GM's pain hits retirees

FreedomVet wrote:

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Where would you/we be without a public education NoFreeRides? Where did you acquire the tools necessary to play in society's money game?

I have never advocated for the elimination of public funding for education. I think it is a societal good that has great economic benefits.

With that said, I think that we need to change the way we deliver that education. In many areas the public school model is broken. I support a choice model.

Now getting beck to the expectation that I do something in return for what I receive. I have done quite a bit with the public education I received, as have many other people. The system can work if the individual makes the effort. If the individual chooses to squander the opportunity, why should they continue to be the taxpayer's problem?

FreedomVet wrote:

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All that & you still didn't answer a single question asked.

You just don't like the answers.

FreedomVet wrote:

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haha, only those choices that are put on a plate in front of you by large corporations (aka the real governments). When will you open your eyes & discard the propaganda you were fed as a child?

I have lived the choice. It works if you work and are open to things as opportunities instead of obstacles.

FreedomVet wrote:

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You should stop judging others - you're horrible at it & it makes you a miserable person.

I'll stop judging them when I'm no longer expected to support them and pay for their poor decisions.

All the talk here is about GM providing health insurance to retirees but no one talks about the irresponsibility of most Americans and how they don't take care of their bodies.

We're the most obese nation in the world, too many smoke then want insurance to pay for all the damage they cause to their bodies, we drink and drive too much which also is a burden on insurance because of injuries.

We need to get personal responsibility back into our lives before we keep crying/whining about what companies and the government "owes" us.

As long as no one seems to be held accountable for their life-style choices, I owe nothing to anyone other than what I can control... myself, and my family. You reap what you sow!

Dave wrote:

All the talk here is about GM providing health insurance to retirees but no one talks about the irresponsibility of most Americans and how they don't take care of their bodies.
We're the most obese nation in the world, too many smoke then want insurance to pay for all the damage they cause to their bodies, we drink and drive too much which also is a burden on insurance because of injuries.
We need to get personal responsibility back into our lives before we keep crying/whining about what companies and the government "owes" us.
As long as no one seems to be held accountable for their life-style choices, I owe nothing to anyone other than what I can control... myself, and my family. You reap what you sow!

EXACTLY!

Most everyone is missing a major point here that goes way beyond the Millers. The very last line of the article has major ramifications for this nation: "I'm going to have to give up some other things. It's going to change my budget."

There is something that is taught in Accounting 101, which is called "disposable or discretionary income." This means purchasing power! The more of this available to a LARGE population of retirees, means that they have the dollars to purchase goods and services. This means travel, restaurants, clothing, food, presents for grandchildren, cars, independence vs. living with children, and many others.

Since the early 1990's that "fuel" which keeps our economy going has been diminished by over 8 million retirees who have lost their health benefits promised them during their entire careers as a perk instead of high salaries. Since the EEOC decision the private sector is stampeding on who can clobber their retirees first.

For just the Millers, it will require "changing their budget." Multiply the Mr. Miller by millions of retirees and you convert a major segment of our population from purchasers into takers.

Jack wrote:

Most everyone is missing a major point here that goes way beyond the Millers. The very last line of the article has major ramifications for this nation: "I'm going to have to give up some other things. It's going to change my budget."
There is something that is taught in Accounting 101, which is called "disposable or discretionary income." This means purchasing power! The more of this available to a LARGE population of retirees, means that they have the dollars to purchase goods and services. This means travel, restaurants, clothing, food, presents for grandchildren, cars, independence vs. living with children, and many others.
Since the early 1990's that "fuel" which keeps our economy going has been diminished by over 8 million retirees who have lost their health benefits promised them during their entire careers as a perk instead of high salaries. Since the EEOC decision the private sector is stampeding on who can clobber their retirees first.
For just the Millers, it will require "changing their budget." Multiply the Mr. Miller by millions of retirees and you convert a major segment of our population from purchasers into takers.

What's wrong with that? It seesm to be what the majority votes for in many elections. Isn't that the rationailzation for making higher income people pay taxes far in excess of the cost of services they use?

Please clarify. Is the last entry (148) merely that person's attempt at satire or, is he seriously advocating that an entire senior generation be relegated to being totally dependent upon our government, merely to justify wealthy people paying inordinate shares of the income tax?

Jack wrote:

Please clarify. Is the last entry (148) merely that person's attempt at satire or, is he seriously advocating that an entire senior generation be relegated to being totally dependent upon our government, merely to justify wealthy people paying inordinate shares of the income tax?

No satire involved. What I said is what I meant.

People that expect me to support them are going to hear my criticism of their decisions that led them to be dependent on me and others.

