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oh dear
San Diego, CA
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I really dislike the way the show made it seem like children are forever innocent and that it's perfectly fine for the child to keep encouraging the person, know their age, invite them over and at the end of it all it's still solely the person's fault. I mean granted, yes, they are an adult but if you're idiotic, stupid, or too blind to realize your child is asking for it online then your problem has started long before anyone else got involved. Also, does no one realize most chat rooms require an age requirement. I mean, they're probably not gonna care, but when that kid finds themselves in a bad situation, I hope the parents realize their oh so innocent little angel didn't end up in that chat room on accident. Oh, and I don't agree with what the pervs were doing on the show but come on, no minors were involved. Sounds like thought police to me.
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anonymous
Seattle, WA
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In some cases it IS entrapment. If the suspect at all in the chat says that they are unsure about following through and the person posing as the minor is still soliciting after what the suspect saying he wasn't sure, it is entrapment. Also, there has to be law enforcement involved in the sting for it to be entrapment. The show thought they were free and clear of entrapment by not having law enforcement involved during the solicitation, but according to law, if law enforcement is involved in ANY portion of the sting, it is considered entrapment. Most of the pedophiles that get caught will plea no contest or plea a lesser sentence because they know what they are doing is wrong and it is hard to find someone who will actually spend the time to defend them properly.
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“Just my opinion”
Since: Jul 08
Location hidden
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Please wait...
anonymous wrote: I'm not sure it amounts to entrapment but I've got grave concerns about whether these perverts--and, yes, they are perverts--have even committed a crime. They talk/chat on the internet with undercover police officers--NOT minors. They proposition these undercover police officers--NOT minors. They talk filth to these undercover police officers--NOT minors.
And, when they go to the house to have sex with a minor--THERE IS NO MINOR PRESENT. It is police, Dateline and someone over the age of consent who LOOKS like a minor.
Dateline says the perverts are charged with the crime of "intent to have sex with a minor" or something similar. But, the pervert never has even spoken to a minor. Never met a minor.
And, more importantly, we do not punish people for having horrible thoughts in the United States. Which means, I can think all I want that I want to kill my neighbor but the thinking ALONE is not a crime. I can think all I want that I'd like to rob the bank down the street but just thinking about it is not enough. I can think that I'd like to take a steak from the local grocery store without paying for it and even go into the store to steal the steak--but until I carry it out of the store, it is not a crime. In other words, I've got to take a "substantial step" towards the completion of my crime to be guilty of the attempt to commit it. What does the pervert on Dateline do? He talks/chats with an ADULT and agrees to meet an ADULT and goes to a house and then meets an ADULT. He thinks about having sex with minors but, until now and until this, the US never has criminally punished those who merely think about committing crimes--no matter how horrendous the crime. Well said. No question these people are guilty of stupidity but stupidity is not a crime. It is frightening to think that we are arresting folks by what assume is in their mind. I also throw in the fact that when they are talking to the cops, their privacy is invaded. Most people think emotionally but I think logically. I do NOT think these guys are good folks and they are probably up to no good. People are not convicted on PROBABLY. Remember we are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. There is reasonable doubt
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“Just my opinion”
Since: Jul 08
Location hidden
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Please wait...
Judged:
1
Anon1337 wrote: No crime committed. It should not stick. I agree with the previous posters and the constitution. I can sympathize with the individuals who want these people strung up and charged to the maximum. But
1) Your feeling are not a tool of cognition. Sorry. We live in a rational society of law, not a whimsical society based on your, or anyone's moral indignation.
2) More important than the outcome of this particular scenario is the fundamental principle on which the whole dilemma hinges. If you can prosecute and punish these pervs on the basis of their intention w/o an actually criminal ACT taking place (there are no minors anywhere to be found)then transitively you can run with the bastardized principle and apply it widely to other contexts where it becomes much more clear that thought crimes and preemptive prosecution is immorally and illegally taking place.
It takes a sharper than average mind to delve that deeply through the knee-jerk emotional content and see the essential underlying principles at work, and most of you couldn't think your way out of a wet paper bag.
3) I agree with the sentiment "protect the children". But protect them from more than the pervs. Protect the free-society and constitutional principles on which it was founded. What use is it to zealously protect them from perverts at the expense of wrecking the society in which they must live. I don't want my kids growing up in a stifled society that can prosecute your thoughts, and intentions. There are wider implications...
You guys also support the Patriot Act? it will keep us "safe", but at what costs? Similarities and parallels exist here. Think about it.
1/\/\ 50 ()|33|p 1337,`|0() c|()`|5 5()(|< Texas apparently agrees with you too. Texas had the guts to eventually say this whole process is unconstitutional, after that guy killed himself. You are so right. Most people let their emotions take over. I have even seen some people on blogs say that adults should not even be allowed to ROLE PLAY age . lol--- It is a very volatile issue for sure but let logic prevail . Again I reiterate that these men are very stupid that follow through.
