Trans Hate Continues To Lead To Violence

I get really tired about hearing about lesbians who don't want to believe trans women are really women and seem to suspect all of them of simply being straight men with a fantasy of being a lesbian. Can't they be a bit more understanding? Trans people have it even rougher than gay people in many regards.

hate among gays, go figure,trans out?,you got to laugh, separate segregation of gays!?, hehehhaahheheh

John in Ottawa wrote:

I get really tired about hearing about lesbians who don't want to believe trans women are really women and seem to suspect all of them of simply being straight men with a fantasy of being a lesbian.

Some of them hate us transmen too, thinking we're all traitors to womanhood. They just don't get that we're not "butch women who went off the deep end"--we're men, born with male brains.

clone benson wrote:

hate among gays, go figure,trans out?,you got to laugh, separate segregation of gays!?, hehehhaahheheh

Nope, gay and trans are two entirely separate issues. Gay refers who you prefer to be with, trans is the way one identifies.

The oppressed become the oppressors.

It ties in with the news I read this morning about West Virginia and Delaware moving non-discrimination bills out of committee and into the full legislative bodies. The rotten thing is, they dumped trans protection to get the bill through the way Barney Frank did in ENDA in 2007. The trans community was assured, of course, that they will come back for them. Yeah. Right.

We heard the same BS back in 2002, in New York State. I'll give you three guesses what the main GLB political focus has been in NYS for the past 7 years. This kind of, "We got ours, yours can happen whenever" is part of the problem I see between the GLB and the T communities. It has only been in the past couple years that the trans community has been given some more support. More, but we are still #2.

Discrimination and prejudice aren't exclusive faults of the heterosexual culture, unfortunately.

I don't pretend to understand "what" makes Transexuals...but hey..I say Live and Let Live! My partners uncles was married 25yrs,a Union Welder....and out of the Blue decided he was always a woman inside...so he went from Joe..to Morgan literally....he and his x-wife are close friends..and they both seem happy,so thats all that matters.

Realplayer wrote:

That's why lesbians believe that transwomen are not real women. Lesbians believe that transwomen are men who want to invade women's space and usurp women's rights and gains. It's also why Lesbians do not ever call a transwoman a woman, because a transwoman dose not have the right to womanhood and the upbringing of womanhood. They are not biological woman and they do not have the right to being a woman. They also want to make women feel inferior and they also call transmen sell outs and traitors to womanhood.

Nicky, Nicky, Nicky......is your broken record ever going to stop trying to be played? Have you ever gotten the mental health help that so many have said you are in desparate need of? You are such an angry intersexual!!

I don't know. I keep reading about lesbians attacking Transgendered men and women, verbally and physically. I see it in movies, and the half dozen or so transmen/women I've conversed with on the matter all assure me it's quite true.

And I'm so very sorry it is.

Because this 52 year old lesbian has never seen it, and wouldn't tolerate it for a moment should I see it.

As a lifelong feminist I embrace both those women who were mistakenly born in a male body, and those men wrongly born in a female body, and urge them to achieve their maximum potential through whatever means they can find. Just as I do for ALL women, and ALL men. That's what makes me a feminist. I believe in EQUALITY for all people.

And to those whose petty jealousy extends to holding people accountable for living with privilege before announcing who they are, or finding it as a result of their life journey, let me just state for the record that I lived as a straight woman (albeit admittedly a miserable one) for forty years before recognizing myself. The change was startling and immediate. As people learned I was a lesbian everything changed. I was no longer the respectable, twice married/twice divorced school teacher who lived up the road - I became a demon incarnate overnight. The loss of privilege was poignant, to say the least.

Life is hard and pain is pain. We each travel our roads to be the very best selves we can be. It's up to each of us to make the pathways of others as easy as possible, or at the very least, to get out of their way and let them pass.

Nana to Four wrote:

I don't know. I keep reading about lesbians attacking Transgendered men and women, verbally and physically. I see it in movies, and the half dozen or so transmen/women I've conversed with on the matter all assure me it's quite true.
And I'm so very sorry it is.
Because this 52 year old lesbian has never seen it, and wouldn't tolerate it for a moment should I see it.
As a lifelong feminist I embrace both those women who were mistakenly born in a male body, and those men wrongly born in a female body, and urge them to achieve their maximum potential through whatever means they can find. Just as I do for ALL women, and ALL men. That's what makes me a feminist. I believe in EQUALITY for all people.
And to those whose petty jealousy extends to holding people accountable for living with privilege before announcing who they are, or finding it as a result of their life journey, let me just state for the record that I lived as a straight woman (albeit admittedly a miserable one) for forty years before recognizing myself. The change was startling and immediate. As people learned I was a lesbian everything changed. I was no longer the respectable, twice married/twice divorced school teacher who lived up the road - I became a demon incarnate overnight. The loss of privilege was poignant, to say the least.
Life is hard and pain is pain. We each travel our roads to be the very best selves we can be. It's up to each of us to make the pathways of others as easy as possible, or at the very least, to get out of their way and let them pass.

