Permit Issued for 2nd New Battery at Clairton Coke Works

In Allegheny County there is a 60% increase in the rate of school children with asthma.
UPMC is initiating a study on this issue.
To learn more here it from the source, Michele Tedder UPMC Community Health Coordinator will be speaking at:
Elrama Fire Hall
17 Elrama Ave.
Elrama, Pa. 15038
Wednesday September 16
7pm-9pm

Come and listen to the facts presented on the effects of fine particulate pollution in our Mon Valley.

C town gal wrote:

In Allegheny County there is a 60% increase in the rate of school children with asthma.
UPMC is initiating a study on this issue.
To learn more here it from the source, Michele Tedder UPMC Community Health Coordinator will be speaking at:
Elrama Fire Hall
17 Elrama Ave.
Elrama, Pa. 15038
Wednesday September 16
7pm-9pm
Come and listen to the facts presented on the effects of fine particulate pollution in our Mon Valley.

Thanks for the info "C Town Gal"

Both the environment AND the cause of justice have been dealt a mortal blow

Here is what will happen next.

Having obtained this permit they will put the second new battery on hold along with the first in the latest economy.

When the deadlines approach they will start another round of corporate poor mouthing -- and the USW will, once again, whine about "job killers".

There will be more hearings and debates. More threats of economic damage to the region by USS/USW -- economic damage which, like the ecological damage gas already occurred.....

.....and the old dump will continue to pollute, block the development of any alternative industries -- and lose out foreign competitors.

While the USW and US Steel continue to pat themselves on their collective backs and tell themselves how wonderful they are and how everybody should honor and respect them......
......even if the foreign steelmakers beat them every single time.

Rally behind the home team, folks! They can break every rule on the books -- and still thow every game

Rasputin wrote:

Here is what will happen next.
Having obtained this permit they will put the second new battery on hold along with the first in the latest economy.
When the deadlines approach they will start another round of corporate poor mouthing -- and the USW will, once again, whine about "job killers".
There will be more hearings and debates. More threats of economic damage to the region by USS/USW -- economic damage which, like the ecological damage gas already occurred.....
.....and the old dump will continue to pollute, block the development of any alternative industries -- and lose out foreign competitors.
While the USW and US Steel continue to pat themselves on their collective backs and tell themselves how wonderful they are and how everybody should honor and respect them......
......even if the foreign steelmakers beat them every single time.
Rally behind the home team, folks! They can break every rule on the books -- and still thow every game

Once again, can you support ANY of your rhetorical rants with news accounts?

9th and Ohio wrote:

<quoted text>
Once again, can you support ANY of your rhetorical rants with news accounts?

Just tell me how a company that relies on obsolete equipment and technologies can ever be competitive and why it deserves anyone's sympathy for its failure against foreign competition.

It's the difference between a team of dedicated professionals dtermined to win and a rabble half-heartedly going through motions. The foreign manufacturers play hard and deserve to win -- USS/USW does not even try; they deserve to fail.

Rasputin wrote:

<quoted text>
Just tell me how a company that relies on obsolete equipment and technologies can ever be competitive and why it deserves anyone's sympathy for its failure against foreign competition.
It's the difference between a team of dedicated professionals dtermined to win and a rabble half-heartedly going through motions. The foreign manufacturers play hard and deserve to win -- USS/USW does not even try; they deserve to fail.

I guess that's a no.

pghphl wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess that's a no.

It means that the USW/USS are incapable of competing with foreign steelmakers and that that is their own doing. It means that people who throw the game are NOT entitled to any respect or sympathy.

The foreign steelmakers worked hard, embraced progress and deserved to win. The opposition made only a half-hearted attempt to go through the motions -- so they lose every time and quite frankly deserve to. The Germans, the Japanese, the Koreans, and more recently the Chinese have embraced traditional American values; these contributed to their success. The USW/USS repudiated these ideals and took one drubbing after another.

Superficially, people, including our own auto industry and others, stopped buying steel made in the MonValley.....but the REAL Americans won.

Rasputin--you are totally correct again, my friend!

Sunshine wrote:

Rasputin--you are totally correct again, my friend!

