Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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““You must not lose faith ”

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#34757
May 5, 2012
 
Double post M114 pg 1618
The point was stated: after reading all this (which is not even 1/3 of all killing for jesus , or in his name. or by his command) as prove of the love f jesus , why would anyone still go for it.

And the other points could be found in the different threads as forwarded by Liam R and one named by me.

In this case G-d is involved as G-d raised his incarnate body from the dead.
.
<I am not ignorant of the mystery of the God of the Bible. However, He is the God of the children of Israel.>
>>again liam points out the mutual cevenant Deuteronomie.

You are obviously ignorant of the fact that G-d is the G-d of the whole world and of all peoples. He will even take from them priests. Below is one of many verses.
.
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
.>> The whole hebrew book uses the past tence.
nation are directly involved nations, and there world means the nations named, which point to people and geographical locations.
This passage again refers to the exodus passage moses aharo and naming from the levites, in this case of those coming back from exile.

All the aspiration of worldwide domination only came with christianity, and abolishing the torah, a child of israel has to be circumcised, the food-aws followed. Well that was no more.
I still maintain that in judaim one is free to question everything, even if jesus was following the law.
To then concluding that he did not.
It's simple, you follow the tenets and philosophy or you follow the tenets of another religion.
Those christian ones prevail for messianics. You are the christian first, jewish second, as in my christanity is superior for i have a closer connection to the torah or some such reasoning.
Which would be like stating that you now have the truly accurate translation of the torah and tanakh, though put in the future tense, so as to make jesus possible.
To me it's as if you are using the hebrew book as an apology, to be whisked away under the sofa as soon as a christian enters your house.
Replacement theology is all it is, because where you live it's more respectable aand less dangerous to be a christian.
Jewish-messianics are considered to be quite confused. Dithering would be the word.
Maybe it has more to do with circumstances and we might simply find that they are christian, but for reasons of citenship or some such notion.
MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#34758
May 5, 2012
 
TO: MAAT, this series is dedicated to you- MUQ

Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method, Dr. Steven E. Jones Part-0 (Introduction- by MUQ)

A. 9/11 a Special Day:

1. September 9, 2001 (9/11 hereafter) was a very remarkable day. It was indeed a day that changed the world. It was a day when the emotions, the patriotism, the bigotry, the hate, the prejudice of many people got over them and they behaved in a very emotional way.

It was indeed a day, on which many laws were broken deliberately or unknowingly. Events which were very improbable and near impossible were accepted as “matter of fact”.

2. People were shocked what they saw in front of their TV screens…. And they were in the same “dazed” state when the “tidal wave” of “news readers”“News analysts” and “experts” appeared from every where, as we see frogs crocking everywhere after heavy rains. They convinced these “dazed” millions that this event took place exactly in the way they saw on TV.

Most people in West, who have “child like” faith in the accuracy, neutrality and exactness of their print, and electronic media took all that heavy dose of propaganda like a medicine and now are so much “cured” that to consider any other possibility is Anathema to them.

B. Plotters Overdid their Job!

3. I think that plotters of 9/11 overdid their job, they wanted to perfect a plot, which was already perfect!! And in doing so they committed blunders!! They forgot that there are basic laws of Physics, Chemistry, Material Science and even common sense!!

What I want to say is, why they had to bring down those WTC towers to their bases? The TV footage was already perfect. Two highest buildings in NY were hit by hijacked jets, scores of people had already died, billowing smoke from WTC Towers was enough to demand retribution and strike by US army and its forces. Most US people would have supported any Government action against those responsible for these cowardly attacks.

5. But these plotters wanted to make the act look like a gala show, pictures of falling WTC towers like a pack of cards would forever be etched in the memory of those who were in front of their TV sets. And this “Grand Finale” has become the source of all their problems!

C. Professional were also watching TV:

6. There were many professionals, watching that fall, scientists, civil engineers, Fire Engineers, Structural Engineers…..and many more (some Terrorists too!!)….. after the initial shock their professional curiosity was aroused and they wanted to explain the fall of WTC towers based on scientific laws and theories…

7. It was here that they got their biggest shocks…..they could not explain almost free fall of three Towers due to a single strike and jet fuel fire !! It seemed that either the laws of physics were wrong or something fishy was there.

D. Tight Lips and Cover Up by Investigating agencies:

8. They got another shock, when they approached Government Investigating agencies to explain their observations and findings. In a free, democratic and scientific society, the agencies would have welcomed this opportunity and tried to explain their views. But they either ignored these requests or refused to comment.

