Proposition 8 made me quit the Mormon church

just me wrote:

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hmm,i dont recall being angry or resentful at all. i was simply stating my opinion.apparently, that is not allowed when in reference to you and your postings.

Sorry, just me, I thought you were all bent out of shape for what I had written. Opinions, by the way, I do admit, I find problematic for that very reason:THEY ARE OPINIONS. How about, the facts. pure and simple. I went to a conference in San Francisco, and the person with whom I was conversing disagreed with me vehemently. I mean he was becoming unglued. But you know what? He offered me facts. Facts for every single disagreement. One can opine, for instance all day, about whether one should shake a rattle to 'scare away the evil spirits', causing one to suffer from a bacterial infection. Or, start a program of antibiotics to clear the infection.(Be sure, when undergoing the antibiotic course, to ingest yogurt which contain live acidophilus cultures-they help replace the natural state of the GI tract).

The Rob wrote:

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Wow, I always thought this kind of stupidity was reserved for people riding the short bus. You know, when I think of the deterioration of of society, I think of events such as the holocaust, the spanish inquisition. Humanity as done some truly WICKED, EVIL things in the name of MORAL ETHICS.
I am a member of the LDS Church but I firmly stand against a religious institution forcing their views on other people. FACT, prop 8 would have passed with or without the help of the LDS Church. Similar legislation's were passed in 1998, 2000, and 2004.
I sure hope my open minded thought process isn't too much for you to handle. I would hate for someone to make you produce a rational thought all on your own.

And when I think of what Humanity has done in the name of atheism-well, those things done in the name of MORAL ETHICS, the atrocious ones, they pale, absolutely, in comparison. The two bloodiest regimes alone in the 20th Century were atheist-Nazism and Communism. There are those who disagree with me on this one, especially as concerns the Nazis. What they will never, ever, explain to me is how they reconcile away the numerous statements made and beleived in by Hitler AS CONCERNS RELIGION-ESPECIALLY JUDAEO-CHRISTIANITY.(THROW IN AS WELL A HEFTY DOSE OF SOCIAL DARWINISM, WHICH HITLER DID, INTO THIS PSYCHOPATHICALLY 'MORALLY AND ETHICALLY FREE' BREW. THE RESULT? A SECOND WORLD WAR, THE HOLOCAUST, ETC.) Just one statement alone by Hitler is illustrative:"Religion, especially of the self-pitying 'Jewish-Christian' kind, has absolutely no place in the 'New Order' of National Socialism. Indeed, Religion, with it's debased notions of 'helping the poor, the sick, of loving those less fortunate', is nothing but a hindrance to the proper evolution of Mankind. Namely-THE STRONG-NOT THE WEAK-SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH!Those who cannot survive this titanic struggle of the superior versus the inferior are to be sterilized, worked to death, and yes-disposed of. It cannot be any other way.Let us never forget that Christ was, after all, A JEW. N ational Socialism cannot, it will not, tolerate religion and it's ethics of pity." History shows that Hitler and the Nazis(especially the black clad S.S. with skull and crossed-bones insignia)made very good on this philosophy.

This is an argument, I already know, that will go on and on. Again, however, those who disagree will have an entire truckload to answer for.

Concerned wrote:

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Yes it does affect all of society. The strong back bone of a good society is the family. The family with a good mother and father with good moral ethics is the glue that any culture needs for success. Homosexuality is a deteriation of these values. You are blind if you think that the gay community is just having their agenda behind closed doors.

I absolutely, 100 percent agree with you. Not only do I firmly agree, I beleive that the sociological, biological and historical facts agree with you as well. I am not saying, however, that the man-woman biolgical parent raising child with morals is an absolute recipe for success. I do not beleive any field of human endeavor always comes out perfect. However, that does not change the facts-the best, absolutely no question about it, environment for a child(ren), the absolute ideal, is always a loving home with the presence of THE NATURAL, BIOLGICAL PARENTS. I MEAN-THIS IS SO OBVIOUS, IT'S AN INSULT TO THE LISTENERER THAT IT EVEN MUST BE SAID. No, what we are actually being fed, the argument from the PC crowd, is that 'alternatives are just as good as the way it was always meant to be'. Let us look at that, shall we, by way of an analogy.Let us see if it holds water.Hypothetical scenario:John Smith is an adult with a full set of teeth, we'll say he is 55 years of age. No cavities, no bridge work, no dentures. All his own, original, well taken care of teeth, maybe a little yellowed.(He has, after all, had them, for half a century.)John can eat apples, corn on the cob, nuts, grains, you name it!!!!!!!JUST THE WAY IT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE. Now, Bill Greene is also 55 years of age. He, however, has no natural teeth. No, he lived differently than John Smith. He let his teeth go, for whatever reason. But hey!!!You know what?!!!!He lives with artificial teeth. That is right. No different than John Smith-he too can eat corn on the cob, nuts, apples, pears, steak, etc, etc. Some might even say-with dentures, I can consume even better than with my own original teeth I had!!!Guess what-any dentist, indeed, anyone with common sense knows that the ideal is to have your own natural teeth-the way God intended,. REPEAT-THE WAY GOD INTENDED. Life being what it is, we cannot always have the perfect disease free teeth of "John Smith"-it doesn't matter. We strive for what we know is the best ideal situation, regardless. We certainly do not make excuses for walking around with rotten teeth or excusing away why so-and-so feels that 'to me, brushing and flossing is just plain wrong!!!!!'I live in alternative way'. No, if anything, we try to uphold ideals in this imperfect world and show others the error of their ways, not add to them.

And next comes those who disagree-I met a couple of questionable types in Appalachia. Maybe you can share some of your 'understanding' for those with an alternative lifestyle, maybe you can share some of that all encompassing non judgmental love for those who rape sows in the barnyard.After all-judgments on those who deviate from the religion-based admonitions are nothing but hate. Hate-and that is something that the 'enlightened ones who are spoon fed PC love' never engage in. As I have stated before-there should be laws sanctioning bestiality and polygamy as well, not just homosexual-marriage<IF, AND ONLY IF, THE PRO-GAY MARRIAGE, IT'S PREMISE, IS ACTUALLY CORRECT>. Reality, not PC ad hominem attacks, but actual Reality, clearly, unequivocably shows, that bestiality, polygamy, etc. IS JUST AS NORMAL FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE AS IS HETEROSEXUALITY. The only reason it is not considered in this discussion is because it has not been made a part of the national discussion as of late. That is the only reason. Somehow, funnily enough, I get the strange feeling that those who advocate gay-marriage would suddenly run out of 'non-judgmental Bible-free hatreds', and not find themselves quite so vociferous when it comes to these people's absolutely valid(if put to the vote)agendas.Suddenly, like a shot of lightning, the Bible and it's 'hate-talk', doesn't seem so buffonish after all. And that is the problem, a major one, I have, with the pro gay-marriage argument.

"This aint my scene, man, you dig?! I mean, what the Man is doin' to Mother Earth, that's a heavy number to lay down, you dig? This is some heavy karma, Robbie my boy!!!!I had to get out of the city, dig, and hit the 4 winds. Too plastic, dig?!!!!!I'm runnin' my trip down to you, man,'cause I really beleive in this, man!!!!!!"And the grizzled old self styled 'mountain man' really did. These things he related to me while I was in Appalachia. Guess what-unlike the PC crowd-he REALLY meant what he espoused. He really did. No automobile, no electricity, no usage of paper, etc. So even though we disagreed-I can respect his argument more because it isd completely devoid of PC double-speak hypocrisy.