Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday 47,067
When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#30760 Jun 15, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
"While the science may support the premise, that by itself is of little interest or value in reaching a useful or practical resolution"
Meaning that all you have for an argument is a conspiracy theory.
I have political actors and bodies like the UN and domestic US governments militating for global wealth re-distribution, redistributive and Pigolian taxation, increased regulation and restrictions in individual free choice in consumption and economic activities, diversion of public monies to fund sective "green" ventures - all overtly citing AGW THEORY as justification for these political and socioeconomic agendas.

So you are saying these actors and bodies are merely theoretical, and do not actually exist? You are denying that they are citing AGW THEORY explicitly as part of, if not the principal basis for their agendas of political and socioeconomic revolution?

If that's a mere "conspiracy theory" to you, then everything is just another conspiracy theory also, and your argument is no argument at all.
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text> '"science" is merely a convenient rhetorical cloak to mask their real agendas.'
In other words reject science if it does not support your favorite conspiracy.
That's your strawman.

No - accept the science, and having recognized it, accept also that it's then largely irrelevant to the REAL and LARGER political and socioeconomic matters at issue.
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text> "But when the premise is one of advocating the necessity of radically re-structuring societies, lifestyles, economies, and re-allocating global wealth and political power, these are not matters scientists are not qualified to deal with, and not amenable to inquiry by the scientific method. "
Double negative here, but I think I follow what you are trying to spin. We are talking about the science, not the political ramifications thereof.
I corrected the double-negative in a post immediately following - but you read this as intended.

No - YOU are talking about the science off in the corner with a few other similarly obsessed nerds.

Everyone else at the party is bored with the science and has moved on to the much bigger topics of Pigolian Carbon taxes, taxing certain "undesireable" industries and economic activity, subsidizing others with public money, redistributing global wealth, etc.- and then throwing out cherry-picked pop AGW "science" as rhetorical support for their various agendas.
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>"When liberals decide there is mileage to be gained for their liberal agendas by aligning with some scientific argument that happens to support it, they are no more or less shy about snatching up that rhetorical weapon for their quiver than are conservatives. "
There is nothing wrong with aligning WITH scientific argument. It is when science is rejected for political purposes that things become problematic.
Nice try at spin and flabbergast but the fact remains that the scientific method is apolitical.
"... the scientific method is apolitical."

Agreed.

Co-opting it for political purposes is not.

Nor is the the scientific method universally applicable to all human and cultural issues and problems - except in the mind of logical positivists like yourself who are only capable of seeing and dealing with the real world through that one lens.

And there is everything wrong with aligning WITH scientific argument when "the scientific method" is hauled out beyond its proper sphere into the political arena, to be used by the POLITICAL contestants as a rhetorical bludgeon to steamroller and suppress other, equally or more valid, viewpoints and and arguments on matters that are not properly matters of scientific inquiry.

Go ahead and do it - but leave your pretended "apolitical" lily-white "scientific" robes at the door when you do.
freaking-crazy

Olive Branch, MS

#30761 Jun 15, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Good gawd. Another teabagger convinced that the entire world scientific community is in cahoots with the ghosts of Mao and Lenin.
I appreciate your attempt to explain the insanity of climate science deniers, but insanity it remains.
Its only people like your self that like 2 through around the word teabagger & think it will make people cower down 2 your point of view .. just like how you & your fellow like minded thinkers think calling one a Racist. It seams like you guyz are the thin skined ones..

If you have an Objection 2 another's point of view you like 2 call names..

That's so Preschool of you.. I thought your Supposed 2be the smart ones..

