Is AA a cult?

I recently read an article about cults and what they have in common. Compare these traits to AA:

1. The guru is always right (AA--Our way is the only right way)
2. There is no exit from a cult (AA--Once you're in you have to stay in or die in the gutter from alcohol)
3. There is a "Cult Speak" (AA--all the slogans. i.e."Keep Coming Back, It Works", etc)
4. There is a group think mentality; no dissention is allowed (AA--you're not allowed to disagree with the 12 Steps or discuss anything not part of AA)
5. Insistance that the cult is always right (AA--Alcoholics Anon and the 12 Steps are the only way. No other program works without the 12 Steps)
6. Indoctrination of Members (AA---you have to go along with the group)
7. Personal Testimonies of earlier converts (AA--AA has meetings where "old timers" speak about their experiences and how AA saved them)
8. No humor (AA--have you ever been to a meeting where everybody wasn't miserable)
9. New Comers can't think right (AA--they insist that newcomers do at least 90 meeting in 90 days in order to indoctrinate them.)
10. Confession Sessions (AA--"Hi, my name is ****, and I'm an alcoholic)

After reading this, do you agree that AA is a cult?

Francis wrote:

I recently read an article about cults and what they have in common. Compare these traits to AA:

1. The guru is always right (AA--Our way is the only right way)
2. There is no exit from a cult (AA--Once you're in you have to stay in or die in the gutter from alcohol)
3. There is a "Cult Speak" (AA--all the slogans. i.e."Keep Coming Back, It Works", etc)
4. There is a group think mentality; no dissention is allowed (AA--you're not allowed to disagree with the 12 Steps or discuss anything not part of AA)
5. Insistance that the cult is always right (AA--Alcoholics Anon and the 12 Steps are the only way. No other program works without the 12 Steps)
6. Indoctrination of Members (AA---you have to go along with the group)
7. Personal Testimonies of earlier converts (AA--AA has meetings where "old timers" speak about their experiences and how AA saved them)
8. No humor (AA--have you ever been to a meeting where everybody wasn't miserable)
9. New Comers can't think right (AA--they insist that newcomers do at least 90 meeting in 90 days in order to indoctrinate them.)
10. Confession Sessions (AA--"Hi, my name is ****, and I'm an alcoholic)

After reading this, do you agree that AA is a cult?

http://www.orange-papers.org/

Same discussion going on in Henderson topix- very interesting. I went to NA and agree it is like a cult. But if it works for someone, I guess it's better to be in a cult than a hard-core addict that's lost everything. At least AA lets you involve your family in activities and has open meetings whereas a cult doesn't. I rely on God but not AA or NA or church.

Francis wrote:

I recently read an article about cults and what they have in common. Compare these traits to AA:

1. The guru is always right (AA--Our way is the only right way)
2. There is no exit from a cult (AA--Once you're in you have to stay in or die in the gutter from alcohol)
3. There is a "Cult Speak" (AA--all the slogans. i.e."Keep Coming Back, It Works", etc)
4. There is a group think mentality; no dissention is allowed (AA--you're not allowed to disagree with the 12 Steps or discuss anything not part of AA)
5. Insistance that the cult is always right (AA--Alcoholics Anon and the 12 Steps are the only way. No other program works without the 12 Steps)
6. Indoctrination of Members (AA---you have to go along with the group)
7. Personal Testimonies of earlier converts (AA--AA has meetings where "old timers" speak about their experiences and how AA saved them)
8. No humor (AA--have you ever been to a meeting where everybody wasn't miserable)
9. New Comers can't think right (AA--they insist that newcomers do at least 90 meeting in 90 days in order to indoctrinate them.)
10. Confession Sessions (AA--"Hi, my name is ****, and I'm an alcoholic)

After reading this, do you agree that AA is a cult?

