Judge hears testimony on O.D. death

A judge began hearing testimony Thursday to help him decide whether an Ontario man should stand trial on involuntary manslaughter charges for allegedly failing to summon medical help for his girlfriend as she ... Full Story
Melinda

Pylesville, MD

#126 Oct 31, 2008
WOW what world are you from? She was dieing and he would not help her nor allow anyone else to help her. He could have left and let her friends call for help. It is her fault for taking the drugs but if he would have called or allowed someone else to call in a timely manner she may still be here. She may have lived through this. Miranda made a mistake but he killed her! If you honestly want to blame her like she was home alone and died on the couch high and alone you are an idiot!
Donna

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

#127 Nov 1, 2008
Melinda, What are you talking about? I'm Cameron's mother. I have an explaination why Andrew didn't get my son help in time to save him. It is not a good one and I consider it murder but it is an explaination. I'm asking if anyone ever heard an explaination of why he didn't get help for Miranda, except he wanted her to die, and that is murder. Since the judge just changed his charge to voluntary manslaughter I would like to hear just why she didn't get the help to save her.

Since: Oct 08

Altadena, CA

#128 Nov 2, 2008
Donna, I'm sorry for your loss. An explanation is just that AN explanation. It doesn't mean it is a TRUTHFUL EXPLANATION, right? How do you know that the explanation Andrew, et. al. was truthful? Did it make sense? Did it stand up to scrutiny? Was it verified? How did he act afterward?

From what I am seeing here, Andrew not only prevented people from getting help for Miranda by threats, etc., but he didn't even call until 14 hours later AFTER she was dead. What was he doing all that time? Was he mourning her death? Was he sorry? Did he cry? Did he rip his hair out wishing she hadn't taken those pills? Did he think about her mother and how he took her away from her and her family and people who loved her? He only knew her for a couple of months. They knew her her entire life.

All of these questions would reveal something about what kind of person Andrew Girvan is. Is he a heartless "Black Widow" who offs his friends?

This is creepy to even think about. But here we have two young lives with "explanations" of their deaths. Just that. Nothing more. Only bla bla bla. That's not good enough for moms to rest.

If it were any of my children, I would want answers, not explanations.
anonymous

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#133 Nov 3, 2008
SHE WROTE THAT IN A LETTER TO HIM AND HE MOCKED HER AND THEN HE KILLED HER.

Wow! This is powerful. How do you know about this? How do you know about this letter and how do you know he mocked her?

OH MY GOD!!!

Also, do you know what Macias and Girvan did for the 14 hours after Miranda died?

And ... not to belabor the issue ... but I don't understand why two anonymous phone calls came in AFTER her death.

What do the witnesses have to say in their own defense as to why they waited so long to call 911?

Clearly, this judge doesn't understand the value of human life. She shouldn't be a judge at all.
anonymous

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#134 Nov 3, 2008
Also, Debbe, did they check the body for any injection marks? Did they ever check Cameron's body for injection marks? It's too late now. But, especially morphine, is an injectable drug.

When they did the autopsy, did they find residue from any pills or was it only in her blood stream?
anonymous

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#136 Nov 4, 2008
Soooo, were his statements made after he was read his Miranda rights? If so, then why are they inadmissible?

And how can the circumstances NOT be relevant? I agree with you. There is a huge difference between a girl who was there to conduct a personal matter and be done with it and a girl who was there partying and doing drugs.

And it is very relevant as to THE MANNER IN WHICH the drugs were administerred.
Donna

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

#137 Nov 5, 2008
Thank you Bincita for your sentiments. No, I don't beleive the explaination given to me was truthful. Also, Like Miranda there are too many unanswered questions. The difference is people saw Miranda, heard from Miranda, and witnessed her dying. No one was in the backseat with Cameron but Andrew. The timeline of their actions didn't make sense but it wasn't investigated and I was told nothing can be proved because there are no witnesses. In my heart I don't beleive Andrew intentionally murdered Cameron but not getting him help right away killed him. There were two other people in the front seat and they are as culpable as Andrew is in this case.
I have to say about Andrew getting involuntary manslaughter, Debbe is right, there was nothing involuntary about it. They are siting the same problem here as with Cameron, "it can't be proved". But just talk to the right people and it can be proved. Why is it we know more than the detectives? Nowhere is it mentioned in any report about Cam spilling beer in his baggy of cocaine. Is that just something Andrew thought up later or did he just not tell this to the police? Debbe has talked about the chronology of Miranda's death. She has pieced it together from phone conversations and what people told her of the incidents preceding the event. It is clear Andrew killed Miranda as if he had shot her. If Debbe has this information and she was able to put it together why can't the authorities?
anonymous

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#138 Nov 5, 2008
The authorities were in a hurry to file this as just another druggie death. So when it turned out otherwise and they realized they blew it, going back and gathering evidence against Andrew Girvan would be tantamount to gathering evidence against their own negligence.

Debbe is being given the run-around and needs a lawyer. Even if Andrew Girvan gets the minimum sentence, the powers that be need to be penalized for botching this case.