This showed that there was a very high level of coverup by Government and that is how this movement of knowing truth about 9/11 was started.

9. I have serialized a few such reports showing that fall of WTC Towers could not have happened due to a simple jet strike.

MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#34759
May 5, 2012
 
I know it hurts many people, because it shakes their “faith” in the “neutrality, truth, and unbiased view during reporting” of their Media and also the nature of their Government officials and official investigating agencies.

But truth must be told, otherwise people coming 50 or 60 years after us, will question us, as to why we let allow our emotions to get above our scientific built up. Why we accepted the views of “White House and NIST” without checking it and that too, when we were informed that there is some thing wrong in these reports?
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

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#34760
May 5, 2012
 

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"A dog bites because it lives a dog’s life."

Russian saying
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

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#34761
May 5, 2012
 

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"A dog bites because it lives a dog’s life."

Russian saying

““You must not lose faith ”

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#34762
May 5, 2012
 
MUQ (any opinion is the writers own and is not based on any actual real events etc. topix takes to responsibility for ... etc.)wrote:
So according to you ANYTHING that is written before becomes the TRUTH automatically, and anything that is written afterwards becomes the copy or falsehood?

This is a very strange criterion that I heard so far.

Then what we have to say in cases where Christian teachings are different from OT teachings. Who is to be followed, Christian teachings or OT teachings?

Because according to your criterion, since OT books were wrutten earlier, they become ABSOLUTE TRUTH and Christian writings came after that so they become FALSEHOOD as such.

Boy you live in a strange world!!

Or this criterion is ONLY to be used for Quran and not before Quran?

Boy you people do live in a strange world!!
-----
Nah you do.

To clarify. Each book has it's own content.
That content differs from other books even when they claim to be about the same events, or refer to persons or the god involved.
The torah and tanakh do not mention any person as named in the gospel nor any person or god as mentioned in the quraan.
To anyone reading this, it would look cut and dried. So the hebrew book has nothing to do with books of other religions. It's the truth of a particular people.
Yes, full score. Since by the time of completion none of the other existed.

But then this person talks to Xians, muslims, bahia's, messianinics and they all claim that they are having the ownership of that hebrew book.
The translatons being more original and true than the original. The god described is theirs, angels etc. are theirs.
And THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
They kill each other to find out who's absolute is more absolute.

So i could not care less, but for those weird claims. That need f.i. time-travel , but that others simply call fraud without paying authorship.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#34763
May 5, 2012
 
To simplify it even more.
The old testament, a term derisive in itself, since for jews it's still actual, aimed to replace the hebrew book.
The content differs on crucial points, and even here you could follow countless discussions of christians and messianics claiming that they knew better what was written than native hebrew speakers. usually ending is calling the jew a liar because he does not choose for the superior christ.(of all the idiotic things, but that is fundies for you)

It's the same with those that claim the translations and thus interpretations of the quraan are superior to the original (grin, we differ there, i know) that will get you rather upset.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#34764
May 5, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
I know it hurts many people, because it shakes their “faith” in the “neutrality, truth, and unbiased view during reporting” of their Media and also the nature of their Government officials and official investigating agencies.
But truth must be told, otherwise people coming 50 or 60 years after us, will question us, as to why we let allow our emotions to get above our scientific built up. Why we accepted the views of “White House and NIST” without checking it and that too, when we were informed that there is some thing wrong in these reports?
By all means, it's a good one. The dutch produced HD version was used most as illustration.
Officially they are called: The 9/11 comittee. NIST. FEMA.
Those are the reports in contention.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#34765
May 5, 2012
 
34763
Just to clarify the fundies position:
The NT is free of error.
Its Gods Holy Book and God protects it from error.

by sceptic.

So this is the position of messianics too.
So jews have to contemplate whether yhvh is the same god. And if so, did jhvh go browsing through available litterature, and decided to choose this one, and so made it Holy and thus inerrant.

Muslims wonder if Allah is that same god, also doing a revvy on books etc.

And christians wonder since they learned that book was devinely inspired i.e. is honour of god, but who is god. is jesus meant in this case. And does in honour of god, automatically mean inerrant.
or just that the text is set or supposed to be seen as set from here on.