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#30762 Jun 15, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
I have political actors and bodies like the UN and domestic US governments militating for global wealth re-distribution, redistributive and Pigolian taxation, increased regulation and restrictions in individual free choice in consumption and economic activities, diversion of public monies to fund sective "green" ventures - all overtly citing AGW THEORY as justification for these political and socioeconomic agendas.
So you are saying these actors and bodies are merely theoretical, and do not actually exist? You are denying that they are citing AGW THEORY explicitly as part of, if not the principal basis for their agendas of political and socioeconomic revolution?
If that's a mere "conspiracy theory" to you, then everything is just another conspiracy theory also, and your argument is no argument at all.
<quoted text>
That's your strawman.
No - accept the science, and having recognized it, accept also that it's then largely irrelevant to the REAL and LARGER political and socioeconomic matters at issue.
<quoted text>
I corrected the double-negative in a post immediately following - but you read this as intended.
No - YOU are talking about the science off in the corner with a few other similarly obsessed nerds.
Everyone else at the party is bored with the science and has moved on to the much bigger topics of Pigolian Carbon taxes, taxing certain "undesireable" industries and economic activity, subsidizing others with public money, redistributing global wealth, etc.- and then throwing out cherry-picked pop AGW "science" as rhetorical support for their various agendas.
<quoted text>
"... the scientific method is apolitical."
Agreed.
Co-opting it for political purposes is not.
Nor is the the scientific method universally applicable to all human and cultural issues and problems - except in the mind of logical positivists like yourself who are only capable of seeing and dealing with the real world through that one lens.
And there is everything wrong with aligning WITH scientific argument when "the scientific method" is hauled out beyond its proper sphere into the political arena, to be used by the POLITICAL contestants as a rhetorical bludgeon to steamroller and suppress other, equally or more valid, viewpoints and and arguments on matters that are not properly matters of scientific inquiry.
Go ahead and do it - but leave your pretended "apolitical" lily-white "scientific" robes at the door when you do.
Your entire premise is based upon there being a great conspiracy that encompasses all the respected scientific academies throughout the entire world. If that were to be true, then all is lost! I understand your thoughts in the political arena but heartily disagree that this is driving the study of climate science throughout the world.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#30763 Jun 15, 2012
freaking-crazy wrote:
Its only people..... that like 2 through(sic) around the word teabagger & think it will make people cower down 2 your point of view.....
I love that teabaggers are called the tealiban. It portrays the levels of uneducated self-righteousness needed for people to think destroying civilization is a good thing.

& to think it only involves adding one letter!

Since: Jan 12

Western Hemisphere

#30764 Jun 15, 2012
We can stand to lose a few polar bears, and we don't need that much ice on the north pole anyway. I enjoy warm summers, and lots of sun. I say it's not a big deal - global warming - just something to scare people.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#30765 Jun 15, 2012
GlobeStar wrote:
We can stand to lose a few polar bears, and we don't need that much ice on the north pole anyway. I enjoy warm summers, and lots of sun. I say it's not a big deal - global warming - just something to scare people.
Polar bears haven't done quite as well as humans in the reproduction stakes, but they appear to be in it for the duration, unlikely to disappear any time soon.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#30766 Jun 15, 2012
steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
Polar bears..... appear to be in it for the duration, unlikely to disappear any time soon.
...... says "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" who doesn't have a hi skule deegreee, doesn't have mathematics or science background, believes in one survey & NOT the following critique:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201204090004
Big Chief Tipping Point

UK

#30768 Jun 15, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
...... says "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" who doesn't have a hi skule deegreee, doesn't have mathematics or science background, believes in one survey & NOT the following critique:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201204090004
looks like heap big pile of moose shit from Litesong, he one crazy injun, he no have any degree, only what he learn on reservation. Litesong thinks he get message from Big Spirit in Sky, turns out he drink bad firewater.
Big Chief Tipping Point

UK

#30769 Jun 15, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
I love that teabaggers are called the tealiban. It portrays the levels of uneducated self-righteousness needed for people to think destroying civilization is a good thing.
& to think it only involves adding one letter!
very little thing make this injun very happy, but we know Litesong have very small brain, his momma drop him on head when she crazy drunk on hippy tablets.

Spirit of Woodstock!
IAmDigitap

Los Angeles, CA

#30770 Jun 15, 2012
LoL

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#30771 Jun 15, 2012
dimlite wrote:
<quoted text>
I love that teabaggers are called the tealiban. It portrays the levels of uneducated self-righteousness needed for people to think destroying civilization is a good thing.
& to think it only involves adding one letter!
Funny how, in your own self righteous way, you don't even know how much you don't know. Talk about uneducated. I LMAO that you have no clue how much of a real idiot you are.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#30772 Jun 15, 2012
fishaholic wrote:
Funny how, in your own self righteous way, you don't even know how much you don't know. Talk about uneducated. I LMAO that you have no clue how much of a real idiot you are.
The Dunning–Kruger effect, maybe?
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#30773 Jun 15, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Your entire premise is based upon there being a great conspiracy that encompasses all the respected scientific academies throughout the entire world. If that were to be true, then all is lost! I understand your thoughts in the political arena but heartily disagree that this is driving the study of climate science throughout the world.
Not at all. My entire premise is based only upon the obvious fact that there are long-standing political, social, and economic power struggles going on the world, as old as homo sapiens itself.

Surely you do not deny the truth of this?

As for " ...this is driving the study of climate science throughout the world," I have made no such assertion. I assert only that contestants engaged in the wider political and economic power struggles I refer to have seized upon certain aspects of climate science (which for purposes of this discussion I'm happy to accept is climate science pure as the driven snow, being driven quite independently by whatever drives drives any scientific endeavor) as useful rhetorical weapons to deploy in advancing their political and economic power struggle agendas.

