Westover is top choice in magnet school lottery

you mention Stamford Academy as a HS, I did not even hear about the until we were many years in the SPS. It is (I beleive) the HS for problems. I don't believe they are count toward our High School graduation rates.

Oh and as for my elemantary school years I remember them well, I am still friend with the some of the kids. I believe children learn most of the primary stuff at home. Like justice, advocacy and standing up for what is right. Unfortunatly our kids are learning some pretty unfortunate thinks from our BOE. What do you like kids think when they read in the paper that there school is going to be closed because they don't do well enought on overblown tests? And what they must think when they learn that all the dirubtion is base on race and the BOE insitance that we balance our public schools to 10%(not25%)racial balance?

I tell my children that who you are, how much you learn has nothing to do with the color of your skin or the size of your wallet. And fortunately there are wonderful examples of this all over Stamford, it is depressing and will get worse when they start ripping apart the other schools like they have just started Newfield and Davenport. Just look at the population of the children on the buses, they will....

parent wrote:

Guys, let's keep it in perspective...it's just elementary school. I mean, how good was your own elementary school? Do you know? Did your parents know? How much impact did it really have on your life?
As important as this seems to you now, in a couple of years your kids will be out of elementary school, mixing with many more kids in middle school. And then ALL the kids in Stamford funnel into just 4 public high schools (SHS, WHS, AITE and Stamford Academy.) Your kids will meet up with LOTS of different kids, from all parts of the city.
Of course we all want the best for our kids, but believe me, the Westover/Toquam kids are not doing better in middle school or high school than all the other kids--kids from the "failing" schools are in the zero cog at all the middle schools and plenty of honors classes in high school. You'll see when you get there. This is all so overblown it's silly.

Successful wrote:

magnet programs should be dulicated at the "undesiriable" schools (like Hart, no Spanish there).
<quoted text>

I completely agree. I would love to see a successful program, such as the IB at Rogers, duplicated at schools such as KT Murphy. Both schools have a similar, unbalanced student population, yet Rogers seems to be improving while the other faulters.

Bait wrote:

and switch, problem is when you switch districts without ANY notification.(and no gossiping with the PFO president is not notification)
People who bought homes on Jan 15 in the Meadowpark area, did not know that the BOE had already decided to FORCE them to Hart. The dog and pony show fooled no one on the 22nd of Jan.
In addition, the whole magnet system that exists and extra funding is justified, "to balance the SPS". Is a crule joke.
Quite simply my children will be homeschooled before I bus them downtown.
<quoted text>

Curious...did you buy a home in the meadowpark area because of the school district?

By the way...on Jan 15, no one in the Meadowpark area knew. The BOE put together the resolution on Jan 16 without a public hearing and voted on it Jan 22. The Meadowpark families found out on the evening of Jan 18. FOUR days before the vote. We did our best to get the word out and get support but ultimately the BOE had made their decision before the first Meadowpark parent spoke.

parent wrote:

Guys, let's keep it in perspective...it's just elementary school. I mean, how good was your own elementary school? Do you know? Did your parents know? How much impact did it really have on your life?
As important as this seems to you now, in a couple of years your kids will be out of elementary school, mixing with many more kids in middle school. And then ALL the kids in Stamford funnel into just 4 public high schools (SHS, WHS, AITE and Stamford Academy.) Your kids will meet up with LOTS of different kids, from all parts of the city.
Of course we all want the best for our kids, but believe me, the Westover/Toquam kids are not doing better in middle school or high school than all the other kids--kids from the "failing" schools are in the zero cog at all the middle schools and plenty of honors classes in high school. You'll see when you get there. This is all so overblown it's silly.

You must not be affected by any of the redistricting yet.

parent wrote:

Guys, let's keep it in perspective...it's just elementary school. I mean, how good was your own elementary school? Do you know? Did your parents know? How much impact did it really have on your life?
As important as this seems to you now, in a couple of years your kids will be out of elementary school, mixing with many more kids in middle school. And then ALL the kids in Stamford funnel into just 4 public high schools (SHS, WHS, AITE and Stamford Academy.) Your kids will meet up with LOTS of different kids, from all parts of the city.
Of course we all want the best for our kids, but believe me, the Westover/Toquam kids are not doing better in middle school or high school than all the other kids--kids from the "failing" schools are in the zero cog at all the middle schools and plenty of honors classes in high school. You'll see when you get there. This is all so overblown it's silly.