What sceptic meant ofcourse is that it is more true than any other book. That there are no mistakes, and every statement the absolute truth.
Even when it means interpreting former books entirely out of context.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#34766
May 5, 2012
 
Where is my boy Former?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#34767
May 5, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
34763
Just to clarify the fundies position:
The NT is free of error.
Its Gods Holy Book and God protects it from error.
by sceptic.
So this is the position of messianics too.
So jews have to contemplate whether yhvh is the same god. And if so, did jhvh go browsing through available litterature, and decided to choose this one, and so made it Holy and thus inerrant.
Muslims wonder if Allah is that same god, also doing a revvy on books etc.
And christians wonder since they learned that book was devinely inspired i.e. is honour of god, but who is god. is jesus meant in this case. And does in honour of god, automatically mean inerrant.
or just that the text is set or supposed to be seen as set from here on.
What sceptic meant ofcourse is that it is more true than any other book. That there are no mistakes, and every statement the absolute truth.
Even when it means interpreting former books entirely out of context.
rabbee: well somtimes things, start of really good. only to become, a work of fiction later on. wait untill after the originators are dead, so no one will notice.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

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#34768
May 5, 2012
 

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HughBe wrote:
Where is my boy Former?
Why do you grovel so much before others and wish to be close to the so-called first world citizens when it's evident they don't give a damn about you?

You can never be their friend since they view you with disdain for several reasons some which are your Messiah complex, evangelical ways, insistence on Christian leanings in everything you do, effeminate and gay persona, poverty, black skin and third world status among others.

They'll never consider you their equal even if tomorrow you win a lottery ticket and become super wealthy. Let me stress that they hate Christians, Muslims, third worlders and have this naked racism in them.

Months ago, I remember on the other thread you'd begged Papa (Frijoles) to maintain a loving relationship with you and wanted to know where had all the love gone and he sarcastically and firmly replied that you should keep your love in your pants. LOL.

Only if you can prove that you're better than them in every department then they'll grudgingly lay off or keep silent but I doubt if the ready acceptance will be there.

In your long absence, they do ask about you in a mocking and insulting tone.

You come on too strong and in unhealthy and impure ways.

Sorry to say so.

If you have some shame, don't reply to this post.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#34769
May 5, 2012
 

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Joel---Why do you grovel so much before others and wish to be close to the so-called first world citizens when it's evident they don't give a damn about you?

HughBe--- I had to check the meaning of GROVEL because I could not believe that you applied it to me. You should ask Frijoles and Former if I GROVEL before them.

It matters not that they "don't give a damn about you" what is important is that they KNOW THEIR PLACE otherwise I shall have to remind or thrust them back to where they belong.

First-world? what is the meaning of that? You would be surprised at how Jamaicans live, it is not like India.

Joel--You can never be their friend since they view you with disdain for several reasons some which are your Messiah complex, evangelical ways, insistence on Christian leanings in everything you do, effeminate and gay persona, poverty, black skin and third world status among others.

Hugh--- In a very serious way, I would have thought that my " "effeminate and gay persona" would have been a BIG source of attraction for them in very much the same way it attracts you. Both groups no doubt spends a lot of time DREAMING and DESIRING the BIG BLACK BAMBOO.

Economically, I believe that I enjoy a SUPERIOR position to theirs.

"DISDAIN" no one on this forum is in a position to hold me in DISDAIN and such a FOOLISH and MISGUIDED view can only result from a DELUDED mind.

Joel---They'll never consider you their equal even if tomorrow you win a lottery ticket and become super wealthy.

HughBe--- I don't need to win the lotto to be their equal, trust me on that. Usually, SANE people don't desire to LOWER their standards. Get It?

Joel-- Let me stress that they hate Christians, Muslims, third worlders and have this naked racism in them.

HughBe--- I honestly don't THINK that either Former or Frijoles hate Christians or are racists. Frijoles is CLANNISH. Expressions like the Jamaican used by Frijoles and islander tell me that he believes that he occupies a position of superiority because he is from the BIG BAD US. I view his position as a sickness of his country and NOT something unique to him.

Joel---Months ago, I remember you begged Papa to maintain a loving relationship with you and wanted to know where had all the love gone and he sarcastically and firmly replied that you should keep your love in your pants. LOL.

Hugh--- DELUDED

Joel--Only if you can prove that you're better than them in every department then they'll grudgingly lay off or keep silent but I doubt if the ready acceptance will be there.

HughBe--- Proof is given DAILY and is evident to all who are NOT nit-wits and who are honest.

Joel---In your long absence, they do ask about you in a mocking and insulting tone.

HughBe--- It is a reflection of their training.

Joel---You come on too strong and in unhealthy and impure ways.
Sorry to say so.
If you have some shame, don't reply to this post.

