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minuteman

Nortonville, KY

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#3
Mar 12, 2012
 
citizen wrote:
<quoted text> Im reading what you wrote, yeah I remember little stoney point and big stoney point, was the place to go swim in summertime yrs ago, doubt if anyone can get back there now, was a good fishing spot also, wonder who put up fences on tht road leading into it, surely there is a way to go back there still
You are right, used to be the old swimming hole. The original stony point thread that I started on the form is no longer responding for some reason, or it won't let me back on it anyway.


One gentleman I can't remember his screen name but he was talking about the fence being put up to.
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#4
Mar 12, 2012
 
Alternative fuel has nothing to do with it. Its all about duck hunting lease money and good ole Hopkins County Kentucky Politics. Ill imagine the County Judge or County Attorney sent a letter to Topix.net causing the thread to be removed.

There is a illegal gate placed on a little side road out near the bridge that crosses clear creek out on Highway #293 and that gate was put up across a dirt road that people used to drive down to launch their boats into clear creek.
That little dirt road was constantly maintained by local outdoorsmen going back for over three generations before that gate was put up. There was always someone from the Providence and Dalton Area that was hauling rock and brick down there and filling in mud holes and tire ruts to allow trucks and boat trailers to have easier access to the creek. Any of the older outdoorsmen from the Dalton Area can name someone they have witnessed filling in the holes and tire ruts at one time or another on that little dirt road. Therefore it can never be said the road was abandoned and or never been properly maintained in a practical manner.
The Hwy #293 gate was challenged by the locals and a certain Hopkins County lawyer "volunteered" to help them challenge as the the legality of the gate being there. Little did the locals know it was a behind the doors set up deal where the lawyer was deliberately introduced into the situation to make sure the gate was im-properly challenged in a court of law. This was to guarantee the gate would not be removed thus keeping the locals from having access to the creek for hunting purposes.
There is a individual who oversees the Highway Right Of Ways who has a parcel of ground somewhere on that creek and he was responsible for allowing the gate to be erected. The same overseeing individual was also responsible for the No Parking signs being put up on the side of HWY #109 (less than a quarter of a mile from the illegaly placed bubble lake gate) so that no one could park a truck on the side of HWY #109. The signs were put there to prevent boats from being launched into what is called Clear Creek.
There are also red and white "NO TRESSPASSING" signs in the middle of the two creeks Weirs Creek and Clear Creeks that forbid anyone from being physically present on those creeks. What has happened is greedy and somewhat wealthy individuals with the help of the Hopkins County Court System have taken the law into their own hands and have pretty much stolen the creek away from the common citizens. So what you have is the lawful right for all citizens to have access to those two public creeks and then you have a small handfull of self appointed dictators who with the help of the county court system who are forbiding anyone from having access to those creeks.

But no one will attempt to do anything about it. People simply lay down like spinless little peasants and allow these tyrants to walk them into the ground. Everyone is bowing down with the hopes of receiving crumbs from the tables and being allowed to hunt the creek area. They have adopted the idea that if they should actually say something they will run the risk of possibly being able to someday hunt the creek area. But they are too simple minded to realize if they havent got permission by now fat chance they will ever have permission to hunt the creeks.

Its about time to call the ACLU and bring lawsuit to get this problem fixed for once and for all.
And when you post here you need to save a copy to WORD so you can repost again after your info has been removed due to political pressure and pursuasion.
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#5
Mar 12, 2012
 
Several years ago i heard these tyrants actually had state police and privately employed lawyers present out on HWY #293 walking up and down the road telling citizens they wer forbidden from launching a boat into Clear Creek waters.
I know for a fact that folks have been outnumbered and threatened with physical violence by the individuals who put the posted signs up in the middle of the creek. So if you dont want to be assaulted by a organized gang of thugs it is adivsable that a person should have a firearm with them if they are anywhere near any of the bridges on Clear Creek and Weirs Creek.
Hunter.

