200 Women, Children Removed From Polygamist Camp

This article is about the Fundamentalist LDS Church and not The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day Saints. The FLDS church broke away from the LDS church along time ago. This article shouldn't really be on this forum. It only creates confusion and more misunderstanding about the LDS church.

I was watching Living Hope Ministries Lifting The Veil of Polygamy about a week ago.

I do not see what Warren Jeffs got convicted of was anything like the polygamy Joseph Smith was said to have practiced. Of course i am a Reorganized LDS and we have different perspectives on Joseph smith and polygamy. The online Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy book, and Vision articles is representative of the more traditional position of the church. http://www.restorationbookstore.org The Frequently Asked Questions article gives the official position of my church today. http://www.cofchrist.org/ourfaith/faq.asp...

A few times over the years critics of Joseph Smith accused him of being a pedophile for marrying younger women. FAIR wiki responded to the false charge in a well researched article. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith%27s_mar...

These places are nothing more than a breeding camp for pedophiles how can anyone out there not figure this out how sad for these poor girls that have to experience old nasty men on a physical level when they should be having wonderful innocent fun with there own age group. These men could not even get a woman to look at them if they didn't force them this is just straight up GROSS the visuals have to be horrid for the poor girl that alone would traumatize...UGGGGGG There is a special place in HELL for these type of men or have they justified these disgusting actions as well.. LOL

As long as the girl has no objection what do i care? I only care if rape is involuntarily forced on the girl. Without knowing the man i hate to accuse him of being a nasty old man. Polygamists can be good people to.

If the government is cracking down on the groups misdeeds it is being taken care of atleast in that place. I do not get upset at news items. A lot of bad goes on in the world and i prefer to focus on the positive news that makes me feel good.

I personally do not believe in polygamy. I understand it to be wrong, Scripturally.

However, I do know that old testament kings, including David, had many wives. There are a few verses that put it in the negative, such as Solomon having so many wives that he needed more and more tax money and that the people were crushed by that need, and therefore God ended the one unified kingdom.

But I have to agree that what Michelle says is more likely to be true than naught. If girls in that home/community grew up there from birth, and they saw that sex as a pre-teen or teen with a man was "normal," then how would they be able to consent?

Also, the law in this country is that children do not have the right to give consent until 18. I think that's a very good law as a parent of teens. Teens are so overwhelmed by raging hormones they can't even make good basic desicions, less let major ones like marriage or sex.

I am anti-polygamy myself. I feel God tolerated some polygamy by important Old Testament figures. David and Solomons polygamy he had a problem with. But i doubt the Lord considered all polygamists guilty of being unsaved adulturers or the law would not have allowed any polygamy.(Dent.17,21)

Teen pregnancy is high in this country. I much would rather see a young wed mother than an un-wed one.

It is my understanding the law does allow parental consent for the marriages of teenagers. In these communities the survival of the person is dependent on plural marriage. A teenage girl in that community needs, food, clothing, and shelter provided by her husband. And if her pro-polygamy parents want her married she would be in a worse situation if she remained unmarried. They might kick her out.

robert where are you coming from? No one wins in a polygamous relationship. A girl at 13/14 is not ready physically to bear children without reprocussions. How do you expect her to be any kind of mom? I think we all need to lift those children and mothers up in prayer. I can't begin to imagine what this is doing to those people. I think even the husbands need our prayers. I disagree with the lifestyle on many levels but the people need God in their lives right now.

Anita wrote:

robert where are you coming from? No one wins in a polygamous relationship. A girl at 13/14 is not ready physically to bear children without reprocussions.

Unless the governent can put a stop to marrying underage women some girls will be stuck in a polygamous relationship. I remember an old statistic of 20,000 polygamists in the U.S.alone. If they are stuck in the environment in a polygamous relationship is the best they can get.

Robert Fields wrote:

<quoted text>
If they are stuck in the environment in a polygamous relationship is the best they can get.

clarify please

anonymous wrote:

... This article shouldn't really be on this forum. It only creates confusion and more misunderstanding about the LDS church.

This forum IS "FLDS", not LDS.

These girls have no protection from the government. The government tolerated these activities for many years. If the government wishes to go in as they have done to correct the situation then these girls have a better option. But without the government caring to act becoming married provides these girls food, clothing, and shelter.

Does that clarify what i mean?

I myself favor an amnesty program for the polygamist sects. In exchange for registering all marriages and new marriages with the government the deal is to mostly leave them alone. Set an age limit for the taking of brides. And have government agents there to make sure that bad activities do not go on. Then arrest whoever violates the deal.

The big problem with polygamy laws is it keeps these goings on a secret. The polygamists to protect themselves can do anything they want in secret. And unless the government investigates much they know nothing. I would like to give them a way to end the secrecy.

James Winter wrote:

THE NUMBER THAT WAS AROUND 200 IS NOW OVER 400.
LOOK JUST TO CLEAR THE AIR A BIT MORE..
AS A MEMBER OF THE LDS FAITH..
I HAVE 1 WIFE. I DO NOT WANT 2. I HAVE PLENTY AS IT IS...AS DOES MY WIFE.
SHE DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE SPORTS CRAZED HUSBANDS WHO EAT EVERYTHING IN THE CUPBOARDS...AND I DO NOT NEED TO BUY HOMES OR MOW THE LAWNS OF SEVERAL WIVES...I LOVE MY ONE WIFE AND SHE IS ALL THAT I WILL EVER WANT OR NEED!
POLYGAMY IS NOT IN OUR CHURCH FOR OVER 100 YEARS..IT IS A DEAD ISSUE AND SHOULD REMAIN A DEAD ISSUE!
IF THE FLDS FAITH IS IN THE NEWS PLEASE KNOW TO DISCERN BETWEEN THE TWO BECAUSE THE MEDIA NEVER WILL!

