Delray firefighters protest possible removal of pension benefits

Put these people on 12 hour shifts and we(tax payers) can stop paying these guys to sleep, watch tv, and eat, and get them to actually earn these pensions that most of the working world doesn't get. Group of spoiled brats!

Ok Mr. Brilliant, let's consider some ramifications of going to a 12 hour shift:
Equipment checkout: 2-3 hours
State and Federally mandated training: 2-3 hours
Eating (unless you don't think it will be necessary to eat during a 12 hour shift): 1 hour
Actually running calls: 6-8 hours.
Wait, we're over the 12 hour limit.
IF your firemen get paid to sleep and watch TV it is a great day for all. Remember, when your world is completely upside down and you are having an incredibly bad day, it's the firemen who show up to try to make things better.
Firefighters have been getting a bad rap from a few people in these blogs and I'm sick of it. These men and women risk their lives to help the public in their time of need. The naysayers will say that we don't have many fires in South Florida. I say this: how many burning buildings are you willing to go into?
Do we complain about paying our military? More than half of them are stationed around the world, waiting for something to happen. Perhaps they shouldn't get paid because they aren't actively engaged in fighting a war.
This is the kind of ludicrous reasoning you perpetuate with your feeble, jealousy induced arguments.
To become a Firefighter/Paramedic requires 3 years of schooling and countless hours of continuing education. Firefighters have a 34% higher risk of getting cancer. In addition, firefighters die 10.7 years earlier than the general public- on average. Firemen don't do the job for money. After paying 9-17% INTO the pension fund for 25+ years, they do walk away with a good benefit. Your quote says that they should "earn these pensions that most of the working world does not get". I would argue that if most of the working world was willing to put 9% or more of their earnings away, they would have a comparable benefit. Read a little and learn something before you spew your venom.

QUOTE who="Mike from Delray"]Put these people on 12 hour shifts and we(tax payers) can stop paying these guys to sleep, watch tv, and eat, and get them to actually earn these pensions that most of the working world doesn't get. Group of spoiled brats!

Bill from Boca wrote:

Do we complain about paying our military? More than half of them are stationed around the world, waiting for something to happen. Perhaps they shouldn't get paid because they aren't actively engaged in fighting a war.

Yet, these same men and women, who are stationed around the world protecting our nation, are making OVER HALF of what firefighters make. Why is that?

Bill from Boca wrote:

Equipment checkout: 2-3 hours

Yea right. MAYBE, and I mean MAYBE, this will happen if you have a student, newbie, or if a chief is at the station.

Bill from Boca wrote:

Firemen don't do the job for money.

B.S. Money has a lot do to with it. I agree the benefits and pension do too, but it's all about that salary. Answer me this. Would these firefighters agree to take a pay cut or agree to no pay increases for say the next 3 years or so (they will still have full benefits/pensions), if this was a for sure way to alleviate the budget crisis most cities are in (Also no lay-offs)?

Yet wrote:

<quoted text>
B.S. Money has a lot do to with it. I agree the benefits and pension do too, but it's all about that salary. Answer me this. Would these firefighters agree to take a pay cut or agree to no pay increases for say the next 3 years or so (they will still have full benefits/pensions), if this was a for sure way to alleviate the budget crisis most cities are in (Also no lay-offs)?

No one gets into this line of work to become rich. There is no such thing as a rich firefighter. No such thing as an elderly retired firefighter either. Cities match the firefighters contributions into their pensions, much in the same way private companies match a 401K. The money gets invested in FRS. Upon retirement the firefighter recieves checks from those investments.

Fired up wrote:

<quoted text>No one gets into this line of work to become rich. There is no such thing as a rich firefighter. No such thing as an elderly retired firefighter either. Cities match the firefighters contributions into their pensions, much in the same way private companies match a 401K. The money gets invested in FRS. Upon retirement the firefighter recieves checks from those investments.

Are you kidding. All have a lottery level pensions, retired in their 40s with the time to develop new careers to move on thru their later years. Where else can you do this?

Yesterday the USA Today had an article on Double Dipping pensions and Florida was the worst.

The Hammer is coming down.

IAFF wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you kidding. All have a lottery level pensions, retired in their 40s with the time to develop new careers to move on thru their later years. Where else can you do this?
Yesterday the USA Today had an article on Double Dipping pensions and Florida was the worst.
The Hammer is coming down.