United States

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#6
Mar 12, 2012
 
Looks like to me land owners on clear creek have came together to be able to hunt there own property that they purchased and pay taxes on. Shame on them. Lol
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#7
Mar 12, 2012
 
If thats what it looks like to you then you need to get your eyes checked. Because what is actually happening is the landowners are attempting to seize control of what are lawfully defined as publicly owned and publicly navigable waterways.
And they have also erected NO TRESSPASSING SIGNS in the middle of those publicly owned waterways whereby the signs serve no practical or usefull purpose. Basicly they have commited criminal acts of littering by trashing up a public waterway with useless junk aka signs.
citizen

Madisonville, KY

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#8
Mar 13, 2012
 
CrappieMan wrote:
If thats what it looks like to you then you need to get your eyes checked. Because what is actually happening is the landowners are attempting to seize control of what are lawfully defined as publicly owned and publicly navigable waterways.
And they have also erected NO TRESSPASSING SIGNS in the middle of those publicly owned waterways whereby the signs serve no practical or usefull purpose. Basicly they have commited criminal acts of littering by trashing up a public waterway with useless junk aka signs.
We first started talking about stoney point, not clear creek, whats the deal on it? Is there other ways to get back there?
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#9
Mar 13, 2012
 
The deal is there is are two gates across the road leading back to bubble lake at stoney point. The first gate where you turn going back towards bubble lake is an illegal gate due to it is blocking a public road leading back to a cemetary. On that gate is a sign that instructs folks to call a number for a key to the gate for access to that cemetary. There shouldnt be a gate there because it is a public roadway leading back to a public cemetary. The county uses a bushhog on the sides of that road so public money is being used to bushhog a public roadway that the public canthave access to.

That original thread was deleted for some reason. Probably county officials contacted topix and threatened topix to have it removed.

That thread about the gate brings up the fact that certain greedy folks who own ground along clear creek and weirs creek have used political influence to keep the public from having access to clear creek and weirs creek. So thats how the subject was turned to the creeks.

But stoney point is all private owned ground and private owned is just what it is. It dont matter how many different ways there is for a person to get back there if a person dont have permission from the land owners they are commiting a crminal act of tresspassing. And i think tresspassing is a felony.
bASSman

United States

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#10
Mar 13, 2012
 
Let me start by saying that I understand the frustration of not having good access to clear creek. I love hunting and fishing and I think it's for everyone to enjoy. However trying to say that a little dirt road that dead ends into personal property has an illegal gate across it is foolish. I find it disturbing that just because the landowners of the two properties you are referring to were nice enough to allow people to use their land that you or anyone else thinks it belongs to you ("the public") furthermore I'm confident that the landowner didn't request any rock or brick to fill in potholes and ruts that were put there by the same outdoorsman that filled them up!
People need to realize that both properties that you are referring to were up for sale, anyone could've purchased them and done whatever they wanted with them, that's the American way. As far as that goes there are 1000s of acres joining clear creek maybe you should buy some and make a public ramp on it. I can see the headlines now- local man purchases 100 acres on clear creek and has local outdoorsmen haul in loads of brick and rock to build boat ramp and parking lot! Thank you Mr. Crappie Man.
citizen

Madisonville, KY

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#11
Mar 14, 2012
 
bASSman wrote:
Let me start by saying that I understand the frustration of not having good access to clear creek. I love hunting and fishing and I think it's for everyone to enjoy. However trying to say that a little dirt road that dead ends into personal property has an illegal gate across it is foolish. I find it disturbing that just because the landowners of the two properties you are referring to were nice enough to allow people to use their land that you or anyone else thinks it belongs to you ("the public") furthermore I'm confident that the landowner didn't request any rock or brick to fill in potholes and ruts that were put there by the same outdoorsman that filled them up!
People need to realize that both properties that you are referring to were up for sale, anyone could've purchased them and done whatever they wanted with them, that's the American way. As far as that goes there are 1000s of acres joining clear creek maybe you should buy some and make a public ramp on it. I can see the headlines now- local man purchases 100 acres on clear creek and has local outdoorsmen haul in loads of brick and rock to build boat ramp and parking lot! Thank you Mr. Crappie Man.
Still why put up the no tresspassing signs in clear creek when it is a public waterway? Maybe I could go put up some no tresspassing signs at Belleview Bridge or Montezuma Bridge to keep public from fishing there. Get my point?
justme