These officials are paid by our tax dollars to do a job FOR US. We are their employers, not the other way around. Therefore, they are accountable to us. They should be working their tails off to compensate for their initial lack of insight.
debbe

United States

#139 Nov 5, 2008
Donna, I am told that all of the information I've developed over the course of this event, is my theory only and nothing of evidenciary value. Although there are conficting statements that do have complete meaning to this case, again, it was not investigated as a homicide, and therefore they don't have much to go on in actual evidence to prove he murdered her. They say they know he did, but they have to have evidence. Not just the fact that mainly the whole thing is out of character for Miranda, they say it doesn't matter...
I read the article of what Mr. Dowd put down in his arguments, they were phenonimal at best for a case of 2nd degree murder, even without my own personal information and theories.... it is the judge in this case - the defenses argument was plainly weak and pathetic, she said no one made her take those drugs, she did so willingly. NOW, where is this proof? from andrew's mouth? secondly, she says it's like handing a gun to someone, should they be guilty of murder because they took the gun and used it?
huh? and the judge agrees with this?
there is plenty of case law, and at that, this was supposed to set a precident. so why based on what the facts Mr.Dowd presented be enought to take it to a jury to decide. Why is it that a judge becomes the jury ? that's what it boils down to.
I was told from the beginning if the district attorneys office doesn't have enough evidence to prove and get a conviction verdict from 12 jurers they won't make a charge. They (the DA office) was waiting for the prelim witness testimony as they were working on this murder theory. Once the prelim was done, and he was charged with 2nd degree murder as said, that they must have the evidence they needed, so why can a judge say dismiss ??? let the jurors decide on the facts, theory wise, evidence and circumstantial evidence that shows a reason for this and there was a motive, there was opportunity, and there was a decision made to let her die, and make sure of it. the witnesses there were threatened with their lives and lives of their families. I know for myself, I would have taken that chance, I would have taken that bullet for Miranda... or anyone for that matter,, because he would have NO opportunity to explain a gunshot death, vs a drug overdose death. cont'd
debbe

United States

#140 Nov 5, 2008
cont'd... i'm long winded today....
The death is always blamed on the victim. He didn't have to shove those down her, there are many ways people are poisoned all the time, and it's investigated as to the why's and the how's. but not in Miranda's. there was no remarks made whatsoever the coroner looked to find any needle entry --nothing, they based their findings strictly on the blood samples, even though her body was well nourished as they indicated in their report, they want to claim that she was not just a drug abuser, but a CHRONIC drug abuser and that is what caused her death, The coroner herself, told me different, and when I brought it out --the information changed.
Read the article what Mr Dowd's arguments were and Ms. fernandez's arguments. Nothing of the case for Miranda's death, nor Cameron's death make any sense.
and the police even spoke to you Donna, saying "we couldn't get him on your son's death, but we will on this one."
where has this all gone wrong?
He should be held accountable to both their deaths as the drug supplier, he could have handed them a gun. but he chose death by drugs. much harder to prove his guilt except for the main fact he did give them the drugs, whether by force or not, we will never know, because they are not alive to tell what happened. only those who want to save their own sorry a####'s from prison.
both of those men have criminal history
both of those men were on probation for prior crimes still, and none of that seems to matter whatsoever n the least.
they made plea bargain after plea bargain, each time they got caught with some crime, but probabtion after probation, these are career criminals, with lack of regard for any human life. and so showed it.
and thank you anonymous for all of your input. it is very much appreciated, that there wasn't victim attacks as in other article posts on this case. I'm not asking for anything but the truth.
anonymous

Pasadena, CA

#141 Nov 5, 2008
Well, you are very welcome, as when we chat in email I am always on your side since I know in my heart he killed her.

Why would I attack the victim? I didn't even know Miranda but I feel I love her.

I watched her videos on YouTube and cried.

God bless both of you mothers. I don't know what else to say.
anonymous

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#144 Nov 12, 2008
Hi Debbe. Michael Dowd argued well in this case. However, I still ask, "What were the contents of Miranda's digestive tract?"

1. If Andrew Girvan knew exactly what Miranda had taken in the form of pills, did anyone verify that he was telling the truth?

2. If he was telling the truth, how did HE know what she had taken? Did she take those pills in his presence? If so, why would anyone allow such a thing to occur? Would any sane person allow someone they love to take those pills and stand idly by?

3. If the contents of her digestive tract DID NOT contain residual of any pills, then obviously Andrew Girvan is lying! Miranda did not take any pills and the method of administration had to have been involuntary.