Hey dummy !! We firefighters owe you NOTHING.

You must be one of those laid off employees from a bank or other big corporation. Did you loose your retirement? Your a roach, a low life, a worm.
Again we owe you nothing. Now let me finish my wine and cigar. I do need to get up early Sat to take my mercedes for a brake job.$645.00 brake job you know. I make big money and I have great pension. I DO NOT OWE YOU NOTHING s c u m Bucket.

Yet wrote:

<quoted text>
B.S. Money has a lot do to with it. I agree the benefits and pension do too, but it's all about that salary. Answer me this. Would these firefighters agree to take a pay cut or agree to no pay increases for say the next 3 years or so (they will still have full benefits/pensions), if this was a for sure way to alleviate the budget crisis most cities are in (Also no lay-offs)?

Hey ....Your another dummy. The answer is NO.
Where was the pitty on fireman and police man in the 80s and 90s ? LOL We are getting last laugh now....you bigger dummy. LOL get lost and pay your stining taxes you worthless rat.

Yet wrote:

<quoted text>
Yet, these same men and women, who are stationed around the world protecting our nation, are making OVER HALF of what firefighters make. Why is that?

OMG. Buy a gun and shoot youself.

Mike from Delray wrote:

Put these people on 12 hour shifts and we(tax payers) can stop paying these guys to sleep, watch tv, and eat, and get them to actually earn these pensions that most of the working world doesn't get. Group of spoiled brats!

Why did you fail the fire academy?

Yet wrote:

<quoted text>
B.S. Money has a lot do to with it. I agree the benefits and pension do too, but it's all about that salary. Answer me this. Would these firefighters agree to take a pay cut or agree to no pay increases for say the next 3 years or so (they will still have full benefits/pensions), if this was a for sure way to alleviate the budget crisis most cities are in (Also no lay-offs)?

I don't know where you have experience or firsthand knowledge of the fire service, but it is obviously a tainted view. Please do your research. Most fire departments have worked with their cities to make monetary concessions and avoid layoffs. They are a brotherhood. Many fire departments who are currently in contract negotiations will probably receive incredibly minor changes to their salaries (1-2%), if anything. Yes, the hammer is indeed coming down, but it is aimed squarely at the taxpayer who voted in Amendment 1 and expected there to be no reduction in the level of services they receive.

As far as pensions go, let's do some quick math:

Invest 9-15% of your pay into a 401(k) or other retirement vehicle. Earn, on average, 7% OR MORE per year. Retire rich.

Now, most firefighters are in a defined benefit pension plan, one which guarantees them a finite amount of money at the end of their career. They do not enjoy additional benefits if the market does well. Conversely, they DO get threatened by their employers with a reduction in benefit when the market does poorly. After serving a city, county or other municipality for 25+ years, I'd say it is the least we can do to give them some minor bit of respect and security in their retirement years. Please don't let jealously or ignorant reparte govern your opinion. Opportunity is available to all of us who are willing to work hard. In the fire service, like in the normal business world, education and experience are compensated. I don't hold that against them, but rather celebrate the fact that the cities are placing emphasis on hiring and retaining properly trained and motivated people to protect me and my property.

FFPMRN wrote:

<quoted text>
OMG. Buy a gun and shoot youself.

Great answer. I would really hate to know the fire department and hospital that hired you. You're a real idiot, and I'm sure it shows in your work.

FFPMRN wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey ....Your another dummy. The answer is NO.
Where was the pitty on fireman and police man in the 80s and 90s ? LOL We are getting last laugh now....you bigger dummy. LOL get lost and pay your stining taxes you worthless rat.

I knew the answer would be 'No' from the get go. It's all about the almighty dollar. If you are truely a firefighter/paramedic saying idiotic things like "we are getting the last laugh now" and "pay your taxes your worthless rat", this is coming across as firefighters don't give a rat's behind on the citizens they protect as long as they keep getting paid what they (or the IAFF) thinks they should be getting.

FFPMRN wrote:

<quoted text>
Why did you fail the fire academy?

Wow, another great answer. On every fire related blog, all I see is "you could not pass EMT, Medic, or Fire School" or "you can't get hired because you can't pass the background, lie detector, etc" when someone says something negative about the fire service. Is that all got in terms of comebacks? Same old statements, different blogs.