United States

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#12
Mar 14, 2012
 
From what my understanding is (and it's limited) What you see now is not what the old deeds were drawn off of. The creeks with the signs use to be alot smaller channels (less than the span of the bridges over them) and were not considered "public waterways" due to beaver dams backing up many of the old creeks around here the levels are alot higher than when the original deeds were drawn up. Most of the deeds I have seen on the creeks mentioned say to the middle of the creek.
so..

Hopkinsville, KY

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#13
Mar 14, 2012
 
I hunt the creek anyway. Especially when the water is high! I've killed many ducks off of these properties, and I don't even know who owns them.
Hunter.

Lancaster, PA

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#14
Mar 14, 2012
 
I feel that all hunters and fisherman should enjoy the outdoors but, also I feel they should ask permission first. If you were to look on the back of your hunting license it states respect landowners ask first. I have researched the clear creek and what I have found it that the creek is known as a blueline stream. Not a navigable water way. Maybe u can do the same research in Frankfort and see what u find. Keep me informed and the info u find. Thanks, happy hunting and fishing.
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#15
Mar 14, 2012
 
bASSman wrote:
Let me start by saying that I understand the frustration of not having good access to clear creek. I love hunting and fishing and I think it's for everyone to enjoy. However trying to say that a little dirt road that dead ends into personal property has an illegal gate across it is foolish. I find it disturbing that just because the landowners of the two properties you are referring to were nice enough to allow people to use their land that you or anyone else thinks it belongs to you ("the public") furthermore I'm confident that the landowner didn't request any rock or brick to fill in potholes and ruts that were put there by the same outdoorsman that filled them up!
People need to realize that both properties that you are referring to were up for sale, anyone could've purchased them and done whatever they wanted with them, that's the American way. As far as that goes there are 1000s of acres joining clear creek maybe you should buy some and make a public ramp on it. I can see the headlines now- local man purchases 100 acres on clear creek and has local outdoorsmen haul in loads of brick and rock to build boat ramp and parking lot! Thank you Mr. Crappie Man.
The information im writing is based on information received from several "old timers" that lived in the dalton and the old twittleville area. Yes there was a place called twittleville that was located near the river on government bend road.

The loads of rock i am refering to were put on the dirt road located near the bridge over clear creek on Hwy #293. The dirt road that leads off Hwy #293 and goes down between the two borrow pits from which dirt was taken to build the HWY #293 levee. It is the road that now has a illegal yellow gate built across it.
That road was unclaimed for years dating back to when dirt was taken from those two pits to build the levee across the creek.
It was a public dirt road that would have been neglected if not for maintenance being performed by those who hunted, fished and trapped the creek and river. The vehicles of that time period were often smaller and were not four wheel drive vehicles so therefore the road was in need of constant repairs on a monthly basis so cars and trucks could use it to access the creek.
My point is the inidividual and associates who arranged to have the gate built will probably argue that it was a non-maintained road that had fallen into years of abandoned neglect therefore he had the right to claim it. But that would be a lie. The sincere truth is it was never allowed to fall into neglect because the outdoorsmen that hunted fished and trapped the creek have constantly maintained the road so that they could have practical access to the creek and river.
As far back as i can remember there would be times we would pull up to that road and could not drive down it because of the ruts. We always knew we could come back a few days later and there would be lines of broken block and rip rap and sand stone placed in the entire length of the ruts. It would be bumpy but you could get in to unload a boat to fish. When i got older i would put at least two "squatting loads" of busted concrete block into the ruts on that road every summer. There was always somebody filling in those ruts on that road.
But im not asking anyone to believe me because all a person would need to do is ask some of the older folks in the dalton and stoney point areas and they will verify this information for you.