You would think that now, after all that has happened, the USW would at least admit that their fantasies that new technologies are "job killers" and "conspiracies to break the union" were not only thoroughly asinine but terribly costly. As Ctowngal points out had the USS/USW had a more progressive and open-minded attitude, the ecological AND economic damage of the last half-century simply would not have occurred in the MonValley -- witness her own examples of the Ruhr Valley in Germany as well as the SUCCESSFUL steel industries of Japan and Korea.

I believe these two permits should both be recinded. What have we got to lose? All of the ecological AND environmental damage with which USS/USW is still trying to threaten us has already occurred. At least if that old dump were gone alternate industries -- clean, modern, safe, efficient plants -- would be able to get construction permits. Right now, the Clairton Coke Works blocks this simply by existing. In effect they are punishing the innocent to let a repeat offender slide! No wonder the region cannot attract new industries.

Getting rid of the Coke Works will NOT assure the recovery of the MonValley -- but at least with it gone it WILL be POSSIBLE. New industries based on state-of-the-art technology and equipment will also bring us a better class of people than that old dump.....that will make Clairton and the MonValley abetter place to live -- it can become part of America again!

Again, everything you've posted is 100% speculation - back up your posts with valid news reports or facts.

9th and Ohio wrote:

Again, everything you've posted is 100% speculation - back up your posts with valid news reports or facts.

That's right....I made it all up. There are NO foreign competitors. US Steel drove them out of business. They have the most advanced technology in the world. The USW insisted on it. All of the fines they were assessed by OSHA and the EPA are just communist propaganda. The union still remains doubly vigilant over "job killers and conspiracies"

Clairton needs no alternate industries; its sha;; remain eternally prosperous as the Coke Capital of the World.....USS/USW have give their absolute guarantee.....by the way....those last couple explosions never happened and, if they did, they were "green terrorists" I'm sure.

I belive in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the virginity of Teddy Kennedy. Good luck with the USW legal department.

Lifetime asthma prevalence rate for school children in Allegheny County is 9.29%.
Asthma prevalence considerably higher in target communities (Clairton, Liberty Boro) compared to the rest of the region.
1:4 children in Braddock suffer from asthma.
1:5 in Clairton.
Asthma rates in target communities 18% compared to 9% in all of Allegheny County and 12% overall in the state of Pennsylvania.

This information needs to get out. Only with an informed public can those that are responsible for the poor air quality be forced to make the necessary changes.

Don't you have the G 20 matter to tend to?

CMill wrote:

Don't you have the G 20 matter to tend to?

Some of the people that will be protesting at the G 20 although comitted to their particular causes seem to prefer civil disobedience to get their point accross. I think education works much better, don't you agree?

CMill wrote:

Don't you have the G 20 matter to tend to?

Just trying to keep AMERICAN industries competitive.....maybe YOU can tell me how this can be done with obsolete technologies, outdated equipment, breakdown maintenance and no capital investments? While you are at it, maybe you can also explain what virtue, if any, lies in this course of action? Certainly it would not SEEM calculated to give any firm a competitive edge.
The assumption becomes there is some other motive.

TRADITIONAL American thinking -- such as followed by Japanese, German and Korean steelmakers -- suggests that firm that fall behind in their technology, have poor management and cease to be competitive deserve to go out of business....why should this old dump -- leaving completely out of consideration its putrid ecological record and general disrespect for Federal laws -- be any exception? To allow the USW to continue its fantasies about "job killers" and "conspiracies to break the union" -- or just to protect them from the consequences of this asinine notion?

The fact is that the USW is the principal "job killer" in the MonValley. As for the so-called conspiracies against them, real or imaginary, it is not even clear that their success would be a bad thing. Both the Coke Works and the USW have outlived their usefulness. It's time for them to both let go and give the rest of MonValley a chance

C town gal wrote:

Lifetime asthma prevalence rate for school children in Allegheny County is 9.29%.
Asthma prevalence considerably higher in target communities (Clairton, Liberty Boro) compared to the rest of the region.
1:4 children in Braddock suffer from asthma.
1:5 in Clairton.
Asthma rates in target communities 18% compared to 9% in all of Allegheny County and 12% overall in the state of Pennsylvania.
This information needs to get out. Only with an informed public can those that are responsible for the poor air quality be forced to make the necessary changes.

Read the posts of "9th and Ohio" ...... this is all propaganda. It conflicts with the Revealed Word of the US Steel Public Relations Department and the Gospel according to the USW. This is just the latest in that endless series of "job killers" that are all part of a "Great Conspiracy" to "break the union"

And hey.....where would all those foreign competitors be without them?