Did you fail the fire academy Gomer? Im talking to you.

Bill from Boca wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know where you have experience or firsthand knowledge of the fire service, but it is obviously a tainted view. Please do your research. Most fire departments have worked with their cities to make monetary concessions and avoid layoffs. They are a brotherhood. Many fire departments who are currently in contract negotiations will probably receive incredibly minor changes to their salaries (1-2%), if anything. Yes, the hammer is indeed coming down, but it is aimed squarely at the taxpayer who voted in Amendment 1 and expected there to be no reduction in the level of services they receive.
As far as pensions go, let's do some quick math:
Invest 9-15% of your pay into a 401(k) or other retirement vehicle. Earn, on average, 7% OR MORE per year. Retire rich.
Now, most firefighters are in a defined benefit pension plan, one which guarantees them a finite amount of money at the end of their career. They do not enjoy additional benefits if the market does well. Conversely, they DO get threatened by their employers with a reduction in benefit when the market does poorly. After serving a city, county or other municipality for 25+ years, I'd say it is the least we can do to give them some minor bit of respect and security in their retirement years. Please don't let jealously or ignorant reparte govern your opinion. Opportunity is available to all of us who are willing to work hard. In the fire service, like in the normal business world, education and experience are compensated. I don't hold that against them, but rather celebrate the fact that the cities are placing emphasis on hiring and retaining properly trained and motivated people to protect me and my property.

Yet these monetary concessions will barely help with the budget crisis. Fire and police have the biggest budgets in most cities. They should be hit the hardest. Of course, the precious IAFF is not going to allow this. I say start with their salaries. They need to take a pay-cut. The median income for South Florida is probably in the low 40's, but the median income for a South Florida firefighter is double. How can we justify this? In regards to investments, yes I know that a person can become "rich" if he/she invests properly and is able to invest 9-15%(your stats) of their pay. Of course, most people can't afford that unless they are making big money like firefighters do. Firefighters are able to invest large percentages of their pay to go towards their retirement (a nice well-off retirement), and still "bring home" the median South Florida income to live off until that day comes (which I think is their 25th yr of service).

Fired up wrote:

<quoted text>No one gets into this line of work to become rich. There is no such thing as a rich firefighter. No such thing as an elderly retired firefighter either. Cities match the firefighters contributions into their pensions, much in the same way private companies match a 401K. The money gets invested in FRS. Upon retirement the firefighter recieves checks from those investments.

The only reason the cities contribute to the pension fund is because the IAFF forces them into it. The IAFF uses fear and doom to pressure cities to get what they want. And what do mean there no elderly retired Firemen? Then explain to me if there is no elderly retired Fireman, then how are they collecting there pensions? I have no problem with a Firefighter getting a pension and retiring but, when they are making double to triple of what the average person in the state makes it is a little crazy. Like some other people on this blog said if you add anywhere from 9% to 15% to your 401K you could retire rich, but most people could only do 3% to 6%. This is were the fireman have the upper hand. They are already getting top dollar for there job and with overtime, this were they paying for there pension. And still bring home more the average person.

AMR EMPLOYEE wrote:

<quoted text>
The only reason the cities contribute to the pension fund is because the IAFF forces them into it. The IAFF uses fear and doom to pressure cities to get what they want. And what do mean there no elderly retired Firemen? Then explain to me if there is no elderly retired Fireman, then how are they collecting there pensions? I have no problem with a Firefighter getting a pension and retiring but, when they are making double to triple of what the average person in the state makes it is a little crazy. Like some other people on this blog said if you add anywhere from 9% to 15% to your 401K you could retire rich, but most people could only do 3% to 6%. This is were the fireman have the upper hand. They are already getting top dollar for there job and with overtime, this were they paying for there pension. And still bring home more the average person.

Again with this guy. Talk about an anti-fire agenda. Couldn't get hired? Fire academy too tough, or do you have a spotty background? I see your ISP is located in Aurora, Colorado. I heard in Aurora AMR doesn't even have the primary contract when it comes to EMS providers. http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/storie... No wonder you are bitter.

Put Fire/Rescue and Police on notice, we are taking cuts in the budget.

If they don't like it, we'll get a private contractor to do the job.

These people are the most overpaid whiners in any city budget.