goals of nothing. It really is getting very boring.

Beach Riff Raff wrote:

As a life long native, can anyone to tell me how development here in Recondo has made improvements in the last 40 years. Destroying downtown?
<quoted text>

I lived in Hermosa Beach for the 1st 49 years of my life. I wonder how many people even realize that Recondo Beach used to have a downtown?

Richies Conscience wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey SB politico
Your position is absolutely unsupportable and you really don't know what you are talking about. Lets deal with the facts since you brought up dilusional conspiracy theories, paranoid accusations, etc.
Fact: The failure of the Heart of the City is simple...money. RB City Hall twice failed to secure Redevelopment funding because LA County would not "blight" the Harbor. This happened long before the slow growth initiative.
Fact: The second Referendum petition against the Catalina Redevelopment zone actually saved RB from a $100 million dollar mistake by the RB City Hall when AES had their property taxes re-assessed. No other legal remedy existed besides this petition drive to release RB from this debacle.
You should know that because it essentially preserved your options to argue the merits of developing the Harbor instead of having it financially under water for decades.
Need more examples?
The truth is that your side of the argument has, and has always had, the 2nd string in the game. The fighting among themselves and their attempts undermine each other for political and financial gain have effected the outcome far more than anything Jim Light could possibly hope to do.
Any random person pulled off the street could have done a better job.
One last thing....dilusional is spelled like this: delusional. You should know that because later you may face the same name calling yourself when your grand plan fails and sucks RB under.

Perhaps the DB needs a spell check.

All said, you use the same tired arguments we have heard over and over. Question, what financial gain do the decision makers stand to make? None. These are hard working men trying to do the best they can as elected officials. It is thankless and exhausting, made more difficult by one issue crusaders who like to critisize from a distance with no accountability. Old arguments. Paranoid? Delusional? Fact-Yes.

sb politico wrote:

<quoted text>
Question, what financial gain do the decision makers stand to make? None.

Here is just one answer. Reelection!

sb politico wrote:

<quoted text>
Perhaps the DB needs a spell check.
All said, you use the same tired arguments we have heard over and over. Question, what financial gain do the decision makers stand to make? None. These are hard working men trying to do the best they can as elected officials. It is thankless and exhausting, made more difficult by one issue crusaders who like to critisize from a distance with no accountability. Old arguments. Paranoid? Delusional? Fact-Yes.

SB

So your counter argument is...yes I know that the Council is incompetent...but they work really hard at it. Is that it?

Like I said, anyone off the street can do that. You can't make a $100 million Dollar mistake and expect people to trust you. Especially while you are calling them idiots, paranoids, and conspiracy theorists.

Time to re-think your argument because clearly you have the tired argument and it isn't working for you. The people who oppose you aren't even trying very hard and yet they beat you over and over.

I suggest that you begin and end your argument
with the facts. Elected Officials must account for the taxpayers money. Guessing just isn't an accepted part of serious accounting as it is practiced widely in the Private Sector.

You just don't seem bothered at all by the fact enormous and expensive mistakes were made. Even that these same mistakes are the very reason why you have the problems with your opponents today.

That makes you very dangerous and why people like Jim Light don't trust you. I don't much like him myself but he has an MBA and an Engineering Degree
but more importantly he can add and subtract...a bare minimum.

There is nothing paranoid about noticing that something is wrong. You just can't get over the fact the some incompetent people got elected a few years ago then got suckered in to a bad land deal that couldn't ever work.

There is no conspiracy, just some very bright people in the community with brain and a calculator telling you that you "vision" doesn't pencil out financially. Neither does the park but that doesn't validate your flawed "vision". No matter how many "hard working men" are on the Council you have to have a real argument if you want my vote.

"What financial gain do the decision makers stand to make?" I said attempting financial gain. This all started with a Council that had 3 Realtors
who had abitions of becoming the next Donald Trump. Insert delusional here. Seeking financial gain and obtaining it are two very different things.

Case in point, your Chamber of Commerce doesn't even have the 2nd string in the game. The second string walked away long ago. When people who are not successful in business themselves tell people like me who me who actually are sucessful that they what is best for me I just have to laugh. Especially at the cost of potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

Try to get a grip. This is never going to happen in your lifetime. The ship has sailed. AES doesn't trust you and half the city doesn't trust you.
You backed the wrong horse.

Electricity maker wrote:

<quoted text>
....Since they are natural gas burning units, they put out relatively little CO2,...

lol... you work in the industry and you don't even know basic science taught in high school chemistry. Natural gas (CH4) in perfect combustion puts out nothing but CO2 and H2O. Since natural gas is more efficient at combusting than coal almost every carbon atom gets turned into CO2. Whereas in a coal power plant much of the carbon is left uncombusted and gets ejected as soot instead of CO2.

Natural gas is definetly better for the environment but NOT because it puts "out relatively little CO2."

bz in rb wrote:

<quoted text>
lol... you work in the industry and you don't even know basic science taught in high school chemistry. Natural gas (CH4) in perfect combustion puts out nothing but CO2 and H2O. Since natural gas is more efficient at combusting than coal almost every carbon atom gets turned into CO2. Whereas in a coal power plant much of the carbon is left uncombusted and gets ejected as soot instead of CO2.
Natural gas is definetly better for the environment but NOT because it puts "out relatively little CO2."

Apparently, you high school didn't teach you about steam generators. Here's how it actually breaks down: Natural gas burns cleaner than other fossil fuels, such as oil and coal, and produces less carbon dioxide per unit energy released. For an equivalent amount of heat, burning natural gas produces about 30% less carbon dioxide than burning petroleum and about 45% less than burning coal.[14] Combined cycle power generation using natural gas is thus the cleanest source of power available using fossil fuels, and this technology is widely used wherever gas can be obtained at a reasonable cost. Fuel cell technology may eventually provide cleaner options for converting natural gas into electricity, but as yet it is not price-competitive. Apparently, they didn't teach english at your high school either. The word relatively means: to a relative degree or extent. I would reiterate that 45% less CO2 is relatively less. Check your facts next time, or don't you use facts in your high school?

Where is the PROOF That CO2 causes global warming anyways?

You have not really looked at both sides fairly. Jim Light, BBR and other residents have pointed out blatant flaws in Redondo's pencil whipped EIR's. If not for the actions of responsible and informed Residents, Redondo would have 3000 more condos where the powerplant is.

The current initiative is largely aimed at putting zoning changes from commercial to residential uses to a vote of the people. Residential housing represents a net loss to the city. The initiative provides a much needed check and balance ensuring that the concerns of current residents are weighed and acted upon. Developers will come through with balanced projects with the initiative.

Residents should applaud BBR and Light.

sb politico wrote:

Jim Light and his crazies will once again throw a monkey wrench into any efforts to improve our great city. All they want is to obstruct; offering only silly options that add no pragmatic benefit. The last great hope to upgrade our city will be caught in yet another stranglehold of petition drives, dilusional conspiracy theories, paranoid accusations, etc. And in the end they will accomplish their goals of nothing. It really is getting very boring.