I don't think it is anything like a cult.
1) the big book specifically states that they are just sharing what worked for them.
2) I've never heard that once you're in you have to stay in. I do know that they encourage you to keep coming back for support, especially when you are tempted to relapse. That makes sense to me.
3)almost every group, club, fraternity, etc. has slogans and group sayings. The "keep coming back, it works" is simply something you can use to remind yourself that there is hope, even when it seems hopeless, that it has worked for others, so it will work for you if you stick with it.
4)the 12 steps are the core of the AA recovery program, if you disagree with them, why would you want to go to AA meetings? Why not find a different program with a plan that you do agree with? The not discussing things that aren't AA related is simply to keep meetings on topic. Would you go to a school board meeting and discuss things that weren't school related? Makes sense. Otherwise the meetings wouldn't really be meetings, they'd be social gatherings and not much would be accomplished.
5)again, I've never heard anyone say that there is no other program that works, or that AA is the only way to sobriety.

6)I don't quite understand what you mean by "you have to go along with the group". If you go to an AA meeting, it's because you feel that you need what AA has to offer. Others who have been there longer obviously have some experience that you don't, so why would you not want to learn from them?
7)personal testimonies offer hope to those who are struggling. Sharing past experiences and struggles helps others to realize that they are not alone in this, and that recovery is possible. Very helpful, IMO.
8)I have been to some amazing AA meetings. I don't think I've ever left a meeting and not felt better than when I came. Granted, sometimes they can get very emotional, but there is always the message of hope, and that is very uplifting.
9) most newcomers can't think right. They're still detoxing for one thing, and for another, they still have an alcoholic mindset. I've never heard the 90 meetings in 90 days, except in a treatment program that includes AA but also includes other requirements, like court ordered recovery programs, etc.
10)the "confession sessions" ummmm. I've never heard of anyone being required to confess anything. There is always opportunity for one to share with the group if they are struggling with something and want to get some support, but I've never seen anyone required to share. And you don't have to say "my name is ... And I'm an alcoholic." they do ask you to introduce yourself, saying your name and why you are there, and those who are alcoholics usually do say so, simply to make it easier for newcomers to accept that they have a problem, admit it out loud, and feel like they aren't alone in it. Definitely not required. I always say "my name is ... And I'm here for support" since I am not an alcoholic. Others simply say "my name is ...and I'm a visitor" or "I'm interested in the program" or whatever. Not a confession really.
Just my thoughts on it. Of course I haven't been to many AA meetings around here, most of the ones I attended with my husband were in Louisville. They may be different here I guess. But the AA program is overall a great program, IMO.

@BeenThere2-- I enjoyed reading your points. I was introduced to AA/NA through a treatment program I voluntarily attended for 28 days. It was based on the 12 step program so that might be where our differing viewpoints stem from. Aftercare required 90 meetings in 90 days. I believe we should have a choice that includes AA and for a lot of newly sober people AA really works. Whatever works to help one stay clean and sober is good in my eyes.

been there2 wrote:

<quoted text>I don't think it is anything like a cult.
1) the big book specifically states that they are just sharing what worked for them.
2) I've never heard that once you're in you have to stay in. I do know that they encourage you to keep coming back for support, especially when you are tempted to relapse. That makes sense to me.
3)almost every group, club, fraternity, etc. has slogans and group sayings. The "keep coming back, it works" is simply something you can use to remind yourself that there is hope, even when it seems hopeless, that it has worked for others, so it will work for you if you stick with it.
4)the 12 steps are the core of the AA recovery program, if you disagree with them, why would you want to go to AA meetings? Why not find a different program with a plan that you do agree with? The not discussing things that aren't AA related is simply to keep meetings on topic. Would you go to a school board meeting and discuss things that weren't school related? Makes sense. Otherwise the meetings wouldn't really be meetings, they'd be social gatherings and not much would be accomplished.
5)again, I've never heard anyone say that there is no other program that works, or that AA is the only way to sobriety.

AA at its core, insists that you must keep coming back or you will relapse and die.

Francis wrote:

<quoted text>AA at its core, insists that you must keep coming back or you will relapse and die.

Keep coming back it works if you work it, YOU'LL DIE IF YOU DON'T!! Whatthefuck?

I was deep in NA/AA for a very long time, had sponcers under me hosted meetings the whole deal.. I know for a fact it's more like a cult than anything else. The facts show that it has a 95% failure percentage. I've seen more people high and drunk hours after a meeting than I care to see again.. This is the main reason I left. It is a very hard and depressing way to white knuckle sobriety..

