created by: CitizenTopix | Oct 11, 2010

Oklahoma

1,411 votes

OK Health Care Freedom Amendment, State Question 756

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21,101 - 21,120 of 72,106 Comments Last updated 1 hr ago
Packing Heat

United States

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#21671
Jun 23, 2012
 
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Only a truly ignorant person would still be opposing socialized medicine in America. ONLY someone who has a financial gain to be made by opposing socialized medicine can be understood. What can't be understood, tolerated or rationalized is those with no company that stands to gain by the current system who oppose socialized medicine. In other words the far right imbeciles. Toads. Hicks, hillbillies, stupids, rednecks alike.


Still whining and crying, get you a damn job and pay your own and quit leaching of the taxpayer for you existance. You damn liberal hacks are all just alike, want something for nothing
Packing Heat

United States

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#21672
Jun 23, 2012
 
DustyOutlaw wrote:
Only a jackass would compare socialized medicine to "supplying everyone with a cell phone". That's about as straw man and straw man can be.


Only a lazy dumbass liberal hack like you keeps crying and wanting something for free. Get a damn job!

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21673
Jun 23, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Only a truly ignorant person would still be opposing socialized medicine in America. ONLY someone who has a financial gain to be made by opposing socialized medicine can be understood. What can't be understood, tolerated or rationalized is those with no company that stands to gain by the current system who oppose socialized medicine. In other words the far right imbeciles. Toads. Hicks, hillbillies, stupids, rednecks alike.
Dusty,

Nowhere have I stated I was against socialized medicine. You make that up and then attack me for it. That is a strawman arguement...that's not calling "you" a strawman. Do you know the difference?

It's the same strawman arguement if I was to say "your for socialized medicine, therefore your a communist, or a left wing hack, an imbecile....or whatever else name I could dream up. It's not debating anything.

You wrote:

"We are the only industrialized nation in the world without socialized medicine and we rank 12th in word in medical care and we are the most expensive."

That was the only thing you said in your entire rant against me. I happen to agree with that statement. But because I point out the logical fallacy in a posters statement you build a strawman and attack it like I hold an opposing viewpoint.

If you made the statement sunshine is good....and I said rain is good also...you could say if it rained all the time it would flood the earth and kill everything in it...therefore I am for flooding the earth and killing everything in it. That's a strawman arguement. It's a fallacy.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21674
Jun 23, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
Only a jackass would compare socialized medicine to "supplying everyone with a cell phone". That's about as straw man and straw man can be.
You really should educate yourself Dusty. You have the time...take advantage of it.

Since: Apr 10

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#21675
Jun 23, 2012
 
Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
You really should educate yourself Dusty. You have the time...take advantage of it.
I would imagine that if you working class poor, paying a higher rate of taxes than Rupert Murdoch and you child is dying of cancer that you might see the difference in socialized medicine and giving everyone a cell phone Mr. Straw man.

Since: Apr 10

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#21676
Jun 23, 2012
 
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
Still whining and crying, get you a damn job and pay your own and quit leaching of the taxpayer for you existance. You damn liberal hacks are all just alike, want something for nothing
Socialized medicine is not free for anyone. Everyone pays in. You're a stupid man.
Packing Heat

United States

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#21677
Jun 23, 2012
 
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Socialized medicine is not free for anyone. Everyone pays in. You're a stupid man.


I have a better idea, you pay your own way and I pay my own way.
Problem solved!

Since: Apr 10

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#21678
Jun 23, 2012
 

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Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a better idea, you pay your own way and I pay my own way.
Problem solved!
I have a better idea. Everyone gets a chance to pay their own way. Socialized medicine.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21679
Jun 23, 2012
 

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Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
I hear you. Trying to but he doesn't pay attention. Just like all leftwing hacks, if you do not agree with him then he starts crying and name calling. I suppose I shouldn't stoop down to his level but it is entertaining to watch his anger spew out.
He tries to run off all those that disagree with him but I have breaking news for that hack, I am here to stay.
I'm afraid you are correct if you continue to point out where he is wrong. He really should learn some new material instead of his old lame "nice pig routine", lol.
I could agree with some of the liberal ideas if they came with solutions like you offered where the taxpayer as a whole gets something in return. The problem is hacks like Dusty want to soak the rich and have it handed to them and give nothing in return and I'll never ever agree to such nonsense.
The one thing I look for in people is not so much their ideology or bias...but whether they are "rigid" in it. Your to the right...and you know you are...yet your not blind. You do have the ability to see both sides. You are open to other points of view...just not rigid points of view. For that reason alone I hope you stick around to give me your points of view on some ideas I will present later.