Especially when you realize the cold hard fact that 16 outta 20 Stamford schools are quote-unquote "failing". Get over it. A smart kid is a smart kid ANYWHERE you put him/her. It all begins at home. Being involved at your child's school is the single best thing you can do for them. Not filling out a lottery application.

Yes, I bought my home for two major reasons, one Newfiled school district and the second that it did not have a double yellow line on the street. I sold real estate for over ten years before I became a full time stay at hime Mom, I look for over a year until I found my home.

Redistricted parent wrote:

<quoted text>
Curious...did you buy a home in the meadowpark area because of the school district?
By the way...on Jan 15, no one in the Meadowpark area knew. The BOE put together the resolution on Jan 16 without a public hearing and voted on it Jan 22. The Meadowpark families found out on the evening of Jan 18. FOUR days before the vote. We did our best to get the word out and get support but ultimately the BOE had made their decision before the first Meadowpark parent spoke.

how many kid are in your childrens class?

so right wrote:

<quoted text>Especially when you realize the cold hard fact that 16 outta 20 Stamford schools are quote-unquote "failing". Get over it. A smart kid is a smart kid ANYWHERE you put him/her. It all begins at home. Being involved at your child's school is the single best thing you can do for them. Not filling out a lottery application.

Newfield wrote:

Yes, I bought my home for two major reasons, one Newfiled school district and the second that it did not have a double yellow line on the street. I sold real estate for over ten years before I became a full time stay at hime Mom, I look for over a year until I found my home.
<quoted text>

Do you have a child in Newfield now?
Meadowpark is still fighting this...

<G> The BOE is in an impossible situation. If they make all their discussions public as they have them, they appear to be indecisive, and lacking sufficient information. If they spend time thinking through each possibility before making the discussion public, they are accused of being secretive and keeping information from the public. If they consider only one school for closing, they are accused of not considering all options, but if they consider many options, well, clearly they "lack vision". It appears to me the BOE has suffered mostly from its transparency: holding open meetings to consider various options before they have been vetted...but that's what the public wants: transparency.

Redistricting is somewhat like making sausage. It's an unattractive process that is better done out of the public view. But that would violate FOI.

As to the magnet process. In fact, the magnet selection process does provide choice for most students. The problem is that the purpose of the magnet schools is to manage the enrollment, including socio-economic balance. When the schools are all balanced, there is no problem with allowing anyone to apply to magnet schools. When some schools become imbalanced, allowing all students to apply to magnet schools can have the effect of increasing the imbalance. THAT is why redistricting is necessary. If successful, redistricting will restore the balance in the schools and enable the magnet process to be open again to all students, and everyone will "have a fair shot" again.

It is fair comment to complain that the restrictions on the magnet process have been poorly commnicated.

Duped wrote:

Publius -
You make some valid points regarding the tough job any BOE has when it comes to redistricting. However, the BOE is doing this city a disservice when their processes are less than transparent and seemingly without vision. They are also not winning over any support when they claim the magnet schools provide choice when, the reality of the situation is that it provides choice to only select residents that fall into a certain category - and this is not, and never has been, clearly communicated. The very first line on the Stamford Public School website says regarding magnet schools - "Stamford's magnet schools offer educational choices to parents through innovative programs of theme-based instruction."
http://stamfordpublicschools.org/content/64/1...
Makes it seem like everyone has a fair shot at them, which just isn't true. I'm now a little older and a little wiser to the ways of the Stamford public school system, but every year, you are going to get new, unsuspecting and naive parents like I was believing in something that just isn't true.
<quoted text>

Publius,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I can't disagree with a single thing you said. And I'm glad you understand my point about the lack of communication regarding the lottery system.

You seem to be well in tune with the workings of the system, so I have one more question for you. The magnet programs seem to have some interesting and seemingly successful programs going on (Bankstreet, International Bachelorette, etc...) That is really what drew me to the magnet system. Has the BOE investigated implementing any of these programs in district schools? Also, in your opinion, is it these programs that are making the magnets successful, or is it other variables?