Topix poster local said:

"Um...your church was founded on the principle of polygamy...the guy that started the whole thing claimed to have had a vision of an angel named Moroni (great name by the way) who told him about silver plates buried on his property (that were never seen by anyone but Joseph Smith)...This nutbag somehow convinced his female followers that it was cool for him to have as many wives as possible (even though his wife got pretty pissed at the idea...go figure) and that 12 is the right age to start a family...
The only reason current mormons don't practice this openly is that they had to renounce it due to federal law.
Mormonism and the LDS church is just a silly cult started by a strange and sad little man about 170 years ago."

I'm not judging "you" for your beliefs. I'm simply stating this is the story of the origins of "Mormonism"...

Dyann PACA West- CA wrote:

<quoted text>
Topix poster local said:
"Um...your church was founded on the principle of polygamy...the guy that started the whole thing claimed to have had a vision of an angel named Moroni (great name by the way) who told him about silver plates buried on his property (that were never seen by anyone but Joseph Smith)...This nutbag somehow convinced his female followers that it was cool for him to have as many wives as possible (even though his wife got pretty pissed at the idea...go figure) and that 12 is the right age to start a family...
The only reason current mormons don't practice this openly is that they had to renounce it due to federal law.
Mormonism and the LDS church is just a silly cult started by a strange and sad little man about 170 years ago."
I'm not judging "you" for your beliefs. I'm simply stating this is the story of the origins of "Mormonism"...

Try looking into the truth about what you say. The only thing you got right were the names Joseph Smith and Mormoni. So lets make come corrections. Joseph Smith did recieve GOLD plates from Moroni. These plates were shown to eleven others and their testamonies have been published in every edition of the Book of Mormon. There are also accounts of others who saw the plates, there accounts however are not published with the Book of Mormon. The Plates were in the Hill Cummorah not on his land. While the LAW of the U.S. had the age of marriage at 10 the youngest wife of Joseph Smith was infact 14 and all indications are that those married at this age were NOT consumated at that age. If you are going to tell the story of our founding at least get your basic fact right.

larry wrote:

<quoted text>
Try looking into the truth about what you say. The only thing you got right were the names Joseph Smith and Mormoni. So lets make come corrections. Joseph Smith did recieve GOLD plates from Moroni. These plates were shown to eleven others and their testamonies have been published in every edition of the Book of Mormon. There are also accounts of others who saw the plates, there accounts however are not published with the Book of Mormon. The Plates were in the Hill Cummorah not on his land. While the LAW of the U.S. had the age of marriage at 10 the youngest wife of Joseph Smith was infact 14 and all indications are that those married at this age were NOT consumated at that age. If you are going to tell the story of our founding at least get your basic fact right.

FACTS:
1)The LDS Church has yet to find even one shred of evidence to verify the people or the cities in the Book of Mormon existed. The only testimonies that we find about the Book of Mormon are the testimonies of modern-day men, nothing from the time when those things supposedly took place.
a)Dear Lisa,
Thank you for contacting the National Geographic Society.
The National Geographic Society has not examined the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. We know of no archaeological evidence that corroborates the ancient history of the Western Hemisphere as presented in the Book of Mormon, nor are we aware of empirical verification of the places named in the Book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon is clearly a work of great spiritual power; millions have read and revered its words, first published by Joseph Smith in 1830.
Yet Smith’s narration is not generally taken as a scientific source for the history of the Americas. Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the Society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.
In fact, students of prehistoric America by and large conclude that the New World’s earliest inhabitants arrived from Asia via the Bering land bridge.
(Lower sea levels during ice ages exposed the continental shelf beneath Bering Strait, allowing generations of ancient Siberians to migrate east.) National Geographic carried the article “Hunt for the First Americans” and the map supplement “The Dawn of Humans: Peopling of the Americas” in the December 2000 issue, perhaps on your library’s shelf.
You might want to write the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History and ask for their latest statement on this topic. You can write the museum in care of PO Box 37012, Washington, D.C. 200137012.
I hope this information proves helpful.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Research Correspondence
Smithsonian Institute
10/27/04
b) Why were the 'plates' translated into the "Kings English" of 14th Century use, when it had been a 'dead' language for over 400 years?

I won't bore the rest of the posters with the research that refutes the Mormon 'testimonies'.
They can do that themselves.

“When it became generally known that these important changes had been made in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, many of the brethren objected seriously to it, but they did not want to say much for the sake of peace, as it was Brother Joseph and the leaders who did it. The majority of the members – poor weak souls – thought that anything Brother Joseph would do, must be all right; so in their blindness of heart, trusting in an arm of flesh, they looked over it and were led into error.”

(David Whitmer, one of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, An Address to all Believers in Christ, page 61)

“Is it possible that the minds of men can be so blinded as to believe that God would give these revelations – command them to print them in His Book of Commandments – and then afterwards command them to change and add to them some words which change the meaning entirely? As if God had changed his mind entirely after giving his word? Is it possible that man who pretends to any spirituality would believe that God would work in such a manner?”

(David Whitmer, one of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, Saint's Herald, February 5th, 1887)

Hath he beheld the eternal world, and is he authorized to say that there is only one God? He makes himself a fool if he thinks or says so, and there is an end of his career or progress in knowledge.

(Joseph Smith - History of the Church, Volume 6, Pages 474-475)