I'm not for or against socialized medicine...I am more concerned with how it is done. We're going to have it....so lets have a good system. I don't want anything that kills the free market ie all rich are evil...nor do I want anything that leads to communism ie the government takes care of all your needs. Either or is not acceptable.
Packing Heat

United States

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#21680
Jun 23, 2012
 
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a better idea. Everyone gets a chance to pay their own way. Socialized medicine.


No thanks, not interested. And when the SCOTUS throws that mess Democrats wasted 2 years on I hope we are through with this subject. Oh and while they're at they can also give back the half trillions dollars they stole from the seniors medicare damn theives.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21681
Jun 23, 2012
 
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I would imagine that if you working class poor, paying a higher rate of taxes than Rupert Murdoch and you child is dying of cancer that you might see the difference in socialized medicine and giving everyone a cell phone Mr. Straw man.
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.

What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.

Since: Apr 10

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#21682
Jun 23, 2012
 
Packing Heat wrote:
<quoted text>
No thanks, not interested. And when the SCOTUS throws that mess Democrats wasted 2 years on I hope we are through with this subject. Oh and while they're at they can also give back the half trillions dollars they stole from the seniors medicare damn theives.
Of course you're not interested. You want the veterans over at the understaffed and incompetent veterans administration. You want seniors trying to find a doctor who will take medicare and they pay a third of their social security for plan B and a supplement. You want the working class poor to not have any medical at all and you want all illegals deported and all welfare people thrown off the books and their kids can just starve. Or a reasonable person would say it's time we put them all together, made everyone pay something and minimized the most obscene profits every seen. The insurance industry. It's a very ugly world you live in. VERY UGLY

Since: Apr 10

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#21683
Jun 23, 2012
 

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Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.
What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.
You might want to take a shot at that education yourself. My education may be dated but it's not worthless and I do know the difference is socialism and a single socialist program. The entire world of industrialized nations, conservative or liberal have socialized medicine. It's not a disease that is to be avoided. We are the ONLY nation of any stature whatsoever without socialized medicine. To claim it is socialism is a straw man argument which brands all of the nation as a socialist nation if a single program is socialized. We have socialist programs throughout our government. Some work, some don't. All need to be purged of corruption. Just as every conservative program does, as every moderate program does. That's not the issue. The issue is that the working class poor of the USA should have access to affordable health care. You really need to stop stealing the Fem Nazi term "straw man" accusation. It's the "insult" of ignorance. And when you have a double masters in both Business Administration and Political Science, however dated it may be, then you lecture me on straw man arguments. Until then you are just showing your ass.

Since: Apr 10

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#21684
Jun 23, 2012
 

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Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.
What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.
I always find it telling when someone like you ignore the bile and hysteria of one just like you in Packing Heat but throw your "Straw man" BS at anyone not an extremist right winger. Then claim to be a moderate. It's not my way or the highway. It's any way but the far right and far left ways. Because they are the same ways. But you never have anything argumentative to say to anyone just like you. Just like the fem nazi's with their own. You people give yourselves away. You never criticize your own. I was with both the extreme left and right. You war with everyone except the far right. You are what you cannot bring yourself to oppose.

Since: Apr 10

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#21685
Jun 23, 2012
 
coorection: I war with both the extremist left and right.

Since: Jul 10

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#21686
Jun 23, 2012
 

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Who Is Obama wrote:
<quoted text>
I do see the difference...what you fail to see is that both are forms of socialism.
What you also fail to understand is the basic forms of debate arguements. Debates are arguements for or against a line of reasoning...not your way or the highway.
==========

Your argument on "arguements"[sic] is argumentally overstated.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21687
Jun 23, 2012
 