Publius wrote:

<G> The BOE is in an impossible situation. If they make all their discussions public as they have them, they appear to be indecisive, and lacking sufficient information. If they spend time thinking through each possibility before making the discussion public, they are accused of being secretive and keeping information from the public. If they consider only one school for closing, they are accused of not considering all options, but if they consider many options, well, clearly they "lack vision". It appears to me the BOE has suffered mostly from its transparency: holding open meetings to consider various options before they have been vetted...but that's what the public wants: transparency.
Redistricting is somewhat like making sausage. It's an unattractive process that is better done out of the public view. But that would violate FOI.
As to the magnet process. In fact, the magnet selection process does provide choice for most students. The problem is that the purpose of the magnet schools is to manage the enrollment, including socio-economic balance. When the schools are all balanced, there is no problem with allowing anyone to apply to magnet schools. When some schools become imbalanced, allowing all students to apply to magnet schools can have the effect of increasing the imbalance. THAT is why redistricting is necessary. If successful, redistricting will restore the balance in the schools and enable the magnet process to be open again to all students, and everyone will "have a fair shot" again.
It is fair comment to complain that the restrictions on the magnet process have been poorly commnicated.
<quoted text>

Duped wrote:

Publius,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I can't disagree with a single thing you said. And I'm glad you understand my point about the lack of communication regarding the lottery system.
You seem to be well in tune with the workings of the system, so I have one more question for you. The magnet programs seem to have some interesting and seemingly successful programs going on (Bankstreet, International Bachelorette, etc...) That is really what drew me to the magnet system. Has the BOE investigated implementing any of these programs in district schools? Also, in your opinion, is it these programs that are making the magnets successful, or is it other variables?
<quoted text>

Any school can implement a special program. The IB program at Rogers was intiated by the parents. Magnet schools tend to have special prgrams as a marketing tool, to attract students. Districted schools get students automatically and so lack the motivation to implement a magnet program.

But several years ago, Stark School was awarded a substantial grant to be a "community school", The grant allowed for after school programs as well as health assistance. Unfortunately the proram was not welcomed by some in the Stark community and was withdrawn.

In my opinion the special programs in the magnet schools are a very minor aspect of the success of the schools. Selective populations, highly engaged and motivated administrators, and parental involvement are probably much more important factors.

Only a few years ago, Hart had the highest 6th grade scores in the City, higher than Westover (CMT tests were given in September in 6th grade to students who had just left elementary school, so their scores reflected their elementary school more than their middle school experience). As Hart's magnet population dropped, and neighborhood population rose, and it became socio-economically unbalanced, its scores dropped.

It is unfair to compare a school with 32% disadvantaged students to a school with 60% disadvantaged.

Funny wrote:

you mention Stamford Academy as a HS, I did not even hear about the until we were many years in the SPS. It is (I beleive) the HS for problems. I don't believe they are count toward our High School graduation rates.
Oh and as for my elemantary school years I remember them well, I am still friend with the some of the kids. I believe children learn most of the primary stuff at home. Like justice, advocacy and standing up for what is right. Unfortunatly our kids are learning some pretty unfortunate thinks from our BOE. What do you like kids think when they read in the paper that there school is going to be closed because they don't do well enought on overblown tests? And what they must think when they learn that all the dirubtion is base on race and the BOE insitance that we balance our public schools to 10%(not25%)racial balance?
I tell my children that who you are, how much you learn has nothing to do with the color of your skin or the size of your wallet. And fortunately there are wonderful examples of this all over Stamford, it is depressing and will get worse when they start ripping apart the other schools like they have just started Newfield and Davenport. Just look at the population of the children on the buses, they will....
<quoted text>

Stamford Academy is NOT a Stamford Public School. It is a Charter school under state supervision that is financially supported in part by Stamford Public Schools, but not under SPS control.

I suspect the students are learning some pretty unfortunate things from their parents, not from the BOE. e.g., they should be learning that closing schools that do not do well on tests is not the idea of Stamford's BOE, but of some tinkerers in Washington and Hartford. You may not be aware that the Stamford BOE voted NOT to consider test results in determining which school to close.

Of course, when the BOE considered closing a "successful" school, the parents of that school thought that using the results of an "overblown test" was a really important factor. And when the BOE considers closing an "unsuccessful" school, the parents of that school think the test results are "overblown".

So far, most of the "disruption" has nothing at all to do with racial or socio-economic balance; so far it's been mostly about which school to close.

And although any individual child, no matter how poor, can accomplish great things, and no matter how rich can do poorly in school, the FACTS are clear: there is a very high correlation between poverty and poor performance in school, and between not speaking English at home, and poor performance in school. And concentrating all the poor or non-english speaking children in a few schools, and all the children with financially strong well-educated families in a few other schools, will generally yield uneven results.

We certainly hear plenty from parents whose children may be redistricted to "downtown" schools about their objections to that.