HughBe--- I have no reason to be ashamed and so I have responded.
Voluntarist

New York, NY

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#34770
May 5, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
December 31, 2011
Statement by the President on H.R. 1540
Today I have signed into law H.R. 1540, the “National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012.” I have signed the Act chiefly because it authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs that must be renewed. In hundreds of separate sections totaling over 500 pages, the Act also contains critical Administration initiatives to control the spiraling health care costs of the Department of Defense (DoD), to develop counterterrorism initiatives abroad, to build the security capacity of key partners, to modernize the force, and to boost the efficiency and effectiveness of military operations worldwide.
The fact that I support this bill as a whole does not mean I agree with everything in it. In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists. Over the last several years, my Administration has developed an effective, sustainable framework for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected terrorists that allows us to maximize both our ability to collect intelligence and to incapacitate dangerous individuals in rapidly developing situations, and the results we have achieved are undeniable. Our success against al-Qa’ida and its affiliates and adherents has derived in significant measure from providing our counterterrorism professionals with the clarity and flexibility they need to adapt to changing circumstances and to utilize whichever authorities best protect the American people, and our accomplishments have respected the values that make our country an example for the world.
--
I see no other option, since that bill is one solid chunck, purposely done so ofcourse, so anyone would find their back against the wall, or go for an entire new slug-it-out in congress.
Never ending filibustering by the republicans.
We saw the same happen here in holland when certain laws where fused so as to get more money from everybody and less possibilities to protest officially or by way of the courts. And with the excuse that it would be less bureaucracy.
Cute so the president has plausible deniability, this lie that.he is putting off, I just had to sign it.
It only gives hum unheard of executive power to murder us citizens, poor mr president really didnt want to sign it, ya sure I have a bridge for sale you dopes.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

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#34772
May 5, 2012
 

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Pakistan will strike Israel with conventional and nuclear weapons when Iran is attacked by the Zionist state and its pet dog, the US. Israel will find it very difficult to confront Pakistan that has formidable military capacities.
JOEL PASTAKIA

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#34773
May 5, 2012
 

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The entire Middle East will be reduced to a wasteland after the coming great war. The end of Israel nears.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

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#34776
May 5, 2012
 

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World War 3 begins in 2012/2013.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

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#34777
May 5, 2012
 

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China has said it will militarily defend Iran in case the Zionist state attacks Iran. China will polish off Israel like a light snack. Israel stands no chance in a military face-off with China. If the US enters the battle on behalf of its master, Israel, as it will most likely do, it will then have to face the wrath of mighty Russia.

“China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third world war,” said Major General Zhang Zhaozhong in December 2011.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#34778
May 5, 2012
 
MAAT alias MUQ:
From the nasa site, an easy answer (no universes in universes etc)
In the case of a black hole, the Schwarzschild radius is mathematically the radius in at which one would have to be moving at the speed of light in order to escape. Or, the radius that nothing can escape. This is only a function of the mass -- not the density.

Putting the numbers in, the Schwarzschild radius (Rsch) is given by:

Rsch = 3km x Mass; Where the Mass is measured in solar masses.

Now, when do we get a black hole? Answer, when the Schwarzschild radius is bigger than the object we think might make a black hole.

The Sun (Mass = 1 solar mass) is not a black hole because it is bigger than 3 km. If we magically shrunk in down to 3km in radius, then it would become a black hole.

Now back to your question: Why then was the early Universe not a black hole? Well, lets figure out its Schwarzschild radius to get a basic rule of thumb idea of what is going on.

Rsch = 3km x Mass of the whole Universe in solar masses
= about 10 to 100 billion light years
= about the current size of the whole Universe

So, in the basic definition of a black hole I used above (where the size of the object is smaller than the Schwarzschild radius) the whole Universe is one big black hole with us on the inside.

Therefore, the simple answer is that we are inside the event horizon of the whole Universe, and there is no way that we can escape the Universe's grasp.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#34779
May 5, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
It matters not that they "don't give a damn about you" what is important is that they KNOW THEIR PLACE otherwise I shall have to remind or thrust them back to where they belong.
First-world? what is the meaning of that? You would be surprised at how Jamaicans live, it is not like India.

Expressions like the Jamaican used by Frijoles and islander tell me that he believes that he occupies a position of superiority because he is from the BIG BAD US. I view his position as a sickness of his country and NOT something unique to him.

I have no reason to be ashamed and so I have responded.
Jamaica has been described by human-rights groups as the most homophobic place on earth due to the hate speech and bias motivated crimes often directed at LGBT people.[3]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_J...

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