C town gal wrote:

Lifetime asthma prevalence rate for school children in Allegheny County is 9.29%.
Asthma prevalence considerably higher in target communities (Clairton, Liberty Boro) compared to the rest of the region.
1:4 children in Braddock suffer from asthma.
1:5 in Clairton.
Asthma rates in target communities 18% compared to 9% in all of Allegheny County and 12% overall in the state of Pennsylvania.
This information needs to get out. Only with an informed public can those that are responsible for the poor air quality be forced to make the necessary changes.

Except....they WON'T make any changes.

They will express regrets and offer promises. They may evn go through the motions of making engineering studies and drawing up plans/proposals. Then will come the next round of corporate poor mouthing, excuses, postponements and delays. Upgrades by definition, are capital expenditures, so these will eventually be shelved in yet another economy move.

What happens then? Perhaps some citizens groups and/or some government agency will take them to court -- again!.....Probably they will be fined -- again!......And then they will just pay the fine and go on as before!

They have been doing this for over thirty years now. They ALREADY know the fines are coming and they don't even care. They ALREADY know the approximate amount and see it as "just another operating expense". They've already BUDGETED for it; factored it in as part of their cost of doing business.

Both recent and long-term events also show that US Steel has a similar attitude on safety within their own plant. So their attitude toward the safety of the environment and the general public is hardly surprising.

While as always, I remain your friend and bestow my blessings upon your tireless efforts, I do not believe that US Steel or the USW will respond to government action or public pressure. Fines have been proven many times to be totally ineffective.
Shutdown and demolition are the ONLY OPTION LEFT!

Let that be the.....FINAL SOLUTION!

Rasputin wrote:

<quoted text>
Except....they WON'T make any changes.
They will express regrets and offer promises. They may evn go through the motions of making engineering studies and drawing up plans/proposals. Then will come the next round of corporate poor mouthing, excuses, postponements and delays. Upgrades by definition, are capital expenditures, so these will eventually be shelved in yet another economy move.
What happens then? Perhaps some citizens groups and/or some government agency will take them to court -- again!.....Probably they will be fined -- again!......And then they will just pay the fine and go on as before!
They have been doing this for over thirty years now. They ALREADY know the fines are coming and they don't even care. They ALREADY know the approximate amount and see it as "just another operating expense". They've already BUDGETED for it; factored it in as part of their cost of doing business.
Both recent and long-term events also show that US Steel has a similar attitude on safety within their own plant. So their attitude toward the safety of the environment and the general public is hardly surprising.
While as always, I remain your friend and bestow my blessings upon your tireless efforts, I do not believe that US Steel or the USW will respond to government action or public pressure. Fines have been proven many times to be totally ineffective.
Shutdown and demolition are the ONLY OPTION LEFT!
Let that be the.....FINAL SOLUTION!

Again, all I hear is the same broken record. What do you propose be done? How much capital have you raised to build your alternative industries? Get real.

9th and Ohio wrote:

<quoted text>
Again, all I hear is the same broken record. What do you propose be done? How much capital have you raised to build your alternative industries? Get real.

OK.....the industries and the capital are out there. However, due to the high pollution from that old dump, no modern plant, however safe, clean, effiecient, profitable or well-designed can get an operating license or even a construction permit. In effect, progress has been locked out of the MonValley and the MonValley locked into obsolescence by a firm that cannot compete and will not even try to do so.

Gettting rid of that old dump will NOT assure the recovery of the MonValley -- but it will give us options again; at least it would make the recovery POSSIBLE.....Best case, with that old dump around our collective neck like a millstone, we can only hope for more of the same....Worst case, it drags the whole valley down with it.

The point is......WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO LOSE? Keep the old dump running and the MonValley keeps going down the drain; get rid of it and at least their is the POTENTIAL to rebuild. Numerous cities have had to re-invent themselves several times and have done so successfully. Surely we can draw from their experience. A wide array of alternate industries are available....but why should they build here if we keep discouraging them? Why should they spend money for the priviledge of trying to buck US Steel, when they can be welcomed with open arms anywhere else?

Getting rid of the old dump will NOT solve the problem; but allowing it to continue will merely seal the doom of the MonValley. Removing it from the board at least makes a recovery POSSIBLE.

What have we got ot lose? Let's just do it!