I am aware others on this board have a different view, and feel there is reason to believe the robes of science are not so spotlessly white in this regard, and that the political/social/economic contestants I refer to, having found certain findings of climate science so useful as ammunition, have actively co-opted certain members and organs of the climate science community into spinning up more such "science" ammunition for them, to order.

But I do not have a strong view one way or the other on this question, and I choose to leave it to those others to argue.
IAmDigitap

Los Angeles, CA

#30774 Jun 15, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
I love that teabaggers are called the tealiban. It portrays the levels of uneducated self-righteousness needed for people to think destroying civilization is a good thing.
& to think it only involves adding one letter!
It might have seemed charming several years ago to talk as though you're a loon.

WHEN THOSE WHITE PEOPLE
put YOUR PEOPLE into RESERVATIONS
THEY
SAID
THEY
WERE
DOING
IT FOR THE *GREATER GOOD.*

TODAY when you HELP them PLOT STERILIZING PEOPLE in AFRICA and wherever,
it is NOT for YOUR GREATER GOOD.
IAmDigitap

Los Angeles, CA

#30775 Jun 15, 2012
Cheef INTELLIGENCE-LITE should THINK about the way his FOREFATHERS look on his
LOONY
ACTIONS.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#30777 Jun 15, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. My entire premise is based only upon the obvious fact that there are long-standing political, social, and economic power struggles going on the world, as old as homo sapiens itself.
Surely you do not deny the truth of this?
As for " ...this is driving the study of climate science throughout the world," I have made no such assertion. I assert only that contestants engaged in the wider political and economic power struggles I refer to have seized upon certain aspects of climate science (which for purposes of this discussion I'm happy to accept is climate science pure as the driven snow, being driven quite independently by whatever drives drives any scientific endeavor) as useful rhetorical weapons to deploy in advancing their political and economic power struggle agendas.
I am aware others on this board have a different view, and feel there is reason to believe the robes of science are not so spotlessly white in this regard, and that the political/social/economic contestants I refer to, having found certain findings of climate science so useful as ammunition, have actively co-opted certain members and organs of the climate science community into spinning up more such "science" ammunition for them, to order.
But I do not have a strong view one way or the other on this question, and I choose to leave it to those others to argue.
"Not at all. My entire premise is based only upon the obvious fact that there are long-standing political, social, and economic power struggles going on the world, as old as homo sapiens itself."

Of course, this is the human condition. Exactly how is this a good argument that the science of global warming is wrong.

"I am aware others on this board have a different view, and feel there is reason to believe the robes of science are not so spotlessly white in this regard, and that the political/social/economic contestants I refer to, having found certain findings of climate science so useful as ammunition, have actively co-opted certain members and organs of the climate science community into spinning up more such "science" ammunition for them, to order."

That still reeks of conspiracy. When the actual findings of science are used to support a position, it, of course is much better than those who reject the findings to support an agenda.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#30778 Jun 15, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, this is the human condition. Exactly how is this a good argument that the science of global warming is wrong.
You keep trying to argue a point I've quite clearly and repeatedly said I take no issue with. So take that up with someone else who cares, please.

I've quite happily conceded that for purposes of argument "the science of global warming is right," as far as I'm concerned - so long as we remain within the proper sphere of scientific inquiry.

I'm merely saying that's at most just marginally relevant and pretty much useless in resolving the real issues, which are political, economic, and social ones.
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
That still reeks of conspiracy.
Blow your nose and get over it, then, is all I can suggest.

If what I've posted 'reeks of consiracy' to you, then everything must.
SpaceBlues

Angleton, TX

#30779 Jun 15, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
..
I'm merely saying that's at most just marginally relevant and pretty much useless in resolving the real issues, which are political, economic, and social ones..
OK.

Even a welder, not you, is in this forum to run down science and scientists to the ground. He hates them until the stomach turns.

Why is he into hatred?? Why does he think he can negate science and scientists by posting senseless blogs??
IAmDigitap

Los Angeles, CA

#30780 Jun 15, 2012
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>OK.
Even a welder, not you, is in this forum to run down science and scientists to the ground. He hates them until the stomach turns.
Why is he into hatred?? Why does he think he can negate science and scientists by posting senseless blogs??
WHY DID YOU BELIEVE FOR YEARS, THAT M.A.G.I.C.A.L. TREEMOMITURS and MAGICAL HOCKEY STICKS

had CYFERED the END of CIVILIZATION if BALMY WEATHER broke out?

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#30781 Jun 15, 2012
Voters don't support the BIG GREEN FEAR MACHINE.

Former believers rule!

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