George from Pasadena wrote:

To you misguided people out there who are taking this opportunity to bash Unions, shame on you. I am proud to be UNION. You had your choice same as me. I chose the Union path and have no regrets. LIVE BETTER WORK UNION.

Most people have no choice, if the employer thinks they would vote for a union, they will be fired for some other phony "reason" before the election. Most workers who actually do work fall into two categories. Union workers and workers that wish they were union.

NoFreeRides evidently is once again missing the point. Health care benefits in retirement and pensions were part of the original negotiation when people were first employed back in the 50's and 60's. There was no "free ride." It was an inducement for taking lower wages. It was not written in a contract in most cases, but was an "understanding." That "understanding" was reinforced throughout a person's career right up until another inducement for early retirement. It is because these people want "no free ride" that they claim companies like G.M. welshed on their promise. You WILL be giving them a "free ride" if you have to support them through your taxes when they can no longer afford food, shelter or medical care which Medicare does not cover. You don't want that and I don't either!

Jack wrote:

NoFreeRides evidently is once again missing the point. Health care benefits in retirement and pensions were part of the original negotiation when people were first employed back in the 50's and 60's. There was no "free ride." It was an inducement for taking lower wages. It was not written in a contract in most cases, but was an "understanding." That "understanding" was reinforced throughout a person's career right up until another inducement for early retirement. It is because these people want "no free ride" that they claim companies like G.M. welshed on their promise. You WILL be giving them a "free ride" if you have to support them through your taxes when they can no longer afford food, shelter or medical care which Medicare does not cover. You don't want that and I don't either!

very well said sir - and exactly right

George from Pasadena wrote:

To you misguided people out there who are taking this opportunity to bash Unions, shame on you. I am proud to be UNION. You had your choice same as me. I chose the Union path and have no regrets. LIVE BETTER WORK UNION.

Yea it worked out great in the long run
for both sides didnt it?

Jack wrote:

NoFreeRides evidently is once again missing the point. Health care benefits in retirement and pensions were part of the original negotiation when people were first employed back in the 50's and 60's. There was no "free ride." It was an inducement for taking lower wages. It was not written in a contract in most cases, but was an "understanding." That "understanding" was reinforced throughout a person's career right up until another inducement for early retirement. It is because these people want "no free ride" that they claim companies like G.M. welshed on their promise. You WILL be giving them a "free ride" if you have to support them through your taxes when they can no longer afford food, shelter or medical care which Medicare does not cover. You don't want that and I don't either!

Fair enough! But this situation emphasizes exactly why people should not rely on others to manage their retirement funds.

The retirees should sue GM and see how they fare.

hypocrit wrote:

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Yea it worked out great in the long run
for both sides didnt it?

A union bumper sticker on the outside is a sign of a closed mind inside.

I was raised with " As GM goes, so goes the country" Well a big goodnight to all.

Doug wrote:

I was raised with " As GM goes, so goes the country" Well a big goodnight to all.

Well there is a lot of truth to that. GM may be brought down by making financial committments to employees that would eventually bankrupt the company.

The U.S. economy is well on its way to ruin for the same reason.

NoFreeRides wrote:

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Well there is a lot of truth to that. GM may be brought down by making financial committments to employees that would eventually bankrupt the company.
The U.S. economy is well on its way to ruin for the same reason.

Several factors, including NAFTA and ending tariffs on imported cars, cutting taxes during a war, and a president that is an oilman that refused to enforce immigration laws. The entire US economy is going down for those same reasons.

NoFreeRides wrote:

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Well there is a lot of truth to that. GM may be brought down by making financial committments to employees that would eventually bankrupt the company.
The U.S. economy is well on its way to ruin for the same reason.

Ridiculous. GM ran GM into the ground...they've been building behemoths for years and wonder why they don't sell when gas is tight? And don't act like this just happened...writing has been on the wall for years. Their labor force got the prevailing rate & wage & PROMISES that you so vehemently defend in supply and demand. And they've made concessions when times where tough. You seem to think the tail wags the dog.

What kind of jobs will be left when you have your way? All manufacturing jobs will be in china or the next lowest bidder as we Wal-Mart our country away. Tech jobs will be the domain of south asia/india. Textiles - gone. Farming-Going. Defense-Same thing. Are we all going to have service jobs (McDonalds and the Gap) while a class of powerful CEO, owners and upper management live the high life? Is that what you are hoping for?

People have to work to get paid to buy the things that pay for everyone else's salary and YOUR ability to sit around and post on this site all day. No free ride??!! Whatever you do, the lives and success of your neighbors and countrymen are tied into YOUR success or failure. Keep taking their jobs, their ability to support families, their health care, their worth and their hopes and you'll be giving them all a nice BIG PAID RIDE on welfare and every other means of government help.