These are questions that I would like to see addressed by Michael Dowd.
Annoymous in CA

Walden, NY

#145 Nov 12, 2008
Andrew Girvan is a filthy person. I personally came in contact with him once and he put drugs in my drink. I caught him doing it. To say that Miranda took the drugs willingly is ridiculous.She just found herself with the wrong crowd. It happens in life. Trusting people sometimes meet sick people. Andrew had a gun and who knows. He could have held the gun to her head and made her take the pills.... It's unusual for a non-drug user to take so many pills. Especially when she was a regularly happy individual.
As for me. I was drugged through my drink. Sure I found myself in a bad situation, but it was NOT my fault that bastard drugged me. And number 2, it was not my fault he sexually assaulted me. This man has a past. Miranda wasn't the first and if the law doesn't stop Andrew Girvan then she wont be the last. Who will be next???? It could be you, a friend, your cousin, or a neighbor. Do we really want this drug dealer/sex offender to get off scott free? This world doesn't need more violated women that are told by society that it is "their own fault!"
DEBBE CASE

Anaheim, CA

#146 Nov 13, 2008
anonymous wrote:
Hi Debbe. Michael Dowd argued well in this case. However, I still ask, "What were the contents of Miranda's digestive tract?"
1. If Andrew Girvan knew exactly what Miranda had taken in the form of pills, did anyone verify that he was telling the truth?
2. If he was telling the truth, how did HE know what she had taken? Did she take those pills in his presence? If so, why would anyone allow such a thing to occur? Would any sane person allow someone they love to take those pills and stand idly by?
3. If the contents of her digestive tract DID NOT contain residual of any pills, then obviously Andrew Girvan is lying! Miranda did not take any pills and the method of administration had to have been involuntary.
These are questions that I would like to see addressed by Michael Dowd.
I would certainly like to know this and have all these questions answered...
DEBBE CASE

Anaheim, CA

#147 Nov 13, 2008
Annoymous in CA wrote:
Andrew Girvan is a filthy person. I personally came in contact with him once and he put drugs in my drink. I caught him doing it. To say that Miranda took the drugs willingly is ridiculous.She just found herself with the wrong crowd. It happens in life. Trusting people sometimes meet sick people. Andrew had a gun and who knows. He could have held the gun to her head and made her take the pills.... It's unusual for a non-drug user to take so many pills. Especially when she was a regularly happy individual.
As for me. I was drugged through my drink. Sure I found myself in a bad situation, but it was NOT my fault that **** drugged me. And number 2, it was not my fault he sexually assaulted me. This man has a past. Miranda wasn't the first and if the law doesn't stop Andrew Girvan then she wont be the last. Who will be next???? It could be you, a friend, your cousin, or a neighbor. Do we really want this drug dealer/sex offender to get off scott free? This world doesn't need more violated women that are told by society that it is "their own fault!"
This is compelling...
Have you or will you contact the prosecutor and detective on this case? I understand most people who know him are afraid to come forward.

By coming forward you will not only help with this case, but anyone else who may be his next victim, when they let him out, because believe me this man knows they system and he always gets out, unless he can be stopped when the State of California put him in prison for a long time where he belongs,
away from society!

and thank you so much for this information, I'm sorry for what you've gone through too and hope that if anything you are not revictimized by our system by coming forward.
Donna

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

#148 Nov 13, 2008
Dear Anonymous..I am so sorry to hear what happened to you. Please make a statement to the D.A. about it. Debbe is correct in saying he will never stop until he is stopped. He has been instrumental in 2 deaths and we don't know how many rapes or other violent acts. Whether you decide to talk about it or not please know my heart hurts for you. Cameron put up a good front but underneath it he was a sweet, sentimental guy and he would be apalled at what Andrew did to you. Donna (Cameron's mom)
anonymous

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#149 Nov 13, 2008
OMG! Andrew Girvan just gets better and better as a human being doesn't he!

If you have the strength to come forward, I also encourage you to do so.

Debbe, have to asked those questions of Michael Dowd? What does he say? What did the autopsy say?

"We the People" are trying Andrew Girvan. We ARE "The People". Don't forget that!
Annoymous in CA

Livingston Manor, NY

#150 Nov 14, 2008
I just want everyone to know that I WILL come forward to the furthest extent of the law. It's unfortunate that Miranda and Cameron have left us but I will be there to talk about it. I'm one of the lucky ones that lived through it.I got away when I could and I was transported to the hospital until I recovered. I will speak up for the people that cannot be here to talk about it today. Girvan is going down!!!!! God rest the souls he has taken and may he never be allowed out of prison to hurt another.
anonymous

Long Beach, CA

#151 Nov 14, 2008
Annoymous in CA wrote:
I just want everyone to know that I WILL come forward to the furthest extent of the law. It's unfortunate that Miranda and Cameron have left us but I will be there to talk about it. I'm one of the lucky ones that lived through it.I got away when I could and I was transported to the hospital until I recovered. I will speak up for the people that cannot be here to talk about it today. Girvan is going down!!!!! God rest the souls he has taken and may he never be allowed out of prison to hurt another.
I pray God give you strength. And if you need support we are here for you. But did you say you caught him putting something in your drink? Then why did you still drink it? And then he raped you afterward? OMG! Who took you to the hospital? You poor thing!
Donna

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

#152 Nov 15, 2008
Thank you for saying you will report this. Please do it!!! Debbe, please post for this girl and anyone else where to report anything on Mr. Andrew Girvan.

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