Nana, if only more people could be like you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are a rare and wonderful human being.
It's a simple maxim, but one that few follow: you get what you give. If you want others to respect you and give you the ability to define yourself outside of the norm, you had better be willing to give others the same latitude. Oppression does not excuse being oppressive to others.

Disgusted American wrote:

and out of the Blue decided he was always a woman inside...

I appreciate your support, but it's highly unlikely that she made that decision "out of the blue." It only seemed that way to those around her, but she had probably spent her whole life agonizing over it, as is generally the case with us. Our secret struggle impacts every aspect of our lives from around the age of three. Others are often completely unaware of it.

Nana To Four, it's people like you whom I consider the true spokeswomen of the entire lesbian community. It's the only way I can maintain my vision of unity.

Frankie!!{{{{{{YOU}}}}}}

Are you still happily in love *closing my eyes and crossing my fingers for you!*???

I know you're an avid reader, and I'm hoping sometime over the years you've enjoyed Robert Heinlein's Stranger In A Strange Land. I always think of Valentine Michael Smith learning about humor by watching monkeys at the zoo. A monkey finds something good to eat, but a bigger monkey comes and thumps him on the head and takes it away. The frustrated monkey finds a smaller monkey and thumps him. The third monkey, who had absolutely nothing to do with the original exchange, goes shooting off to find an even smaller monkey, and thumps him.

Unfortunately, too many oppressed people are undereducated, over stimulated, and miserable. They tend to be the ones who kick someone else to make themselves feel better.

Yes, I just said that lesbians who attack trans folk are STUPID, CRAZY AND PATHETIC.

And it's up to any trans person who encounters such a loser to comport themselves with dignity. At least until such time as the gloves come off, and then it's winner takes all so give it all that you've got.

And Wolfgang, baby - I AM a true spokeswoman of the entire lesbian community. I put in the time on the issues, stir up community support, provide entertainment on occasion, attempt to be a role model not only for straights like my two daughters, but for all my lesbian sisters.

So hear me when I tell you that the small, pathetic losers who antagonize, bait, and abuse trans people are only a small segment of a much larger, much more welcoming group of loving women. Please don't judge us all by the actions of our undereducated, over stimulated, and most miserable members. They certainly do not speak for us as a group, and never have. They're punks. Period.

And perhaps most importantly, whenever possible just ignore them, moving on to the beat of your own drummer. Put one foot in front of the other, even when it seems impossible to do so. Just one more step, leaving those unwilling to grow behind you. Your journey is what's important. Not what some dumb, crazy, whack job thinks of you.(I remind myself of this occasionally when the board trolls become particularly obnoxious.)

Realplayer wrote:

That's why lesbians believe that transwomen are not real women. Lesbians believe that transwomen are men who want to invade women's space and usurp women's rights and gains. It's also why Lesbians do not ever call a transwoman a woman, because a transwoman dose not have the right to womanhood and the upbringing of womanhood. They are not biological woman and they do not have the right to being a woman. They also want to make women feel inferior and they also call transmen sell outs and traitors to womanhood.

A bigoted, prejudiced, response on your part, whether you consider yourself to be any of those things or not. Unless you are the creator, then...WHO ARE YOU to judge that anyone else does "not have the right to womanhood, or the upbringing of womanhood", as you put it ?

This indicates that you, just as deeply prejudiced and hatefully bigoted people that far too often attack us, seem to think it some kind of a fetish, ridiculous, nonsensical "lifestyle choice" of some kind.

This is completely errant and damagingly fallacious to the deepest extent.

Example: I am an openly Transexual WOMAN living in regular public society. I was NEVER a gay male, and deeply loved and dated other woman my entire life. I married an incredible woman that is my best friend, soulmate, and angel to my heart and my life until i take my last breath.

Your claim that women like myself: "also want to make women feel inferior and they also call transmen sell outs and traitors to womanhood."
(this is an outright and disgusting lie of generalized judgment, speaking for people you never personally met, by the thousands, that you could not possibly give truthful direct witness for their hearts, minds, and motivations)...

Since i have always loved other women, and also have a deep abiding respect for transmen in general, please explain to me how your statement would be factual and correct other than nasty speculation and distorted assumption, and based on prejudiced beliefs you possibly have learned from others that believe the same entirely incorrect information ?

Most Sincerely and respectfully yours,

I AM,

Maryanne A. Arnow

When i was 4 years old, I was gifted with an all-encompassing, heart and mind wrenching, and crystal clear awareness of my GENDER, as a GIRL.

I mean down to the last detail of my entire self awareness. There is no "off switch" for that.
This could not have been either a choice motivated by "sexuality" or "lifestyle choice" which most probably seems to define your altogether far too narrow and overtly posessive view on this subject. I had no sisters. No sexual abuse. No encouragement in this awareness whatsoever.