Dusty,
If you don't like being called on your strawman arguements...quit using them. Debate issues on their own merit. Agree or disagree...and state your position...don't state mine. I've got the time....so let's go line by line again so we can get it perfectly clear.
"You might want to take a shot at that education yourself. My education may be dated but it's not worthless and I do know the difference is socialism and a single socialist program."
You should by now, and your opinion on an issue is welcome...but not the attitude your point of view is the only right point of view.
"The entire world of industrialized nations, conservative or liberal have socialized medicine. It's not a disease that is to be avoided."
I haven't avoided it at all.
"To claim it is socialism is a straw man argument which brands all of the nation as a socialist nation if a single program is socialized."
This is where you are confused....socialized medicine is socialism...that's not a strawman arguement...it's fact. The second part of your statement where if someone declared a single socialized program made an entire nation socialist....would in fact be a strawman arguement. So you are technically correct...but I personally have never called our nation a socialist nation.
"We have socialist programs throughout our government. Some work, some don't. All need to be purged of corruption.Just as every conservative program does, as every moderate program does. That's not the issue."
I agree 100%.
"The issue is that the working class poor of the USA should have access to affordable health care."
I agree 100%. But access to affordable care is not in itself socialism...free is. The issue is that healthcare is "not" affordable to the working class poor. Why that is...is a debatable subject.
"You really need to stop stealing the Fem Nazi term "straw man" accusation. It's the "insult" of ignorance."
You need to understand what a strawman arguement is. It's not a liberal arguement nor a conservative arguement...it's a "type" of arguement. Generally people who use such arguements are ignorant....even though I am not calling you ignorant...except your ignorance of what is a strawman arguement.
"And when you have a double masters in both Business Administration and Political Science, however dated it may be, then you lecture me on straw man arguments."
Well Dusty...I find it hard to believe that someone who has double masters in Business Administration and Political Science doesn't understand the concept of strawman arguements. Most people learn it in high school....yet you base a lot of what you say on it....and deny it. A verb is a verb...a noun is a noun...a strawman arguement is a strawman arguement...it is what it is. It's not an opinion.
"Until then you are just showing your ass."
Now that is an opinion....yours....but an opinion nonetheless.
Packing Heat

United States

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#21688
Jun 23, 2012
 
DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you're not interested. You want the veterans over at the understaffed and incompetent veterans administration. You want seniors trying to find a doctor who will take medicare and they pay a third of their social security for plan B and a supplement. You want the working class poor to not have any medical at all and you want all illegals deported and all welfare people thrown off the books and their kids can just starve. Or a reasonable person would say it's time we put them all together, made everyone pay something and minimized the most obscene profits every seen. The insurance industry. It's a very ugly world you live in. VERY UGLY


That's correct, I am not remotely interested.
Negative effects of socialized medicine.
1. People take advantage of things when they're 'free'. But it isn't really free. It's paid for with taxes.
2. Wait times increase drastically.
3. The availability of doctors and hospital beds decreases.

The only way to counteract that is to limit availability and limit service, or magically get more doctors and hospitals. Eventually, as history has shown, demand on the system exceeds the funding. This leads to health care operating like every other government program, requiring rationing or more funding.

Instead of doctors and patients determining what's best the government takes on that responsibility. As part of the rationing they decide what procedures or medications are necessary like Obama's 15 member Death Panel. NO THANKS!

Japan is moving away from socialism. Canada is re-examining their socialized health care. There are doctor protests in many European countries over the lack of pay. England is facing an epidemic lack of dentists.

There's a reason why thousands of people from all over the world come to the United States for their medical care, it's available, on their terms, when they want it. Health care, between Medicare and direct subsidies, is already 1/3 of the US federal budget. We should find out in the next week or so the SCOTUS's decision. GOOD-BYE OBAMACARE LOL.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21689
Jun 23, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
<quoted text>
I always find it telling when someone like you ignore the bile and hysteria of one just like you in Packing Heat but throw your "Straw man" BS at anyone not an extremist right winger. Then claim to be a moderate. It's not my way or the highway. It's any way but the far right and far left ways. Because they are the same ways. But you never have anything argumentative to say to anyone just like you. Just like the fem nazi's with their own. You people give yourselves away. You never criticize your own. I was with both the extreme left and right. You war with everyone except the far right. You are what you cannot bring yourself to oppose.
Dusty,

I don't come here to war with anyone. I agree with some of the things the "femi nazi" stated. I agree with some of the things Heat says. I try to look for things I can agree on and less of what I don't. I didn't argue with Minute on everything I didn't like...nor do I argue with Heat on the same. I don't call you out on your opinions...you call me and I defend myself. I agree with you probably more than anyone else...yet because I don't fight with every single member of the forum I'm your enemy. I understand being in the middle will cause me to catch flak from both ends...and frankly I don't care.

I'm more interested in the far left and far right than I am in a moderate (like yourself) point of view...because I like to think of potential solutions to issues....and for any solution to ever be reality it has to appease both sides. This is why I like Heat and Minute...because they are far right and far left.

Since: May 12

Tulsa, OK

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#21690
Jun 23, 2012
 

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DustyOutlaw wrote:
coorection: I war with both the extremist left and right.
Dusty,

I think you war with everyone.

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