And the bubble lake road. That is a county owned road that leads back to a county owned cemetary. That road from its entrance off off the pavement and up to the point of that second gate placed after the cemetary is a free public right of way which should not be obstructed as to prevent the public from having access to that cemetary. And anyone that states they are "nice enough to allow people to use their land" in direct reference to that particular section of public road needs a reality check.
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#16
Mar 14, 2012
 
[QUOTE who="so.. "]I hunt the creek anyway. Especially when the water is high! I've killed many ducks off of these properties, and I don't even know who owns them.[/QUOTE]

I very seriously doubt you have done this due to the fact that you first need to have access to the creek and the situation concerning the creek is so politically jacked up right now that no one can get access to the creek. If webster and hopkins county outdoorsmen dont take a stand it will get even worse.
justme

United States

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#17
Mar 14, 2012
 
[QUOTE who="so.. "]I hunt the creek anyway. Especially when the water is high! I've killed many ducks off of these properties, and I don't even know who owns them.[/QUOTE]

This is the big reason so many people post their land. Many landowners are tired of this type of attitude.
mike

United States

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#18
Mar 14, 2012
 
justme wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the big reason so many people post their land. Many landowners are tired of this type of attitude.
still no reason to post land beside of bridge, no excuse for that
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#19
Mar 14, 2012
 
justme wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the big reason so many people post their land. Many landowners are tired of this type of attitude.
And we are sick and tired of people who buy land next to a creek and then think they own the entire creek. Like the fool who put the yellow gate up on HWY #293 it wasnt enough to put a gate up but then he drove steel fence posts every 12 inches to try to keep people from draging a tin boat off the highway and into the water.
Go out there and look at what the greedy fool done. Those fence posts are driven into the ground on public property.
Hunter.

York, PA

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#20
Mar 14, 2012
 
citizen wrote:
<quoted text>Still why put up the no tresspassing signs in clear creek when it is a public waterway? Maybe I could go put up some no tresspassing signs at Belleview Bridge or Montezuma Bridge to keep public from fishing there. Get my point?
Clear creek not public waterway. Blueline stream. Completely different laws on the two. Check it out
CrappieMan

Evansville, IN

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#21
Mar 14, 2012
 
Beyond a shadow of a doubt when a person enters the mouth of clear creek via the tradewater river they have entered a public waterway. And upon continuing upstream underneath the Hwy #293 bridge they are still navigating a public waterway.
Upon continuing up to the old wood rail road trestle it is still a public waterway. At the confluence of where Weirs Creek enters Clear Creek it is still considered a public waterway.

The point of contention lies in what constitutes a public waterway as opposed to what does not constitute a publicly navigable waterway. This is wherein the grey area lies as to what is private owned waters and public owned waters. And in the near future this grey area point of contention will be clarified and the final decision will not be decided and or defined by local lawers.
Hunter.

York, PA

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#22
Mar 14, 2012
 
CrappieMan wrote:
Beyond a shadow of a doubt when a person enters the mouth of clear creek via the tradewater river they have entered a public waterway. And upon continuing upstream underneath the Hwy #293 bridge they are still navigating a public waterway.
Upon continuing up to the old wood rail road trestle it is still a public waterway. At the confluence of where Weirs Creek enters Clear Creek it is still considered a public waterway.

The point of contention lies in what constitutes a public waterway as opposed to what does not constitute a publicly navigable waterway. This is wherein the grey area lies as to what is private owned waters and public owned waters. And in the near future this grey area point of contention will be clarified and the final decision will not be decided and or defined by local lawers.
I do believe the information you have stated is wrong. The matter has been resolved a few years back in Frankfort. Clear creek & Weirs creek is confirmed to be known as a blue line stream. If it were a public waterway there would be 25-30 trucks at the 109 bridge opening day of duck season. I hear that lots of citations have been written on clear creek. Do u have any info on that?

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