[QUOTE who="hi im the truth, hi truth"]I was deep in NA/AA for a very long time, had sponcers under me hosted meetings the whole deal.. I know for a fact it's more like a cult than anything else. The facts show that it has a 95% failure percentage. I've seen more people high and drunk hours after a meeting than I care to see again.. This is the main reason I left. It is a very hard and depressing way to white knuckle sobriety..[/QUOTE]
Wow, I really hate that so many people had such a hard time with it! But at the same time, it does work for a lot of people. My husband is an alcoholic and addict. He had been using and drinking since he was 12. To be quite honest, AA probably saved his life. He's been clean and sober for 10 years now. AA offered something that I couldn't, the support of people who had been where he was. Even though they told him the same things I had been telling him for years, he listened to them because they had experience, and I didn't. He doesn't go to meetings anymore, hasn't since shortly after we moved here, but he still applies what he learned at AA to his life. Attending meetings with him was really helpful to me as well. Helped me recognize things in my life that were causing a lot of problems, and gave me a way to fix them.
AA's program is by no means easy. I can see where it wouldn't work for some. But I really hate to see people discouraged from at least trying it like this, because for my husband, it was exactly what he needed. It may be what someone else needs too. And if it doesn't work for them, at least it's a step in the right direction.
If I may ask, what alternatives to AA would you suggest for someone who might find that AA doesn't work for them?

been there2 wrote:

<quoted text>I don't think it is anything like a cult.
1) the big book specifically states that they are just sharing what worked for them.
2) I've never heard that once you're in you have to stay in. I do know that they encourage you to keep coming back for support, especially when you are tempted to relapse. That makes sense to me.
3)almost every group, club, fraternity, etc. has slogans and group sayings. The "keep coming back, it works" is simply something you can use to remind yourself that there is hope, even when it seems hopeless, that it has worked for others, so it will work for you if you stick with it.
4)the 12 steps are the core of the AA recovery program, if you disagree with them, why would you want to go to AA meetings? Why not find a different program with a plan that you do agree with? The not discussing things that aren't AA related is simply to keep meetings on topic. Would you go to a school board meeting and discuss things that weren't school related? Makes sense. Otherwise the meetings wouldn't really be meetings, they'd be social gatherings and not much would be accomplished.
5)again, I've never heard anyone say that there is no other program that works, or that AA is the only way to sobriety.

good work brother. I do believe in the program. I have attended for around 20 years. And no I have never had a drinking problem. But I have gone with people I know that it has helped very much and if it helps and makes a positive good for them. And guess what most I know don't attend any more and still don't drink. So blows the hole cult theory.

been there2 wrote:

6)I don't quite understand what you mean by "you have to go along with the group". If you go to an AA meeting, it's because you feel that you need what AA has to offer. Others who have been there longer obviously have some experience that you don't, so why would you not want to learn from them?
7)personal testimonies offer hope to those who are struggling. Sharing past experiences and struggles helps others to realize that they are not alone in this, and that recovery is possible. Very helpful, IMO.
8)I have been to some amazing AA meetings. I don't think I've ever left a meeting and not felt better than when I came. Granted, sometimes they can get very emotional, but there is always the message of hope, and that is very uplifting.
9) most newcomers can't think right. They're still detoxing for one thing, and for another, they still have an alcoholic mindset. I've never heard the 90 meetings in 90 days, except in a treatment program that includes AA but also includes other requirements, like court ordered recovery programs, etc.
10)the "confession sessions" ummmm. I've never heard of anyone being required to confess anything. There is always opportunity for one to share with the group if they are struggling with something and want to get some support, but I've never seen anyone required to share. And you don't have to say "my name is ... And I'm an alcoholic." they do ask you to introduce yourself, saying your name and why you are there, and those who are alcoholics usually do say so, simply to make it easier for newcomers to accept that they have a problem, admit it out loud, and feel like they aren't alone in it. Definitely not required. I always say "my name is ... And I'm here for support" since I am not an alcoholic. Others simply say "my name is ...and I'm a visitor" or "I'm interested in the program" or whatever. Not a confession really.
Just my thoughts on it. Of course I haven't been to many AA meetings around here, most of the ones I attended with my husband were in Louisville. They may be different here I guess. But the AA program is overall a great program, IMO.

My problem is not with the people who want to be there (that's your business) my problem is with people being sentenced to attend AA meeting (or 12 Step Programs) by the courts.