Publius wrote:

<G> The problem is that the purpose of the magnet schools is to manage the enrollment, including socio-economic balance.
<quoted text>

HASN'T WORKED SO FAR>>>GET RID OF THE MAGNETS!!!
Then there will be schools in most neighborhoods.

Stamford parent wrote:

<quoted text>
HASN'T WORKED SO FAR>>>GET RID OF THE MAGNETS!!!
Then there will be schools in most neighborhoods.

Really? How will we build new schools in the old neighborhoods? Where will they fit? Who will pay for them? Stamford made a decision almost 40 years ago to integrate the schools. Part of that decision involved closing some of the old, functionally obsolete schools in the older parts of town, and build new modern schools in midtown. Right or wrong, in retrospect, the schools we have are the schools we have.

There are just not enough seats in the southern part of town or in the far northern part of town to fit all the students who live there, and more schools than necessary in some other parts of town.

What is interesting is that the new EMS school is in fact in an area where there are more students than seats. So one would expect that people who favor "neighborhood" schools would be supporting it.

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
Really? How will we build new schools in the old neighborhoods? Where will they fit? Who will pay for them? Stamford made a decision almost 40 years ago to integrate the schools. Part of that decision involved closing some of the old, functionally obsolete schools in the older parts of town, and build new modern schools in midtown. Right or wrong, in retrospect, the schools we have are the schools we have.
There are just not enough seats in the southern part of town or in the far northern part of town to fit all the students who live there, and more schools than necessary in some other parts of town.
What is interesting is that the new EMS school is in fact in an area where there are more students than seats. So one would expect that people who favor "neighborhood" schools would be supporting it.

What is your take on moving the Rogers school into EMS? I have a feeling your were on the BOE when the EMS plan was developed and might have been a part of developing the plan and I'm wondering what your position is.

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
Really? How will we build new schools in the old neighborhoods? Where will they fit? Who will pay for them? Stamford made a decision almost 40 years ago to integrate the schools. Part of that decision involved closing some of the old, functionally obsolete schools in the older parts of town, and build new modern schools in midtown. Right or wrong, in retrospect, the schools we have are the schools we have.
There are just not enough seats in the southern part of town or in the far northern part of town to fit all the students who live there, and more schools than necessary in some other parts of town.
What is interesting is that the new EMS school is in fact in an area where there are more students than seats. So one would expect that people who favor "neighborhood" schools would be supporting it.

But there are 2 magnets on the West side, Hart and Westover...more kids need to be districted there. Westover has only has 25% walkers, alot more kids could be walking there if they were districted there.
If the magnets were created to help with over crowding and racial balance and they are not doing their job forget the lottery and just make them regular districted schools!

From SPS website:
http://stamfordpublicschools.org/filestorage/...

Student Enrollment By School With Number of Walkers
Fall 2007
School Student Count Number Walkers
Davenport 514 41 8%
Hart 417 274 66%
K. T. Murphy 545 370 68%
Newfield 630 249 40%
Northeast 814 69 8%
Rogers 527 333 63%
Roxbury 651 33 5%
Springdale 567 298 53%
Stark 591 337 57%
Stillmeadow 586 112 19%
Toquam 453 59 13%
Westover 633 158 25%
Cloonan 594 310 52%
Dolan 624 256 41%
Rippowam 811 160 20%
Scofield 604 0 0%
Turn of River 612 6 1%
AITE (in district) 344 56 16%
SHS 1780

More interesting info:
http://stamfordpublicschools.org/content/68/1...

Duped wrote:

Publius,
And I'm glad you understand my point about the lack of communication regarding the lottery system.
That is really what drew me to the magnet system.
<quoted text>

If you think there is a lack of communication as far as the lottery goes you should have read about it on the SPS website:
http://stamfordpublicschools.org/content/64/1...

Publius wrote:

<G>
It is fair comment to complain that the restrictions on the magnet process have been poorly commnicated.
<quoted text>

Marty it's not up to you to decide what's fair and unfair on a public message board.

Stamford parent wrote:

<quoted text>
But there are 2 magnets on the West side, Hart and Westover...more kids need to be districted there. Westover has only has 25% walkers, alot more kids could be walking there if they were districted there.
If the magnets were created to help with over crowding and racial balance and they are not doing their job forget the lottery and just make them regular districted schools!

Then you should be pleased that the BOE has districted the CT Ave. neighborhood to Westover instead of having them a preference zone. So more kids ARE districted there. And the BOE reduced slightly the number of magnet slots at Hart.