I was everything that would have been exceptional to normal for any young girl - extremely mature for my age. Deeply sensitive, deeply compassionate, very emotional. Built physically smaller, and in many ways, differently than any of the male kids in general. No innate sense of male social culture at all. None.

These are all things i did not, nor could have possibly "chosen" as you so disgustingly imply with your hatred, lies, and blatant distortions.
The first 10 years of my childhood resulted in extreme social abuse - physical, mental, emotional, in every way you can imagine - and all for nothing more than being "different". Why would i choose THAT ?

This is not a fetish. This is not my "sexuality". I have no desire to debase any other women in this life, as the precious essence of truly sacred feminine is deeply rooted in MY own being, not yours. My own awareness, to the deepest level of which there has been no way of ever removing it from me, is true and it has never changed in more than 35 years of the deepst anguish and self exploration and struggle you can possibly imagine.
I am not confused about my gender, and never have been.

Unfortunately, yourself and many other people are very confused by it, and instead of ASKING intelligent and compassionate questions to the people you vilify,, you choose bigoted assumtions and entirely judgemental behaviors instead, which only contribuite to further hatred and misunderstanding of your fellow human beings, no matter what gender or sexual orientation we may be.

If i am so confused, then answer this:
Why would I choose to risk losing my marriage to my best friend and soulmate, loss of my home whihc i love, willingly give up all male privilige in society, face total rejection from my own friends and family, as well as her family which i dearly love, willingly face the loss of most, if not all, professional standing in my field of trade, face death threats, ridicule, public harassment, the worst discriminations that you could possibly comprehend, and undertake potentially fatal, or at very least immensely difficult biological changes which i could not even afford, face the extreme scrutiny of medical and phychological screening to rule out any mental defect or psychoses whatsoever, and all for what ?

Just so i can throw on a dress, "call myself a woman", have some sexual "kicks", and debase other women that i consider as kindred spirits to the root of my being ? all for some sexualized "lifestyle choice" ????!!!!!

Give me a break. I am not a threat to you. If you were entirely secure in your own womanhood, and your own femininity, it would never be a threat or an offense to you at all.

YOU ARE INCORRECT IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR OPINIONS, AND IN YOUR PRESUMPTIONS, which have little or nothing to do at all with the facts, and the reality of a life of a woman like myself.

My sincerest apologies for the sharpness of my tone in this response, but you need to wake up and give a little ground to educate yourself better, before you continue to help miseducate others and play stupid games with other people's lives that you have never met, nor known, and cannot therefore give any factual witness to.

Much less, who are you to assume the right to judge, as you have already most assuredly faced disgusting judgement by others in your own life, for things you also could not have possibly chosen.

Sincerely,

Maryanne

Thank you, Nana.

Two trans people were recently assaulted this past week in separate incidents here in New York.

:(

The Lateisha Green murder trial is scheduled to begin today in Syracuse NY. I blogged about that crime here: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com/2009/06/j...

Her murderer is being charged with a hate crime, which is interesting because hate crime law in New York covers sexual orientation but not gender expression or identity. There are two points I'd like to mention regarding this circumstance. First, I suspect the defense will try to remove the hate crimes aspect by pointing out that Lateisha was a transgender woman, not a gay man. Second, the prosecution will have to invalidate her identity and dishonor her memory by referring to her using her male name and male pronouns in order to combat the defense's assertions.

Not only are trans people, trans women and trans women of color the most targeted of the GLBT spectrum in terms of hate and discrimination, they are often denied their very existence even after death by disapproving family or, on this case, discriminatory laws. This needs to stop!

Trans people are victims of a rare and misunderstood neuro-biological birth condition. We suffer the same kind of marginalization and oppression that was once reserved for lepers. I hope public education coupled with good legislation protecting and supporting transgender people comes sooner rather than later.

Emelye Waldherr wrote:

The Lateisha Green murder trial is scheduled to begin today in Syracuse NY. I blogged about that crime here: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com/2009/06/j...
Her murderer is being charged with a hate crime, which is interesting because hate crime law in New York covers sexual orientation but not gender expression or identity. There are two points I'd like to mention regarding this circumstance. First, I suspect the defense will try to remove the hate crimes aspect by pointing out that Lateisha was a transgender woman, not a gay man. Second, the prosecution will have to invalidate her identity and dishonor her memory by referring to her using her male name and male pronouns in order to combat the defense's assertions.
Not only are trans people, trans women and trans women of color the most targeted of the GLBT spectrum in terms of hate and discrimination, they are often denied their very existence even after death by disapproving family or, on this case, discriminatory laws. This needs to stop!
Trans people are victims of a rare and misunderstood neuro-biological birth condition. We suffer the same kind of marginalization and oppression that was once reserved for lepers. I hope public education coupled with good legislation protecting and supporting transgender people comes sooner rather than later.

Amen!

(And also, this thread needs a boot back up to the top for our LGB brothers and sisters to see it.)