Mc smokey wrote:

<quoted text>good work brother. I do believe in the program. I have attended for around 20 years. And no I have never had a drinking problem. But I have gone with people I know that it has helped very much and if it helps and makes a positive good for them. And guess what most I know don't attend any more and still don't drink. So blows the hole cult theory.

So you just hang out at AA meetings? That's where we can find McSmokey! Ha. That explains a lot. All of you seen to know people that went to AA, but don't go anymore? Why don't they go anymore? In the eyes of AA, they are headed straight for a relapse or on a "dry drunk", they are not sober in their eyes.

How about all of the predators that attend the meetings? AA is known for "sober" members preying on young women, freshly sober and new to the "program".

Or about all of the gossip? They cannot respect their own traditions, especially the one about "anonymity". It's a haven for gossip and rumors, much like high school.

They are not suppose to be affiliated with any outside organizations, yet court systems, social workers and probation and parole, are able to sentence people to a certain amount of "meetings". Are you aware that certain states have outlawed such practices? Based on their findings of AA to be a religion.

Thoughts to ponder people.
http://www.orange-papers.org/

NotAFriendOfBills wrote:

<quoted text>My problem is not with the people who want to be there (that's your business) my problem is with people being sentenced to attend AA meeting (or 12 Step Programs) by the courts.

I kind of agree on that point. It will not work if the person isn't ready for a change. My husband was sentenced by the court to the lighthouse program a long time ago. That did NOT work for him and he ended up going to Louisville for treatment. That's where he finally decided that he was ready. But if someone doesn't really want to change, there is no point in making them go to meetings, AA or any other type. Detox, etc. yeah, but meetings are pointless if they aren't ready to change.

Francis wrote:

<quoted text>So you just hang out at AA meetings? That's where we can find McSmokey! Ha. That explains a lot. All of you seen to know people that went to AA, but don't go anymore? Why don't they go anymore? In the eyes of AA, they are headed straight for a relapse or on a "dry drunk", they are not sober in their eyes.

How about all of the predators that attend the meetings? AA is known for "sober" members preying on young women, freshly sober and new to the "program".

Or about all of the gossip? They cannot respect their own traditions, especially the one about "anonymity". It's a haven for gossip and rumors, much like high school.

They are not suppose to be affiliated with any outside organizations, yet court systems, social workers and probation and parole, are able to sentence people to a certain amount of "meetings". Are you aware that certain states have outlawed such practices? Based on their findings of AA to be a religion.

Thoughts to ponder people.
http://www.orange-papers.org/

I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but my husband stopped going to meetings because he didn't care for the meetings they have in Owensboro. He really enjoyed the ones in Louisville, as did I.
Romantic involvement with fellow AA members, new or not, is strongly discouraged by AA.
I don't know about gossips, when we were going, confidentiality was very important. As far as gossip within the group, I don't think I've ever been in a group of more than two people where none of them gossiped. A lot of people are just like that. Doesn't really have anything to do with AA. You see it with any type of group.
I do not believe that people should be sentenced to attend AA meetings. It's kind of pointless if they don't want to be there, and the fact that many of them don't could be the source of a lot of the problems you see with AA meetings around here. I do think that it should be an option, but I think that other treatment options and group meetings should be offered as well.

Before you begin trashing the only known treatment program, perhaps you should tally the number of treatment facilities in our town and surrounding counties. Addiction is an epidemic. There aren't enough beds to hold the number people trying to find help. Perhaps the fact that addiction is somea hard cycle to break is the factor preventing people from overcoming their problems whether it's drugs or alcohol.

I prefer being a drunk! Alcoholics go to meetings, drunks go to parties!

drama wrote:

Before you begin trashing the only known treatment program, perhaps you should tally the number of treatment facilities in our town and surrounding counties. Addiction is an epidemic. There aren't enough beds to hold the number people trying to find help. Perhaps the fact that addiction is somea hard cycle to break is the factor preventing people from overcoming their problems whether it's drugs or alcohol.

Perhaps you should check your own information and realize that AA and treatment facilities are two separate things.

Alcoholism isn't a disease, cancel is a disease. You can't stop having cancer but you can stop chugging booze.

"Fake it until you make it!"
"Act as if!"
"Keep it simple, Stupid!"