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“Just my opinion”
Since: Jul 08
Location hidden
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Please wait...
usnavy sailor wrote: last time i checked we stated this country to stop wrongful prosecution. I don't agree with what these men are tying to do but the only "proof" they are guilty is chat logs with someone claiming to be a certain age. it is against the law to entrap or otherwise wrongfully prosecute them. I dont defend these weirdos but I do defend the law and every Americans rights. <quoted text> You are a military man and you say that? Remember if their rights are taken away , yours just might be next. I do not like these men either, but I think logically. They cybered and came to meet adults. People lie about age all the time. Hansen contradicted himself. He got on some of these men for lying about their age, but the girls lied too... Hmmm. I see a double standard. Again can you say ROLEPLAY. Whether you like it or not, that brings reasonable doubt into play.
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Mark
Pinellas Park, FL
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STOP DEFENDING YOURSELVES because the brainless can't see beyond their anger. There are many good points in here about this NOT being a crime. FOCUS ON THAT not so much the perverts in question. We are the United States and to have these type of stings are bad for ALL of us in the end because now if you allow these types of things to happen one day it will be you because you "thought" you's kill your husband/wife for forgetting to get the pizza on the way home. YES doesn't that sound stupid? Well imagine that! I say it is entrapment and NO CRIME has been committed & these people are being exploited. With what little freedoms I have left I would behead these guys for what they did however my reality is that this is NOT a crime. THEY NEVER SPOKE, SENT IMAGES OR MET A MINOR but yet was charged, get past your anger and see the reality!
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“Just my opinion”
Since: Jul 08
Location hidden
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Please wait...
Mark wrote: STOP DEFENDING YOURSELVES because the brainless can't see beyond their anger. There are many good points in here about this NOT being a crime. FOCUS ON THAT not so much the perverts in question. We are the United States and to have these type of stings are bad for ALL of us in the end because now if you allow these types of things to happen one day it will be you because you "thought" you's kill your husband/wife for forgetting to get the pizza on the way home. YES doesn't that sound stupid? Well imagine that! I say it is entrapment and NO CRIME has been committed & these people are being exploited. With what little freedoms I have left I would behead these guys for what they did however my reality is that this is NOT a crime. THEY NEVER SPOKE, SENT IMAGES OR MET A MINOR but yet was charged, get past your anger and see the reality! Well said Mark. As I have said that Hansen is so sanctomonious about these men when they have lied about their age and has the audacity to say stuff like - YOU KNEW THE GIRL WAS ONLY 13 or whatever. Evidently the men did not know because these girls were in fact women over 18 and they physically came to meet women over 18. Like it or not, I see nothing more than role playing. As I stated the men were stupid , and stupidity is not a crime. Convicting people of what we THINK is in their mind has crossed the line. George Orwell wrote a famous book about this. I am glad to see other intelligent people out there and again glad Texas did the right thing and stopped this unconstitutional practice, including invasion of privacy when the police are interrogating.
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Hey Tampabay
Pinellas Park, FL
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I am also in Tampabay, and ditto to seeing some people who can see beyond their noses. I know of my friends that post ads on Criagslist and they people they talk to ALWAYS lie their age. it will be a matter of time/crime that alone will be a crime if we keep heading in this direction & having people NOT look at the big picture. Look what happened with the Patriot Act. I have nothing to hide but I am so sick of seeing police in this area, all over pulling people over, being sneaky and the rate of incarceration & probation is staggering here in Pinellas. I don't want to live in fear & I do fear the police here. I got in big trouble and was threatened jail for loud music during the day! I wasn't aware there was a law that one can't have any loud noise before 11pm back in the day it was up till 11pm with respect of people of course..Did you know this? It's a long story but that was a real wake up call for me. It was a neighbor getting revenge on me for yelling at his barking dogs that barked 24/7
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Jon
Michigan City, IN
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yes it is entrapment its the same as a police officer picking up a hooker without revealing hes a cop and then arresting her.
its not defending a pervert its obeying the law.
yes they themselves break the law but you dont break the law to catch a criminal.
there is no justice.
they are lied to humiliated and their lives basicly ruined.
yes its sick what they do. but imagine when you were a kid you broke the law im sure as a teenage adolescent. now imagine if there were an adult near by and yes they tell you to go for it then arrest you for doing so.
its illegal to entrap.
i do care that they do shit like they do. and it is very scary for the children. however im a strong believer in law and justice.
yes alot of you have children and your scared sick for them when it comes to people like this. but its just as much your fault for not being aware of your child and what they do. let the police find these criminals the legal way. the way chris does it is just a way of cutting hairs. using the media and journalism to tip toe around the law. if one of these men were smart enough they could very well sue the show and those involved with the set up.
yes its against the law to solicit sex to underaged children on the internet. but its illegal to lie and catch them. poching is illegal and this is basicly what it is. i dont like to defend these sick people but the law the law no matter what side your on.
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Loren
Teltow, Germany
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I think it is entrapment. I know people use the analogy of a police man selling you drugs to argue it is not entrapment, but this analogy is invalid. The correct analogy would be a police man offering you free drugs, and then you getting arrested for accepting.
This is obvious also from the show. The guys are total losers, and would not in any reasonable, realistic scenario, be able to attract an underage girl over the internet for relations they way they speak and look. Seriously, look at the "pick-up lines" the guys use in their chats (speaking graphically about sex) and how old and ugly most of these dudes are (and yet the girl always invites them in). So the analogy of a police man offering you free drugs is not even exact, it is more like a police man offering you free "never before seen, without precedent, never in the history of manking" drugs.
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